Re: Ashley and JP *Picture thread*

[sjcaligurl]

People cannot go on this show blind. If his sister watches the show and submitted his name, she should have prepped him. When there are two left, it's not going to turn out well for one of the guys. The HAVE to know this Whether it's producer driven or ego based, no guy should think he is a shoe in and even JP, who knew in his heart that he and Ashley had something special, knew he couldn't know 100%. Ben just didn't seem to have any doubt and even with Ashley's tremendous facial and body signals, Ben didn't seem to pick up on it.

It's still reality TV and if proposing is that sentimental, you kinda don't reserve it for a TV show. Jason cried foul about getting down on one knee but he's a guy who has proposed 4 times to 4 different women in his lifetime - 3 in the span of 18 months. I wonder what would have happened had things not worked out with Molly. Would he have been calling someone else from the show? I think that both he and Brad were looking for a 'wife' and were looking for someone to fit into their existing life - which is something Ashley didn't want and I'm glad she talked it out with JP ahead of time.

[moonchild]

I guess they had a hard time finding pics and footage they could work with where it wasn't obvious what was going on. She wasn't like this with any of the other guys. JP shouldn't have had a problem watching most of the show so I cannot see where he was too upset about most of what he saw. I think Bentley was probably the least of his worries. He probably had more issues towards the end like her going back for more in the elevator w/Ames, letting Lucas kiss her, her thinking that Dino was hot ... I think he's pretty satisfied that she didn't kiss any of the guys the way she kissed him even though we didn't see the extended footage of the first date and he claims she didn't really kiss him back until Phuket.

IDK - letting Ben rub sunscreen all over her body most likely raised a few hairs. Ben did get pretty intimate....

What I found strange about her "intimacy" with Ben was how out of place certain moments seemed, compared to her overall rather tepid physical relationship with him. We know that Ash in real life is a very touchy feely type, and has said herself that she likes/wants constant "physicalness" with her man (she told Ryan this, and watching her and JP both on the show and post show is confirmation enough that she wasn't exaggerating!), yet with Ben, she was relatively reserved most of the time, with "demure" kissing and hugging, neither of which was at all excessive. With the exception of a couple of occasions, like the sunscreen incident, the comment in the mudbath and the leg slinging on LCD, which were pretty much out of character (apparently not the "real Ash" character, but the "Ash with Ben" character) with the way she acted the majority of the show (with everyone but JP). Makes me even more convinced that a lot of this more forward and suggestive behavior of hers was encouraged/egged on by the producers, since they needed to show the audience that Ash was interested in more than just the one guy she was naturally all over.

I expect she explained a lot of this to JP during their discussion of "show misunderstandings", and obviously he's accepted it and is over it.

Here is my take on the increased passion with Ben on the LCD. I think there were two things at play in that situation.

One - If there had been any extended, serious, deep conversation between Ashley and Ben that night the jig would have been up. I don't think she could have continued to maintain the facade with Ben any more than she did with Ryan on his last date. I don't think she would have come straight out and said anything, but I still think she would have given it away by the tone of her voice, the look in her eye, or the expression on her face. If he had started talking about their future together (kids etc.) I can see her tearing up, looking away and stumbling over her words. She wouldn't have been able to hide it, and he would have seen it for what it was. Game over. The only real option to forestall any kind of meaningful conversation at that point was making out.

Two - She had genuine feelings for the guy. They had a relationship and a friendship, and it was about to be over. This was the last 'happy' moment they were ever going to share. The next time she saw him she was going to have to break his heart and end their friendship. She couldn't warn him, couldn't let him down easy. She was probably already dreading it, and not sure how to handle it.... I can imagine her feeling really emotional wanting to make that last time they were ever going to spend together something positive. Especially since she knew how it felt to be him (almost).

AshleyS has said that she didn't even want to do the LCD with him, letting him go before then, but the producers wouldn't let her. I think it was more producer driven than anything.

[Guest]

This was in another thread.
Thanks for this quote, JBF. Question, how in the heck did Ben F. not see it then? All the guys saw it. Makes me go hmmmmm

From Willie's interview post-show, June 22
"The one guy I would pick for Ashley is an outstanding guy in the house. He's awesome. I mean, he's just a true friend. J.P. is like no other. J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her, I would pick J.P.
I saw their interactions and I saw the look on her face when they got to be around each other, and it's that look that two people have when they're really in love. That was tough to see that and continue moving forward when you make friends with someone in the house like J.P., and then to just sit there and still go on dates with a girl that he's that into."

[Thomigirl]

This was in another thread.
Thanks for this quote, JBF. Question, how in the heck did Ben F. not see it then? All the guys saw it. Makes me go hmmmmm

From Willie's interview post-show, June 22
"The one guy I would pick for Ashley is an outstanding guy in the house. He's awesome. I mean, he's just a true friend. J.P. is like no other. J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her, I would pick J.P.
I saw their interactions and I saw the look on her face when they got to be around each other, and it's that look that two people have when they're really in love. That was tough to see that and continue moving forward when you make friends with someone in the house like J.P., and then to just sit there and still go on dates with a girl that he's that into."

