The Bachelorette - Season 12 - JoJo Fletcher - Epi 8 - July 18th - HTDs - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Ladybug82 wrote:IMO, she thought that by letting Luke go before he actually said I love you would be easier on both of them.  The other 3 had said it so that made it easier to justify keeping them over him, IMO.  After he said it, it totally upset the apple cart and all her plans.  If she lets him go after hearing it, she'll not only have tons of unhappy Luke fans after her, but will appear a little heartless and/or inconsiderate of his thoughts and feelings.  I can just hear the "she shouldn't have let him say it, if she wasn't into him" that will be thrown at her.  If she keeps him, she's just encouraging him when she doesn't want or need to, IMO.  Because at the point she knew she was not picking him as her F1.  

So IMO, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.  It's a no win situation either way.  She doesn't want to hurt any of them, but has to by letting go because that's the way the show works.  JMO

Well said, and I agree with what you wrote.  JoJo has reached the point in this show where she has now met the families of these 4 guys, so it has to become gut wrenching to have to let any of them go at this point.  And you are right.  The fans of Luke are going to be so upset with JoJo next week after she lets him go.  But, we will at least see that it appears that Chase was not in the F3 by default, which we have speculated about here.

And, I felt like JoJo's reaction to Luke telling her that "she had his heart" wasn't the reaction that he had thought he would receive from her either.  She pretty much said in her blog that she had started to lose the momentum in their relationship in the last few weeks, and she was hoping to regain it during the HTD.  Therefore, IMO that was why he questioned her if those tears were happy ones or sad ones.

Despite Luke being "mostly" what JoJo thought that she would want in a husband if she made a list of all of the qualities, I do feel like there was something missing in their relationship - at least from what we have been shown of their relationship.  And, that was laughter and perhaps a certain amount of levity, as in humor and lightheartedness.  This is not a criticism of Luke in any way though.  It is just my observation.  They don't seem to lack the physical chemistry part, but that can't be all that there is if the relationship is going to be sustained afterwards.

Ladybug82 wrote:IMO, she thought that by letting Luke go before he actually said I love you would be easier on both of them.  The other 3 had said it so that made it easier to justify keeping them over him, IMO.  After he said it, it totally upset the apple cart and all her plans.  If she lets him go after hearing it, she'll not only have tons of unhappy Luke fans after her, but will appear a little heartless and/or inconsiderate of his thoughts and feelings.  I can just hear the "she shouldn't have let him say it, if she wasn't into him" that will be thrown at her.  If she keeps him, she's just encouraging him when she doesn't want or need to, IMO.  Because at the point she knew she was not picking him as her F1.  

So IMO, she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.  It's a no win situation either way.  She doesn't want to hurt any of them, but has to by letting go because that's the way the show works.  JMO

Makes a lot of sense. I'm also betting if they don't say I love you then the Bachelorette thinks there's a chance the guy couldn't propose either.
Only have a few minutes and this is the thread I selected but a couple questions - didn't I see Robby sitting in the upper right in a crowd during the previews for Men Tell All?
And there seems to be a strong hint that Luke backs out. If I was a guy I'd wonder why the decision was so hard for her if she really cared about me and it'd make me realize that I'm not the only one. A sincere guy looking for a marriage partner wouldn't want one that is confused. But also wondering if they had to make a role/reason in that ceremony so he can be a contender for Bachelor.

IMO if you don't say ILY, there's no chance of being the heartbroken next lead.

ETA: @RealityEscape oops, you beat me to it.

^^^ I agree.  Especially since Chase has already told her and gets to spend a few more days with her.  If he's more heartbroken and sad at F3 it'd be hard to justify a F4 who might not have been totally 100% invested in the process and lead to be the front runner for the bachelor.  Even if he's TPTB's choice, the sympathy and wanting the next lead to find their own happily every after has to be there for storyboard and public interest.  If not, what's the point in watching?  JMOAA

MF irritates me almost as much as RS does. stop already.

Exactly, if he never said ILY, TPTB feels they don't have a show next season. Of course, it had to be a cause for drama for maximum benefits for the next season.  

Jojo is clearly an insecure naive girl who needs a LOT of validation. I'm not even a guy with her and I'm exhausted just watching it from a far. Imagine you're actually her boyfriend Jordan who has to deal with that. She needs that mirror mirror on the wall that would constantly tell her she's beautiful and ILY.

