JoJo Fletcher - Jordan Rodgers - Bachelorette 12 - Discussion

Fingersandtoes wrote:I think the reason why this situation isn't awkward, is mainly bacause of JoJo and Lauren. They've many times both said they're good friends, and catch up with each other often. I think these situations are a great way to see, that the bach/ette create that famous bubble, and once in real world, it does burst for most of them. IMO irl this situation would be awkward as hell, but not for the bach people. They all 'get it'. Jmo.

Yes, IA. since it was essentially the Ben/ Lauren show from the beginning, as well as the JoJo/ Jordan show IMO, this probably gave JoJo a much better understanding of why Ben said the things he said. Kaitlyn had an interview where she said the first thing Ben said to her after he finished filming was that he had so much respect for her. There are very few people out there that can relate to these experiences.

lovebites8727 wrote:

MiaHawk wrote:My hope for this couple, just like it has been for all previous couples, is that the lead (Jojo) does not go on DWTS. After a grueling season, after months of secrecy, after the media storm these two have gone through already, after Jojo said long distance relationships don't work for her...I don't think going on DWTS would be wise. The best way to move on and be happy is to move on together, out of the glare of the media. DWTS would only make the spotlight brighter on these two. What would be the benefit to this couple if Jojo did DWTS? More money? Sometimes the paycheck just ain't worth it.  JMHOAA.

You'll never know. She could say yes because I read an article that she was asked if she will do dwts if they will ask her.She said she thinks the show is fun and would do it. But again anything can change at this point. Who knows? I can see her doing it though, maybe.Jmo.

She didn't say she would do it. She said, she'd think about it. Just like they all do IMO.

Mia, I don't remember all your points but I don't dispute that JoJo and Jordan may have discussed, "you are the one" on FD but they also may not have. 

Lauren's dad gave an interview last season (I think it was to his local paper) and in it he said that he was driving on the highway (PCH I think he said) from LA because he was doing business down there. He said he pulled over because he got a call from producers saying tomes ready because Ben would be calling him. Because of this, it makes sense to me that, this is one of the reasons Soroya and Joseph were expecting his call. Another being what you stated, JoJo may have told her family that she was going to pick Jordan. 

As for Soraya thinking JoJo was calling them is because a) she didn't know if Jordan was even going to ask for permission at all before proposing and b) because I don't believe they are using their own phones to make calls, they use a producers.

As to your points 2 and 3 (I hope I have these numbers right), I believe from Jordan's line of thinking, he considered these reasons one and the same, just phrased differently. He was trying to get Jo to understand how important asking her father was to him. The big takeaway on this that I saw was when he explained to Jo, on the big rock near the temple, that he wanted her (or whatever woman he wanted to marry) father to ALREADY KNOW without a shadow of a doubt, that because he was asking permission, it meant that he would care, love and protect his daughter forever. He said this is what he always envisioned and it was important to him. Because there were two guys there, he thinks, how on earth could her dad give his blessing in good faith knowing there are two men there and KNOWING that Jordan KNOWS there are two guys there. I totally understand what he is saying. 

I believe JoJo misunderstood where he was coming from or didn't realize the importance asking her dad meant to him. I saw him trying to get her to put herself in his shoes, but she couldn't because she was stuck in her own head of knowing it was him she wanted to spend life with, hearing him say he wants the same thing and therefore she couldn't understand why he didn't ask. They seemed to be talking in Venus and Mars to me. I also believe Jo was embarrassed that he didn't ask her parents as she expected. 

After that date and discussions, he obviously realized that he hadn't gotten his point across to her and as he said, he didn't want to risk losing her, so he put his feelings about what I believe he thought was his integrity of asking her father, aside because of the unusual one-off circumstances of the show they were in and made the decision to call her parents and then reassured Jo of this with his letter. I honestly think that some day in the not too distant future, he will look her dad in the eyes and ask him for permission the way he always hoped to. 

IMO - Sorry this ended up being so long.

cindebugg wrote:

2boys3girls wrote:I firmly believe that if you are an honest, good person there is no reason for that much smoke if any at all.

I disagree. I think you can be a good honest person and still find yourself in a lot of trouble if someone decides to spread lies about you.   Look no further than the Duke Lacrosse Scandal. Newspapers and magazines are full of stories where perfectly innocent people (teachers,coaches etc) have lost careers, their marriages and children because of false allegations, and the mindset of innocent until proven guilty is basically nonexistent.

I'm not saying this is the case with Jordan and I doubt we will ever know the full truth.  Just like we've never gotten the full truth when other cast members in other seasons were accused of the same thing and spurned gf's were all the sudden coming out of the woodwork.  We aren't privy to everything that goes on in these relationships.  For all we know the women could have behaved badly too.   I think it was Oscar Wilde who said,  Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.  I try to remember that people can and do change all the time especially between the late teens to late 20's.

@2boys3girls, I tend to agree with you, and @Cindebugg, I tend to agree with you also.  I can see this from both sides. 