Well to be fair, how often was he around them? He and JP were only on one group date. But you know what...he WAS there when they had the (almost) R-rated beach make-out session! He HAD to be talking to the other guys...don't know. I'm gonna go with Jesse Csinsack's assertion that TPTB were whispering in his ear!

[Guest]

I guess they had a hard time finding pics and footage they could work with where it wasn't obvious what was going on. She wasn't like this with any of the other guys. JP shouldn't have had a problem watching most of the show so I cannot see where he was too upset about most of what he saw. I think Bentley was probably the least of his worries. He probably had more issues towards the end like her going back for more in the elevator w/Ames, letting Lucas kiss her, her thinking that Dino was hot ... I think he's pretty satisfied that she didn't kiss any of the guys the way she kissed him even though we didn't see the extended footage of the first date and he claims she didn't really kiss him back until Phuket.

IDK - letting Ben rub sunscreen all over her body most likely raised a few hairs. Ben did get pretty intimate....

What I found strange about her "intimacy" with Ben was how out of place certain moments seemed, compared to her overall rather tepid physical relationship with him. We know that Ash in real life is a very touchy feely type, and has said herself that she likes/wants constant "physicalness" with her man (she told Ryan this, and watching her and JP both on the show and post show is confirmation enough that she wasn't exaggerating!), yet with Ben, she was relatively reserved most of the time, with "demure" kissing and hugging, neither of which was at all excessive. With the exception of a couple of occasions, like the sunscreen incident, the comment in the mudbath and the leg slinging on LCD, which were pretty much out of character (apparently not the "real Ash" character, but the "Ash with Ben" character) with the way she acted the majority of the show (with everyone but JP). Makes me even more convinced that a lot of this more forward and suggestive behavior of hers was encouraged/egged on by the producers, since they needed to show the audience that Ash was interested in more than just the one guy she was naturally all over.

I expect she explained a lot of this to JP during their discussion of "show misunderstandings", and obviously he's accepted it and is over it.

Here is my take on the increased passion with Ben on the LCD. I think there were two things at play in that situation.

One - If there had been any extended, serious, deep conversation between Ashley and Ben that night the jig would have been up. I don't think she could have continued to maintain the facade with Ben any more than she did with Ryan on his last date. I don't think she would have come straight out and said anything, but I still think she would have given it away by the tone of her voice, the look in her eye, or the expression on her face. If he had started talking about their future together (kids etc.) I can see her tearing up, looking away and stumbling over her words. She wouldn't have been able to hide it, and he would have seen it for what it was. Game over. The only real option to forestall any kind of meaningful conversation at that point was making out.

Two - She had genuine feelings for the guy. They had a relationship and a friendship, and it was about to be over. This was the last 'happy' moment they were ever going to share. The next time she saw him she was going to have to break his heart and end their friendship. She couldn't warn him, couldn't let him down easy. She was probably already dreading it, and not sure how to handle it.... I can imagine her feeling really emotional wanting to make that last time they were ever going to spend together something positive. Especially since she knew how it felt to be him (almost).

I went back and watched that last date with Ben to watch her facial expressions when he was telling her he loved her. I'm sure it was killing her to have to let him say that and know that she wasn't in love with him but she had to act like it anyway. I absolutely think she could not have kept up with the act that all night, and that the passionate kiss was a sort of compromise and an advanced apology to him of sorts.

[moonchild]

People cannot go on this show blind. If his sister watches the show and submitted his name, she should have prepped him. When there are two left, it's not going to turn out well for one of the guys. The HAVE to know this Whether it's producer driven or ego based, no guy should think he is a shoe in and even JP, who knew in his heart that he and Ashley had something special, knew he couldn't know 100%. Ben just didn't seem to have any doubt and even with Ashley's tremendous facial and body signals, Ben didn't seem to pick up on it.

It's still reality TV and if proposing is that sentimental, you kinda don't reserve it for a TV show. Jason cried foul about getting down on one knee but he's a guy who has proposed 4 times to 4 different women in his lifetime - 3 in the span of 18 months. I wonder what would have happened had things not worked out with Molly. Would he have been calling someone else from the show? I think that both he and Brad were looking for a 'wife' and were looking for someone to fit into their existing life - which is something Ashley didn't want and I'm glad she talked it out with JP ahead of time.

Ben just didn't seem to pick up any negative vibes that she was throwing out there. At the FRC, the look on her face told it all, but he didn't see it. It may be his lack of experience in a committed relationship. IDK. What really puzzled me was that he was so willing to propose to someone that he had never had a passionate kiss with. There is always the possibility that there were some and they were edited out, but I really believe if they had that kind of footage they would have used it. They were doing everything they could to throw the scent off of JP and make it believable that Ben was a contender.

Regarding the bolded. I don't think Ben prepared at all for going on the show. It was an adventure and a chance to get his winery some exposure and he certainly wasn't going on there to fall in love. He definitely didn't read any books, like Ryan. LOL!