This whole Aaron thing is so ridiculous. If I were Aaron, I would be royally pissed because a show used him for maximum benefits without his permission just by simply throwing his name around.  Jojo addressing that with Luke was so uncomfortable and awkward because he's known her squat for 2 minutes and she begins talking about an issue that the family obviously skirts around.  Jordan is so weird about it at the school, which seems to tell me there's more to this story than meets the eye. When there's two warring parties, I am always wary about the ones who have a lot to say to get sympathy than the one who chooses grace and being above it all by saying nothing. Just because the family stuck together against lone wolf Aaron, doesn't mean Aaaron is the one to blame. There's always two sides to every coin.

Quite a difference between Chase and Jordan. Chase who seems to have deep seated hurt brought about an absentee father chose to have a relationship with him. Jordan chose to throw his brother under the bus because he was overshadowed all his life by his more famous and much better football player brother. Boohoo...such a sob story that I'm forever scarred for life.

How did Jordan throw his brother under thr bus? The family didnt talk about him, outside of Jordan briefly mentioning it to Jojo to explain why his brother wouldnt be at his HTD and to give her a heads up not to talk about it as it has already been discussd. He had every right to go on the show... Was he supposed to not go on it because his brother is too special? An issue coming to light doesnt equate to somebody been thrown under the bus. IMO

Fingersandtoes wrote:^
A Freudian slip? Hilarious, if so, considering how much Aaron was mentioned during the episode. I don't think JoJo needed to know why Aaron wasn't there. She's known Jordan for 2 months or so. I also think Aaron has prevented the family from bringing up his name in any drama, or dwelling into it more. Jmo.

I have a bit different view. Yes, they don't want this publically known, but I think Jordan trades on Aaron's name so it is bound to be an issue. IMO this is why Jordan was chosen for the show. There are ways it could be discussed with her. She may have only known Jordan for 2 months, but in that time was (is) strongly considering an engagement. To me at least, I would want to know what caused the rift before I'd agree to being engaged. I'm not saying the family should have told her being they just met. But Jo was put in the awkward position of having to ask about it since Jordan teased around it, but wouldn't tell her himself at some point.

The best revenge is always living a good life. Here's to a good Packer season next fall.

Seabear wrote:When you have seen and experienced life in a warzone like Luke has...you become careful and thoughtful on your verbal proclamations. Still waters run deep...and all that. The other 3 guys...particularly Robby and Jordan have no problem with the ILY's necessary to appease JoJo's insecurities because they are still in the frat zone chapter of their lives. Their life hardships pale in comparison.
The most real and poignant moment in all the HTD's for me was when Luke's Dad teared up talking about how proud and thankful he was of/for Luke coming home alive from his time deployed serving in the Middle East.
JMO

Seabear, I felt the same as you. While Luke would not be my (younger self's) type IRL, I respect and admire him so much. He is a good man with whom she appears to share an attraction, and sadly, Jo is toying with someone I think is still a boy whose true feelings towards her I still question. IMO.

Jordan said this verbatim- "Me and Aaron don't really have that much of a relationship. It's just kind of the way he's chosen to do life, and I chose to stay close with my family and my parents and my brother."

I think that is throwing Aaron under the bus in more ways than one. He's basically saying Aaron has chosen fame, GF or football career over the family vs him choosing family.

pavalygurl wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:^
A Freudian slip? Hilarious, if so, considering how much Aaron was mentioned during the episode. I don't think JoJo needed to know why Aaron wasn't there. She's known Jordan for 2 months or so. I also think Aaron has prevented the family from bringing up his name in any drama, or dwelling into it more. Jmo.

I have a bit different view.  Yes, they don't want this publically known, but I think Jordan trades on Aaron's name so it is bound to be an issue.  IMO this is why Jordan was chosen for the show.  There are ways it could be discussed with her.  She may have only known Jordan for 2 months, but in that time was (is) strongly considering an engagement.  To me at least, I would want to know what caused the rift before I'd agree to being engaged.  I'm not saying the family should have told her being they just met.  But Jo was put in the awkward position of having to ask about it since Jordan teased around it, but wouldn't tell her himself at some point.  

There are conversations between Jordan and JoJo that we do not see. There were times for them to talk about things that are not included in the TV show. So in my view there were more conversations about the Rogers family that the public does not need to know that I think JoJo knows. She knew a lot more about him from FS date, meeting her family and Last chance date before they were engaged, if they were. So... lots has already happened between them that we have not seen and will not see.... all my opinion.