It is very possible that Jordan was an immature and inconsiderate boyfriend over his life. My opinion of Jordan from the show was that he may not have had a lot of experience in relationships, which is not to say that he did not go on a lot of dates or have sex with women. If 2 consenting adults know what the sex means, and what strings come with it or don't come with it, then that is a choice that each party must make on their own. There needs to be consent, but it should be informed consent. I think that the problem may lie in the fact that (IMO) Jordan does not have the best communication skills. Sure, he has a nice voice, can read a teleprompter, or make small talk with strangers, but that is not what I'm speaking about. I am talking about the ability to speak directly and with intention. Talking open and honest words from the heart. I tend to think that one of the reasons that Jordan may have so many 'misled' exes (and now so much smoke) is because he probably talked in circles with them, gave then platitudes and generalities, never pinning down his true thoughts, feelings, or intentions with the woman. He probably figured that if the cow was willing to give up the milk without much of a commitment from him, then so be it. He didn't strike me as a romantic person on the show, meaning, that he didn't seem to be all that in touch with his feelings or the feelings of others.  

I am sure that Jordan was able to get a lot of attention from a lot of different women. He is good looking, an athlete, and he knows how to charm people/is charming (depending on how you view him). For the average Apple Pie-eating American woman, she would gobble that stuff up. I cannot make a true or full judgment about how many women may have felt misled by him. I don't know if the women were just reading too much into their interactions with him, or if his intentions were to mislead them into thinking it was more than it was. I don't know what was in his heart or mind. Nobody does. I think, in general, society has blasted the message that casual sex is ok, but I don't think it is for everyone. Women need to be smart and wait for a commitment if that is what they truly need.

I think that Jordan was a guy who was able to reap the (sexual) benefits of his demographics - young, handsome, professional athlete, wealthy, related to a famous professional athlete, etc.  That is just how the world works. There will always be women who throw themselves at a man because of these factors, and there will always be men who take advantage of the situation to garner easy sex.  What bothers me somewhat is his saying that the women are coming after him with these complaints or that the public is stereotyping him because he was an athlete. It comes across as dismissive of the women and has a whiff of his playing the victim. It is 2 sides of the same coin. It's like a spider who has the ability to weave a web and to catch flies to eat, and then turns around and says the fly is just mad because I caught her and ate her. The fly still got the raw end of the deal. The spider is not the victim.

I agree that a person's reputation can be sullied or destroyed by falsehoods being spread. In today's world of internet, rumors spread like viruses, mutating every couple of days into something slightly different, which often keeps the cancer growing. I didn't put credence into the article by Jojo's ex or Robby's ex rumors. I believe that Jojo and Robby were being completely truthful and they were the actual victims of the lies. When Robby's ex hooked up with Chad, it just proved further whose character was the flawed one - hers not Robby's.  So, yes, I think that some of the things that are being said about Jordan may not be fully true, but when you see a pattern where multiple people are making the same complaints, then there was probably something about the way Jordan treated them or communicated with them that was lacking.

Can a person grow and change? Absolutely. I hope he continues to grow into a man that Jojo (or any other woman) can know and trust. For his sake and the sake of all womankind.

mindless wrote:I agree that it was like pulling teeth and that's what bothered me about their relationship on the show. However, it's a super accelerated process and some people have more trouble keeping up with it than others. I don't think I can draw the conclusion that Jordan will be like that outside the show as well for the rest of their lives. He seems pretty attentive and affectionate with her now, they've already shopped for a house together and he's moving to her hometown. Whatever their dynamic is, it seems to be working just fine right now.

I understand what you are saying. This show is whacked and goes at warped speed. The true test is now that they are in the real world.

My hesitation about the relationship comes from the fact that I heard on multiple occasions words out of Jordan's mouth to the effect of "I got what I needed".  Not that he got what they needed. I know he was going through a strange and unusual process, and maybe he didn't know fully how to process all of the information or the feelings he was having at the time. He was a skeptic. He was guarded. But he also came across to me as being focused on himself more than he was focused on Jojo.  He admits his past relationship failed for that very reason. Then he shows me this tendency on the show. I just think that maybe that is part of his nature. He is a bit self-centered. But he is not the only man out there who is, and there are women out there who love them. So, if it works for the 2 of them, then it works. It all depends on deep down what Jojo's needs are from a partner. And only time will tell. I wish her the best because I think she is a very nice girl.

^ There were many times throughout the season where Jordan referenced "we," "our life" and "we're a team."

Sharleen had really good thoughts on Jordan's words to JoJo in her Flare recap below:

http://www.flare.com/celebrity/sharleen-joynt-on-the-bachelorette-episode-9-all-new-video/

Speaking of Bachelorette recaps, anyone notice this part from Ashley I's? Interesting even people in the franchise are "not feeling it"


http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/tv/news/a62250/bachelorette-season-12-jojo-fletcher-episode-11-finale-recap/?src=socialflowTW

Well if Ben and Lauren's show has the same producers as the ette than they must like their new couple to put them on the happily ever after. I am excited to see all four of them together. They are very different people that should make for some interesting conversations.

I always consider the source from which these opinions 
come from. 

Ashley I is an idiot. What she does not get is people "fake smile" (Jared) with her all the time. Most don't get her! And yes this will make Jojo and Jordan not want to be friends with her. I guess she will be back tracking when the wedding invites go out from ABC. Haha, she just screwed herself out of a potential "bachelor" appearance. Time will tell. ;)

Ashley I may be a idiot but many share her feelings that are smart posters. JMO.

Ashley's entitled to her opinion, she doesn't have to like them as a couple. I find Ashley I to be emotionally immature and goes wherever the wind is blowing so I don't put much stock in her opinion on things. I've read Sharleen's recaps every season since she started doing them, and I've always loved them, she forms her own opinions, which even though I haven't always agreed I've always respected, and she has no problems about liking/defending contestants that others don't like. She's said several times that she doesn't see what others see in regards to Jordan and actually likes him.