Ben Higgins - Lauren Bushnell - Bachelor 20 - Discussion - #4

As I've been saying for weeks now, and have been thinking for months: Though, I like Ben and Lauren (less than before, but I still do), I don't see how they won't get married. Only because it seems they have made a decision in their minds that they are going to be together. It's kind of like what Alanna has been saying: they're comfortable together, it's easy, they both like the same things, they have the same type of families, it's simple. In broken down terms: it could be seen as settling. That's just the impression I've been getting though. All IMO.

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:As I've been saying for weeks now, and have been thinking for months: Though, I like Ben and Lauren (less than before, but I still do), I don't see how they won't get married. Only because it seems they have made a decision in their minds that they are going to be together. It's kind of like what Alanna has been saying: they're comfortable together, it's easy, they both like the same things, they have the same type of families, it's simple. In broken down terms: it could be seen as settling. That's just the impression I've been getting though. All IMO.

I think this is most relationships though. Including most (all?) of the other franchise couples. I think if you believe in some mystical all consuming, all encompassing true love Romeo and Juliet kinda thing born at the hands of Fleiss on Reality TV... well....

Most (all?) of the successful couples just made a commitment. Were comfortable, loved each other, matched on paper, liked the same things, had the same goals and just made it work.

ReneeM wrote:

Newt wrote:I personally find it odd that some are questioning B&L decision to spend Christmas day apart, when just a month ago, they publicly announced their holiday plans.

I don't really don't follow them that closely but if I saw this a month ago I would've stated THEN that I thought it was weird/ugly that they couldn't come to a consensus that would have them spending their first Christmas together.  The really simple solution would be to spend x amount of time in portland/indiana, and the rest with the other side. The fact that they couldn't or were unwilling to do that just sends off a little warning bell to me. This doesn't mean I think there's some breakup announcement impending or anything, it's just something that raises an eyebrow. All JMO.

Included in my previous post was the "availability of flights from Warsaw to Portland". It's holiday season after all. People are travelling. It might be that Lauren can't find a flight that would allow her to spend longer time with Ben's family before heading to Portland. IMO, the only thing that will raise my eyebrow is, if Ben and Lauren both decided to not spend ANYTIME with either family, together or not.

sosleepy wrote:

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:As I've been saying for weeks now, and have been thinking for months: Though, I like Ben and Lauren (less than before, but I still do), I don't see how they won't get married. Only because it seems they have made a decision in their minds that they are going to be together. It's kind of like what Alanna has been saying: they're comfortable together, it's easy, they both like the same things, they have the same type of families, it's simple. In broken down terms: it could be seen as settling. That's just the impression I've been getting though. All IMO.

I think this is most relationships though. Including most (all?) of the other franchise couples. I think if you believe in some mystical all consuming, all encompassing true love Romeo and Juliet kinda thing born at the hands of Fleiss on Reality TV... well....

Most (all?) of the successful couples just made a commitment. Were comfortable, loved each other, matched on paper, liked the same things, had the same goals and just made it work.

Yeah that's true, but as I said above, I think they long ago made the decision of knowing they were going to be together no matter what. And I don't think that decision came from a place of #truelove, but moreso acceptance. Acceptance of their situation, ideals, goals, what's expected of them, what they believe to be right. They obviously love each other and what not, but I think they're just kind of..there in their relationship. As I said a few days ago in regards to ppl thinking there is trouble in paradise, I don't feel they are as happy as many ppl think they are/or how they are being perceived to be, but I don't neccesaily think there are any problems either. It's just..there. I can't think of any others words to use at the moment All of this is just IMO.

IMO, B&L's relationship being perceived as not that happy or there is trouble in paradise is the result of them not being overly open in sm especially after filming HEA.

^ I don't think so. As Ben and Lauren have continously been using Twitter, IG, and IG stories/Snapchat lately. And my perceiving they're not as happy as ppl believe they are/perceive to be has nothing to do with their lack of social media, which isn't really lacking, but moreso their personalities, individually and together (which was viewable on their show.) And yes, most of the storylines on that show were scripted, but there's no script for personalities. IMO.

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:^ I don't think so. As Ben and Lauren have continously been using Twitter, IG, and IG stories/Snapchat lately. And my perceiving they're not as happy as ppl believe they are/perceive to be has nothing to do with their lack of social media, which isn't really lacking, but moreso their personalities, individually and together on their show. IMO.

You're probably right. But IMO, months before HEA premiere, whenever Ben or Lauren post on sm (IG, Snapchat or Twitter), it represents B&L as a solid and a happy couple. But during and after HEA, a "reality show" that presented their relationship not in a good way, it made viewers and even fans questioned them as a couple. Now that they are done filming, I can see the difference of them being open publicly to sm from 3 -5 months ago to now. I think they learned something from the experience they've had when HEA is airing, when all sorts of criticism about them as a couple and as an individual is all around social media. When The Bachelor ended, all we've got are headlines that they broke the engagement and Ben is back together with J. But even then, not so many people believed it. But now that they displayed their relationship to the public and with the storyline that Ben call off the wedding, people where lead to think that there is "trouble in paradise or they're not that happy". And right now after HEA, when we see negative headlines about them, readers, fans, etc tend to buy the story and conclude that there is really trouble bet. them because we all left HEA with uncertainty about B&L. HEA was made for people to see that B&L have issues and they are not a perfect couple but the show also displayed the love bet. the two. IMO, there is no question if they really love each other, you can clearly see and feel it. Probably the only reason they got the show, because no matter what the story line is, most people will never doubt and questioned if Ben and Lauren truly love each other.

