Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

IMO, I haven't seen any greater mental/cerebral connection between Rachel and Nick vs. Nick and Vanessa. I almost wonder if that aspect is being judged based on the fact that Rachel is an attorney from a rather impressive educational background, even though Vanessa far as I know, does have a degree as well from a Canadian university.

Because when I watched both dates, I saw Nick having fun with both women and then having honest and heartfelt conversations with both about his fear regarding the process and they both quietly listened. Both dates in my opinion showed people relaxed and comfortable with each other and comfortable just talking to each other.

What I felt was different with Nick and Vanessa is that there seemed to be a greater emotional vulnerability and connection. He was also far more physically responsive to her in that he couldn't seem to stop touching her. And I really honestly have not seen anything so awful in Vanessa's Snapchats and god forbid to be compared to the constantly drinking Kaitlyn.

She snaps constantly her friends, work, family and has some goofy fun with filters. Isn't that what most people do on Snapchat?

@lleyki I just want to say that I tend to hit the 'like' button before I've even finished reading your posts. Always right on the nose.

Maybe it's because we haven't seen much of Vanessa/nick, but it just feels like infatuation to me. I haven't seen them really connect on anything real so far. I know nick cried and Vanessa talked about her grandfather's funeral, but even that seemed so prepared for me. Along with the fact that Vanessa always brings props with her (brought that booklet to the meet and greet we saw in promos, brought that booklet to the group date) that I'm not seeing anything deeper than lust and infatuation. With couples like Shawn/Kaitlyn and JP/Ashley, from the first date, it seemed like they already had such a strong friendship. That's what I feel is missing from what I've seen so far. IMO.

Here's the clip from the volleyball date, for anyone who can't see it on the ABC site.

@crunchycheeto
Good post, IMO. ITA.
The cast is not here to "meet my expectations". Who the heck am I? They are there for their own experience. I am a voyeur in this journey. So meeting my expectations--pulease. Not for me. They aren't here to pay my morgage, babysit, do my housecleaning etc. If they don't entertain me--then I can change the channel and watch something else. JMOAA

Lara wrote:Maybe it's because we haven't seen much of Vanessa/nick, but it just feels like infatuation to me. I haven't seen them really connect on anything real so far. I know nick cried and Vanessa talked about her grandfather's funeral, but even that seemed so prepared for me. Along with the fact that Vanessa always brings props with her (brought that booklet to the meet and greet we saw in promos, brought that booklet to the group date) that I'm not seeing anything deeper than lust and infatuation. With couples like Shawn/Kaitlyn and JP/Ashley, from the first date, it seemed like they already had such a strong friendship. That's what I feel is missing from what I've seen so far. IMO.

But I see so much tenderness, compassion and affection from Nick to Vanessa.

I don't see what's so bad about Vanessa in that clip. For all we know she was just PMS'ing. That can make you make a mountain out of a molehill. I haven't seen her be dramatic or emotionally manipulative so far and even that clip is nothing compared to how Britt acted, yet most seem to now think she's a sweet girl who was just misunderstood during Chris's season (I personally still find her annoying). Everyone has their moments in that environment, unless they don't care at all. JMO.

@crunchycheeto Thanks for posting.

In the clip I hear 3 people - Dani, Vanessa, Nick - talking about the same things but in their own words.  The value of time, the purpose of a date, relationships need to move forward to work.

I like Vanessa (and Danielle) all the more for their honest, passionate expression of emotion for Nick and the relationships transpiring.  Nick wants a woman who will put it all out there for him. She is doing just that.

notarose wrote:In the clip I hear 3 people - Dani, Vanessa, Nick - talking about the same things but in their own words.  The value of time, the purpose of a date, relationships need to move forward to work.

I also noticed that Dani was the one who mentioned having time "taken from you" but based on some of the previous comments, I thought that was all Vanessa. So yeah I saw the clip and I will give whiny and certainly having a "poor me" moment but I didn't see entitled, IMO. She came across as someone having a moment of frustration in the environment.

Maybe it's because we haven't seen much of Vanessa/nick, but it just feels like infatuation to me. I haven't seen them really connect on anything real so far. I know nick cried and Vanessa talked about her grandfather's funeral, but even that seemed so prepared for me. Along with the fact that Vanessa always brings props with her (brought that booklet to the meet and greet we saw in promos, brought that booklet to the group date) that I'm not seeing anything deeper than lust and infatuation. With couples like Shawn/Kaitlyn and JP/Ashley, from the first date, it seemed like they already had such a strong friendship. That's what I feel is missing from what I've seen so far. IMO

It really is subjective because Kaitlyn and Shawn was a couple that I definitely felt like all I was seeing was lust and infatuation. Yes I know they're still together but on the show, they were hot mess of him needing constant reassurance and validation, her constantly weeping about it and them making out.

Meanwhile, the strong friendship is exactly what I felt made Nick and Vanessa so appealing and stand out on their date. While Nick and Vanessa kissed a lot on their date, most of it was romantic and passionate as opposed to slobbery intensity. And a lot of it was more gentle kind of kissing, like him kissing her forehead, her cheek, lightly caressing her back, neck, etc. None of that IMO screamed, "prelude to sex" which is how I categorize people who are simply in lust and infatuation with each other.

Yes, we didn't see them discuss amazing world issues because that is not that show. But Vanessa's comments to Nick when she confronted him about his behavior with Corinne made it clear that we didn't see everything they talked about that night. She mentioned him telling her his concern about being judged as the lead. I think that is significant for a lead to share his fears and concerns with a contestant like that on their first date. They're supposedly chasing him. He could just act super confident and as the prize. But that's not Nick of course and his willingness to share these things with Vanessa is significant in my opinion.

@lleyki Yes!  I totally agree with you. I loved how you explained Nick's emotional openness with Vanessa being about his own feelings/thoughts.  He is letting his guard down with her in a more substantial way than with any of the other woman.  That is key in the significance of how he feels about her. It reveals that he is beginning to trust her, which is the foundation of any strong relationship.