Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - Media SM Vids - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #4

IMO you can't watch this show with Jung/ Freud text in your lap
it's a silly show that has a man at the helm (MF) who had recording 
of barking dogs directed at his neighbor to deliberately drive
them up a wall. Because I'm a Vanessa fan and not a Nick fan
I can see her frustration with him. He's a tool and fool IMO 
I don't feel they're together.  

sdmom wrote:I enjoy reading opinions from everyone, so even though I may not agree with all posts, please continue to post what you think! (...)

 

I'd like to add, that personally this season isn't so "emotional" as I first predicted it to be, since it's Nick's (and strangely I'm not invested). I observe Nick and his behavior, I'm "judging" him. The girls come 2nd. (usually I would be focused more on the contestants) If I pick a girl I "like", I'll pick Danielle M ... but she isn't for Nick and Nick isn't "into her". I like Rachel a lot from little that I've seen, but I've also "seen/heard" few "red flags" during her 1 on 1 with Nick, maybe because I've paid better attention to their time, knowing the outcome, so I'm starting to form an opinion why I believe she isn't "right" for Nick either. At the end, he picked Vanessa, whether I like her or not isn't really relevant, since it's his taste and his "piece of mind" deciding, but the fact that his "gut feeling" about her kicked in from the M&G moment and their "chemistry" was instant and clearly visible makes me believe that she was/is the "right pick".
Now, that I've stated how similar Nick and Vanessa appear to be (character) ... and since I like him ... I cannot not like her, even if I know very little about her (and as I wrote in her thread at the beginning of the season: there will be embarrassing, worth-cringing moments)
... to me they are almost equals (almost, since he's been overly-analyzed for the last 3 years) ... both have their flaws ... but together they make sense to me.

Love the visual of MF. He is such a barking dog!

Did anyone else feel like the Rachel quote of 'I don't feel comfortable with this' didn't fit with the commercial?

happygolucky wrote:

sdmom wrote:I enjoy reading opinions from everyone, so even though I may not agree with all posts, please continue to post what you think! (...)

 

I'd like to add, that personally this season isn't so "emotional" as I first predicted it to be, since it's Nick's (and strangely I'm not invested). I observe Nick and his behavior, I'm "judging" him. The girls come 2nd. (usually I would be focused more on the contestants) If I pick a girl I "like", I'll pick Danielle M ... but she isn't for Nick and Nick isn't "into her". I like Rachel a lot from little that I've seen, but I also "saw/heard" few "red flags" during her 1 on 1 with Nick, maybe because I've payed better attention to their time, knowing the outcome, so I'm starting to form an opinion why I believe she isn't "right" for Nick either. At the end, he picked Vanessa, whether I like her or not isn't really relevant, since it's his taste and his "piece of mind" deciding, but the fact that his "gut feeling" about her kicked in from the M&G moment and their "chemistry" was instant and clearly visible makes me believe that she was/is the "right pick".
Now, that I've stated how similar Nick and Vanessa appear to be (character) ... and since I like him ... I cannot not like her, even if I know very little about her (and as I wrote in her thread at the beginning of the season: there will be embarrassing, worth-cringing moments)
... to me they are almost equals (almost, since he's been overly-analyzed for the last 3 years) ... both have their flaws ... but together they make sense to me.

Totally agree that I enjoy hearing/seeing other's opinions - partly why I wanted to throw my unconventional views into the mix to see if there are other divergent views out there

would love to hear more of your thoughts if you don't mind sharing?
What are your current thoughts on the F3 and their match with nick as well as specifically about nick?

@emusha give me 1 more week, I still have to watch the last 2 episodes and the rest entirely to be clear where I'm leaning. But to go back to your previous post about having "hopes" of liking Vanessa ... I also thought that I'd be all "hearts" over her, but I'm not... I do like her, but she isn't the most likeable of bunch. I think my "colder" feelings have something to do with not being "Nick-addicted" anymore. In his previous seasons I often found myself "defending" or explaining his actions, "fighting for him", since I believed him to be misunderstood or negatively judged just because of the "tone of the edit". But then I've realized that I was playing someone else's "game". And, JMO, Nick can't fool me (I know, presumptuous of me) ... so I'm here for the support, but not "fighting anyone's battles", since clearly nobody asked.

When was the other 'meltdown' at?  In Bimini or this episode?  With her and Danielle M crying in the hotel room?

@happygolucky cool! Please tag me or PM me once you do would love to read. I'm also lukewarm about Nick and relate with your process of cooling down on him.

