Bachelor 21 - Nick Viall - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

Fingersandtoes wrote:I don't get it, was Nick supposed to fake it with Jen and continue dating her if he wasn't feeling it? He acknowledges she's amazing, but just not for him. Isn't it better that she gets to find someone who will have romantic feelings for her, instead of being with Nick who wasn't feeling it? That's what dating is.

But didn't he continue dating her long distance after filming ended anyway (at least until he found out he definitely got the gig as the next Bachelor)?  What's fishy to me is that in past seasons of BIP, there were couples who went to the FRC and didn't get engaged or declare undying love for each other, but exchanged roses and agreed to continue to date in the real world.  Why was this season different, did producers tell Nick that was no longer an option?  Was the reason it was no longer an option because the idea of "Nick as the Bachelor" was already in the cards, and therefore, he needed to cut ties with Jen (on screen if not in reality)?  His kiss off of her, including his comments in the limo were a clear set up for him being the next lead, coincidence or not?  Regardless of what everybody (Nick, Luke, the producers) claims, I still have my suspicions about how the decision really came to be.  Of course Luke doesn't really know anything more than what he was told (lied to?), and neither the producers nor Nick would admit that the possibility of this was in the works all along, because it looks disingenuous, to say the least.

I don't know when, how, or why the decision was made to cast Nick, I'm just glad it was. As for giving a rose to suggest dating outside of the show, maybe it isn't an option. There sure was a mass exodus before the FS overnights. I'm just glad Nick stayed true to himself, and didn't put a ring on it, because he felt it was expected of him. If it isn't there, it isn't there. Also, we have NO idea if they continued to date long distance. With the exception of getting together once, Nick remained on the west coast, and Jen on the east coast. As Kasha once mentioned, both of them are upwardly mobile people, if they both wanted to get together, they would and could have. It doesn't appear that was the case.

ironcat wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:I don't get it, was Nick supposed to fake it with Jen and continue dating her if he wasn't feeling it? He acknowledges she's amazing, but just not for him. Isn't it better that she gets to find someone who will have romantic feelings for her, instead of being with Nick who wasn't feeling it? That's what dating is.

But didn't he continue dating her long distance after filming ended anyway (at least until he found out he definitely got the gig as the next Bachelor)?  What's fishy to me is that in past seasons of BIP, there were couples who went to the FRC and didn't get engaged or declare undying love for each other, but exchanged roses and agreed to continue to date in the real world.  Why was this season different, did producers tell Nick that was no longer an option?  Was the reason it was no longer an option because the idea of "Nick as the Bachelor" was already in the cards, and therefore, he needed to cut ties with Jen (on screen if not in reality)?  His kiss off of her, including his comments in the limo were a clear set up for him being the next lead, coincidence or not?  Regardless of what everybody (Nick, Luke, the producers) claims, I still have my suspicions about how the decision really came to be.  Of course Luke doesn't really know anything more than what he was told (lied to?), and neither the producers nor Nick would admit that the possibility of this was in the works all along, because it looks disingenuous, to say the least.

Yes, they dated a few weeks long distance after the filming ended. And the spark wasn't there for him to continue. Many leads have done the same. Ben had something going with Tenley, Kaitlyn with Nick etc. I'm pretty sure Nick saw these people find 'their person' on their season, and chose to accept the Bach offer for the chance of finding someone he'd have it all with, instead of continuing long distance with Jen, with whom it wasn't there.

Nick considers Ben one of the most genuine guys he knows, truly a nice person. And Ben could've continued dating Tenley off the show for 'on paper' perfect match, but Ben chose the chance of finding his person on bachelor, and found Lauren. Nick has seen all this happen close up, it might be one of the reasons he took the offer. Jmo.

I turn the question around ... if Nick had proposed to Jen would she have said "yes" ... or turn him down? ... (and he would be a 3rd time dumpee) ... I would so like to see that scenario play out, and what a joke would then it be... nah, good for Nick going with his gut ... and good luck to Jen.