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:

umngirl wrote:Being that they are both Christians (at least I think. I've never followed her or heard her religious affiliations) Christmas is a pretty big holiday. I know all my engaged/married family and friends always spend the day together and include a trip to church in there as well.

I still don't see why they couldn't have spent x number of days in Indiana and then traveled together to Portland to spend x number of days there. They still get to celebrate with both families and spend the holidays together. It seems like a nobrainer solution. But what do I know. Lol

The last paragraph, thats what they said they're doing.

But they are not apparently. They didn't fly to Portland together. Lauren left already to spend days there separately while Ben is in Indiana still.

Regarding the social media stuff, Ben and Lauren at times have posted complimentary things of one another on SM and then the flow of negative comments come in. Ben just using the word beautiful for Lauren causes a debate. I get the whole 'they choose to read' comments or 'they signed up for this' deal but any normal functioning person would see a pattern and choose to affirm their love and commitment off of social media. Why would Ben or Lauren need to write an essay to each other when they can just tell each other? Especially because they just spent July-October attached at the hip. I've never expected a "I miss you" or "I can't wait to see you again" because they are gonna say it to each other not the world.
For all we know they could be regretting this decision they made for Christmas or they could be very happy because when they are reunited they will have spent time apart from in laws and over the moon happy to see each other.

sosleepy wrote:

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:As I've been saying for weeks now, and have been thinking for months: Though, I like Ben and Lauren (less than before, but I still do), I don't see how they won't get married. Only because it seems they have made a decision in their minds that they are going to be together. It's kind of like what Alanna has been saying: they're comfortable together, it's easy, they both like the same things, they have the same type of families, it's simple. In broken down terms: it could be seen as settling. That's just the impression I've been getting though. All IMO.

I think this is most relationships though. Including most (all?) of the other franchise couples. I think if you believe in some mystical all consuming, all encompassing true love Romeo and Juliet kinda thing born at the hands of Fleiss on Reality TV... well....

Most (all?) of the successful couples just made a commitment. Were comfortable, loved each other, matched on paper, liked the same things, had the same goals and just made it work.

Of course, each marriage is a commitment, however, in my "preference," there has to be an emotional bond and human attachment in a romantic relationship, it's not just a business transaction. Preference really isn't the right word, I don't know what is though, sorry Anyway, that's what I see with these two and have from day 1: he is happy to have a beautiful trophy, and he just checks her husband boxes so why the he!! not form a little corporation for shilling purposes? Nothing at all to do with their emotional/human bond imo.

Maybe that relationship suits both of them, I can't tell, but what I see is not "clearly and obviously love" for each other.

Ben has been putting his needs over Lauren's since the moment they met imo. Even filming the show itself puts $ and attention and everything else over her and the relationship. And idk what her deal is, but maybe she's just not a very warm and emotional person and I think he may need that. This is likely where his hesitation for marriage comes from imo. He may not run a successful "business" with an emotionally attached girl, but she'd have that tie to him and only him, not any man who fulfills boxes A-K on her spreadsheet, and a coddled only kid, he is likely missing that.

Again, maybe a relationship where they spend holidays apart, are casually selfish as a rule, roll their eyes at each other, etc., but run a healthy corporation is just fine, and the shilling will turn into running a successful house one day in the sense that they will pay their bills, take vacays and raise 2.5 littles. It's just not what I (literally me, Alanna!) prefers/likes and roots for.

@Alanna I totally disagree with your assessment that there is no love between this couple. For every clip of Lauren rolling at her eyes and then some, there is also a clip of Lauren and Ben acting loving towards each other. Lauren beaming, gushing to the camera that she can't think about Ben and not smile, she loves him so much. Lauren tearing up, genuine emotion telling Ben that he's the love of her life and she can't live without him, her genuine fear when he went after the bear in the camping episodes.  Ben telling Lauren she's the love of his life, the way he still (STILL!) looks at her like the sun shines out her behind, his genuine emotion on the show over hurting her and not wanting her to feel the wedding business was any reflection on his feelings towards her. When he got choked up at his "bachelor party" cause he missed Lauren. When he was supporting her over her blog, telling her he was there for her, not to be worried and that she could totally do this.  The show was scripted up the butt, but all of these moments are just a few instantly pop into my head as genuine, unscripted, real emotion moments that showed me their love. They had real issues on this show (postponing a wedding and cold feet),  but they still treated each other with love and respect, both ways, the entire time. They were able to have real issues that could easily break couples up, but still show love and compassion towards each other. Lauren wanted to understand where Ben was coming from. Ben wanted Lauren to still feel loved.

As for the shilling brand, they ALL create shilling brands. Ben, IMO, actually shills far, FAR less than your average. Like hardly at all. Lauren shills in her blog. They don't really shill together at all. Outside of the show. Which I'm hoping was a one and done and everyone can move on. So IMO I think it's unfair to say they are together just for their brand. I disagree with that.

I do agree that perhaps Ben needs to put Lauren first more often. I think he's still a little emotionally immature at times. Lauren, I believe from what I see of her puts Ben first constantly. I think she's ready to go all in on this. Ben needs some time for growth or something.

I think there *is* love but they may not express it like we're used to seeing. Neither of them are passionate or excited people IMO.