With other contestants, I try to take them as they come rather than hoping my expectations into them. Interestingly, that path for me started with Ali who I adored then significantly cooled down on then Andi, Kaitlyn, Nick... It's valuable to go in with expectations of big flaws - because ppl with such flaws also deserve love! We're all flawed anyways

Bringing my post over from the Episode 6 Thread:

I didn't see anything different in that clip than what we see during mid-season ever so often where contestants breakdown and feel like their relationship might have stalled because they are not getting any time.

IMO Danielle M nailed it when she said in that clip that "Because in this whole environment, it is all about how much time you have. And when you don't get that time and that time is taken from you, its like..there goes your shot". IMO I would not be supportive of Vanessa and Danielle M crying if this was week 2 or week 3 and there were 10-15 women on these competitive group dates. But when it's down to 6 ppl on a grp date where 3 are going to get extra time (and this is not the 10-15 min cocktail party, this is half a day I am talking about), I can see why they would be frustrated that their relationship might stall without that time while others progress.

Personally, I don't see Vanessa being entitled at all. I don't even see Vanessa, Danielle M and Jasmine crying as a manipulative tactic. There was no saying that Nick would keep them if they cried. I just see 3 frustrated woman who are going to miss on half a day with the lead when they are 1 week away from HTD.

All JMO.

IMO, I don't think any of these people need defending or one has to love them or have high expectations. They're all flawed human beings that we are seeing in a manufactured and manipulated environment. Some will be unaffected no matter what and they're the lucky ones, some will break at some point and get judged for it and some of them are maybe not nice people outside of this environment and that will be the case no matter what. All my opinion of course.

emusha wrote:I don't mean domineering in that self-assured and assertive sense -- I find her to be attention-grabbing and melodramatic to watch. There's something about how she sucks him in that's emotionally intense, whiney, dramatic and entitled that I don't enjoy. I don't mean regarding her dynamic with the other women. MHO

I totally agree with you as per the bold. I said it  Vanessa thread that some of her character traits has Kaitlyn tendencies the more I watch her sm post particularly her Snapchat, and that crap is what Nick claims he wants in a woman. I remember he once described Kaitlyn as unapologetically herself and he likes how she gives zero f$cks.

Am also yet to see the intellectual and cerebral connection between Nick and Vanessa. For me Rachel would be my pick for him but it is not my choice.

Vanessa not being the most liked doesn't mean she's least deserving to win or that she's a disappointing F1, IMO. On paper, there may be personality traits that we can say won't mesh well with Nick's in the real world. But that reminds me of MTV's Are You The One and how AWFUL they are at pairing their perfect matches. Personality quizzes and in-depth interviews can maybe predict if two people will get along, but it's not a guarantee. That's because no one can really predict chemistry between two people. We can say that someone who's more grounding and less passionate/dramatic is better for someone like Nick, but nothing 'rational' or 'logical' can account for the natural chemistry he has with Vanessa. Not to say that he didn't have chemistry with Rachel, because I think he did. But someone mentioned here that with Rachel, it looked like a first date where there was excitement and hope (great Bachelor 1-on-1); whereas with Vanessa, it looked like they had been together for a long time and I think that's part of the reason why Nick seemed so caught off guard by what he was feeling on that rooftop. I'm not a sappy person at all. But I could sense something powerful and rare in Nick and Vanessa's connection during that date. I don't know if it will be sustainable. No one knows for sure. But I do think that intensity is a huge reason why Nick made his final choice. Bottom line: his decision simply had nothing to do with V's likability.

A number of people here are saying Vanessa hasn't met their expectations before the season aired. To be fair, the expectations were pretty damn high so I can see why there's some disappointment across the board (pun intended?). But I do think that those expectations also may be the reason why the criticisms are relatively harsher compared to other contestants. IMO.

Expressing frustration and crying about possibly missing out on an entire evening portion of a date is pretty commonplace this far into a season, and yet it's described as being whiny and bratty. It's not the most level-headed reaction and I can see why some may perceive it as overdramatic, but it's a natural response to losing a game and losing the subsequent opportunities that come from winning. For the record, I don't think they were missing out on just 15-20 minutes of time with Nick. Perhaps if there were 15 women on the group date; but with six -- I'd imagine they'd have a little more time with the lead. Correct me if I'm wrong. One-on-one time is already so scarce that the idea of it being 'taken away' (especially when you're under the assumption at the start of a group date that you're there until the evening) would be a major source of frustration. If you just shrugged your shoulders and turned around to head back to the hotel, it indicates that you understand this is a competition but it reveals that you don't really care enough to be emotional about it.

*deep sigh*

If you've made it this far, all these words are my opinion.