Fingersandtoes wrote:snipped


Yes, they dated a few weeks long distance after the filming ended. And the spark wasn't there for him to continue. snipped Jmo.

RE the bold, do we know this for a fact? TYIA

Fingersandtoes wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:I don't get it, was Nick supposed to fake it with Jen and continue dating her if he wasn't feeling it? He acknowledges she's amazing, but just not for him. Isn't it better that she gets to find someone who will have romantic feelings for her, instead of being with Nick who wasn't feeling it? That's what dating is.

But didn't he continue dating her long distance after filming ended anyway (at least until he found out he definitely got the gig as the next Bachelor)?  What's fishy to me is that in past seasons of BIP, there were couples who went to the FRC and didn't get engaged or declare undying love for each other, but exchanged roses and agreed to continue to date in the real world.  Why was this season different, did producers tell Nick that was no longer an option?  Was the reason it was no longer an option because the idea of "Nick as the Bachelor" was already in the cards, and therefore, he needed to cut ties with Jen (on screen if not in reality)?  His kiss off of her, including his comments in the limo were a clear set up for him being the next lead, coincidence or not?  Regardless of what everybody (Nick, Luke, the producers) claims, I still have my suspicions about how the decision really came to be.  Of course Luke doesn't really know anything more than what he was told (lied to?), and neither the producers nor Nick would admit that the possibility of this was in the works all along, because it looks disingenuous, to say the least.

Yes, they dated a few weeks long distance after the filming ended. And the spark wasn't there for him to continue. Many leads have done the same. Ben had something going with Tenley, Kaitlyn with Nick etc.  I'm pretty sure Nick saw these people find 'their person' on their season, and chose to accept the Bach offer for the chance of finding someone he'd have it all with, instead of continuing long distance with Jen, with whom it wasn't there.  

Nick considers Ben one of the most genuine guys he knows, truly a nice person. And Ben could've continued dating Tenley off the show for 'on paper' perfect match, but Ben chose the chance of finding his person on bachelor, and found Lauren. Nick has seen all this happen close up, it might be one of the reasons he took the offer. Jmo.

I'm confused, did Ben and Tenley appear together on BIP?  My point is that in past seasons on BIP, couples went to the FRC and didn't get engaged, but didn't break up either.  Examples of this are Nick/Samantha, Michelle/Cody, and Justin/Cassandra.  None of those couples lasted more than a few weeks/months after airing I don't think.  Why didn't Nick and Jen go this route? Since Nick did continue to date Jen for a few weeks after filming, he obviously liked her enough to want to continue the relationship to some degree.  That's what I'm questioning, whether his breaking up with her, as opposed to just leaving it as a "let's see where this might go in the real world", was orchestrated by production because of an agenda that they had (which Nick may have been privy to).  IOW, maybe he was told by them, "There's still a possibility you might be cast as the Bachelor, but in order to remain in contention, you have to dump Jen on camera.  Continue to date her after filming if you wish, and we'll let you know what we decide.  See ya!"  I sure wouldn't put it past them.

IDK it kind of seems like this season, Producers were pushing engagements or nothing. Otherwise I doubt they would have gotten 3 engagements. It;s too crazy that 3 would propose if they were;t strongly encouraged to either Breakup or get engaged. jmo.

ironcat wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:I don't get it, was Nick supposed to fake it with Jen and continue dating her if he wasn't feeling it? He acknowledges she's amazing, but just not for him. Isn't it better that she gets to find someone who will have romantic feelings for her, instead of being with Nick who wasn't feeling it? That's what dating is.