[Guest]

This was in another thread.
Thanks for this quote, JBF. Question, how in the heck did Ben F. not see it then? All the guys saw it. Makes me go hmmmmm

From Willie's interview post-show, June 22
"The one guy I would pick for Ashley is an outstanding guy in the house. He's awesome. I mean, he's just a true friend. J.P. is like no other. J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her, I would pick J.P.
I saw their interactions and I saw the look on her face when they got to be around each other, and it's that look that two people have when they're really in love. That was tough to see that and continue moving forward when you make friends with someone in the house like J.P., and then to just sit there and still go on dates with a girl that he's that into."

Well to be fair, how often was he around them? He and JP were only on one group date. But you know what...he WAS there when they had the (almost) R-rated beach make-out session! He HAD to be talking to the other guys...don't know. I'm gonna go with Jesse Csinsack's assertion that TPTB were whispering in his ear!

When the cameras are off, they are around each other until they all go back to their rooms. Ali mentioned it, like Roberto carried her on his back when her feet hurt, on the Lion King group date, all those guys saw that, but it never aired. Just things like that, the little knowing looks and gestures, that the guys do see, not the scenes on camera of just Ashley and JP on their alone/date time.

[Guest]

We don't know if Ben is how he's edited or not. Could he actually have a bigger ego (which would explain his thinking, he had it in the bag)? His edit was the sad son who lost his parent and an almost perfect edit pertaining to that. We have seen his Cream Dream a.k.a. "Stormhorse" escapades, etc. Maybe he's not just the shy/humble a guy as the edit. Just throwing out another thing to consider, we don't know.

[sjcaligurl]

We don't know if Ben is how he's edited or not. Could he actually have a bigger ego (which would explain his thinking, he had it in the bag)? His edit was the sad son who lost his parent and an almost perfect edit pertaining to that. We have seen his Cream Dream a.k.a. "Stormhorse" escapades, etc. Maybe he's not just the shy/humble a guy as the edit. Just throwing out another thing to consider, we don't know.

I'm inclined to agree I still like him and he has room to grow but some things bothered me about him. The way he tried to dole out his affection by telling her that she had him where she wanted him and how he wasn't ready to use the l-bomb yet. I've never heard of such a thing. You could almost understand JP being afraid to say he loved her but Ben was almost saying it but wanted her to know that he wasn't going to. I don't like how he held his family above her head as the final decision makers when she was willing to call her sister a B over JP. They gave him such a tragic, narrow edit and we know she liked the guy who was wild and crazy and who made her laugh. He wasn't affectionate enough or passionate enough for her. Look at the Hong Kong 1on1 time where she laid her head on his chest and he didn't move. She was just left hanging there. I also cannot see how you can give that many closed mouthed kisses so late in the game? Was she really hoping that 'passion' would come later. I really did like their silliness but it was more sibling like ... even the toe kissing part ... I cannot even see where JP could even get jealous of that either.

[bluwavz]

We don't know if Ben is how he's edited or not. Could he actually have a bigger ego (which would explain his thinking, he had it in the bag)? His edit was the sad son who lost his parent and an almost perfect edit pertaining to that. We have seen his Cream Dream a.k.a. "Stormhorse" escapades, etc. Maybe he's not just a the shy/humble a guy as the edit. Just throwing out another thing to consider, we don't know.

I think it was just the producers telling him he was the F1 and the fact that he hadn't had those feelings in a long time and it was probably overwhelming. His friends say he was just like he was edited, but you know they're biased. I don't think he's quite as perfect as he was edited. He was getting the Chris L. edit and we didn't get to see many of his funnier moments. If he's the next Bachelor, we'll probably see more of the real Ben. Especially when the people that know him start coming out of the woodwork and all the dirt starts flying. If there is any.

[Guest]

Let's hope Ben takes a course in body language and facial expressions of women, if he's the next bachelor, cause he sure didn't see Ashley's, but everyone else did.

[moonchild]

This was in another thread.
Thanks for this quote, JBF. Question, how in the heck did Ben F. not see it then? All the guys saw it. Makes me go hmmmmm

From Willie's interview post-show, June 22
"The one guy I would pick for Ashley is an outstanding guy in the house. He's awesome. I mean, he's just a true friend. J.P. is like no other. J.P. is a great guy, and if I could pick a guy for her, I would pick J.P.
I saw their interactions and I saw the look on her face when they got to be around each other, and it's that look that two people have when they're really in love. That was tough to see that and continue moving forward when you make friends with someone in the house like J.P., and then to just sit there and still go on dates with a girl that he's that into."

Well to be fair, how often was he around them? He and JP were only on one group date. But you know what...he WAS there when they had the (almost) R-rated beach make-out session! He HAD to be talking to the other guys...don't know. I'm gonna go with Jesse Csinsack's assertion that TPTB were whispering in his ear!

Will and JP were good friends on the show. JP mentioned him as one of the guys from the show that he wanted to call and catch up with. So, you know that they talked a lot. They were together with Ashley at RC cocktail parties, so he would get a chance to see their interaction. Will is not the only one that has mentioned this. Even guys that left fairly early, like West, mentioned what great chemistry they had. West went even on to say that seeing what Ashley and JP had together made him want that in his life.

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