But didn't he continue dating her long distance after filming ended anyway (at least until he found out he definitely got the gig as the next Bachelor)?  What's fishy to me is that in past seasons of BIP, there were couples who went to the FRC and didn't get engaged or declare undying love for each other, but exchanged roses and agreed to continue to date in the real world.  Why was this season different, did producers tell Nick that was no longer an option?  Was the reason it was no longer an option because the idea of "Nick as the Bachelor" was already in the cards, and therefore, he needed to cut ties with Jen (on screen if not in reality)?  His kiss off of her, including his comments in the limo were a clear set up for him being the next lead, coincidence or not?  Regardless of what everybody (Nick, Luke, the producers) claims, I still have my suspicions about how the decision really came to be.  Of course Luke doesn't really know anything more than what he was told (lied to?), and neither the producers nor Nick would admit that the possibility of this was in the works all along, because it looks disingenuous, to say the least.

I personally don't think he knew nor thought he was going to be the bachelor when he broke up with Jen on BIP or for a while after.

The reason I don't think he knew until very late in the game that he got the gig is due to his sister's comments on the Milwaukee interview she did, Jen's mom's comments on here, GA's post last night on here, Luke's interview with US Weekly, RS being fooled, and really the reaction of every Bach alumni.

Do I think he had an idea he was being considered - yes I do, however I don't think he really believed it due to what happened last year and the fact that a LOT of people wanted Luke. Plus there was an interview with Ashley I were she said she asked Nick if he thought he could be the bachelor and his response to her (her words) was "would never happen, they never pick off of BIP, plus over-saturation and over exposure (him being on so many of the shows) etc.)." Nick is a smart and analytical guy so these logical thoughts make sense to me as very good arguments as to why he would not be picked - they have never picked the lead off of the spin off - ever - so to me if I were Nick and the producers were spouting stuff in my ear these reasons alone would make me to not think much of their discussions.

In terms of the relationship between Nick and Jen based on sleuthers on here we believe they did see each other early July before the premiere of BIP, but we couldn't find any other indication (but obviously could be wrong). RS has indicated (while not the bible but a source none the less) they were not in an exclusive relationship but were very close and spoke every day. As well Jen's mom the best source, IMO, has indicated (my interpretation of her post) there were feelings on both sides however the relationship was in the infancy stage. She believed both were extremely surprised by the announcement but that knowing her daughter she would believe Jen would encourage Nick to take the role and that from what she saw treated her daughter with respect.

Overall I felt sad for the two last night as I think they did seem well paired the last couple episodes - even though I knew Nick was TB. I was also disappointed with how they did not let Jen have her word as I do believe she deserved that through all of this.

GuardianAngel wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:snipped


Yes, they dated a few weeks long distance after the filming ended. And the spark wasn't there for him to continue. snipped Jmo.

RE the bold, do we know this for a fact? TYIA

Oh no, sorry, I should've been clearer. That's just what I assumed.

Oh, I agree that Nick was never promised the lead, and that producers held all the cards as to whether they would choose him or Luke (or Chase), and waited until the last possible moment to decide. My curiosity is about whether the idea/possibility of him as TB was ever even mentioned by producers to Nick, before and/or during the filming of BIP, which I now believe, after seeing how things played out with his breakup with Jen, was the case. His breakup speech and his comments in the limo will no doubt be shown in the promos for his season. They were tailor-made for it. I don't believe that was just a convenient coincidence.

Yea there are no known facts about them "dating" after. RS claims that they were not dating, but they were talking everyday and were very close. I think people have different definitions of "dating" though. To me, dating means talking regularly and going on dates. Not the same as being in a relationship to me. IDK what Nick and Jen were, but for her to be mad about him being the Bachelor, I would say that Nick prob was telling her things and acting cutesy and relationshippy with her. JMO.

And I Agree with you Ironicat....I've said before that I also think the idea of the Possibility of The Bachelor was there for Nick before and during filiming. Even if he doubted it wouldn't happen, or he didn't think he was a top contender, I think they were dangling the carrot.

It was clear Nick wasn't that into Jen, I just don't get why he would even go to the FS. He should have just ended it before that. It thus give me a pause too that the producers may have mentioned the possibility of him being bachelor 21 dating back to last year when they chose Ben over him. Jmo