The Bachelorette - Season 12 - JoJo Fletcher - General Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #3

HEA wrote:@JBF

I did not realized about the lyrics of SHAY. Jojo was spotted recently on snapchat listening SHAY in Camo (favorite luke color).

Jojo also posted a romantic unicorn (shine on, my love) and liked a fan tweet (I found my true love and my unicorn - fan kissing her man). Her preferred entrance said in at least 2 interviews is the Unicorn.

Luke's mother who is a very religious lady (bible verses all over on her facebook page) has a gap from january 3 and may 19 and posted 2 times a romantic fan video of SHAY jojo/luke on JUNE 10. She is not at all a huge poster but she is a regular.

--

Luke was hired by West Point to play football..... and he is a singer with a band (was invited by the Bush family).

I understand they had James for the singer and Jordan for the Football. Yet it is funny that Luke was not included in the NFL football date and Jordan was no matter what in the winner team.

This makes me

James was the first she was visibly crying with... after he read some lyrics of his to her.

James' role reminds me a little of Zack Kalter in Desie's season. He was the OTHER ex-baseball player and creative writer (and co-publisher of Diamonds + Hearts). Like an alternative to F1 Prince Siegfried sharing a similar background to carry the storyline. The other got his solo date in Munich after Zack was dumped in Atlantic City... by himself... and with tears streaming down Desie's face as she did so. Also Zack, as I recall, was the first contestant photographed with Des and Chris after the finale aired. There was a live podcast with him and William Holden from Ashley's (and I can't remember who else) during the finale and he amusingly kept his mouth shut the whole time they were speculating if Brooks would come back. Got BiP and Clare Bear later... before she ran off with the raccoon.

HEA wrote:

SLA44 wrote:JBF if I am remembering correctly Chris had the 3rd HTD and Brooks had the last HTD in Des' season.  If the filming schedule is correct for the HTD's this season Luke has the 3rd and Jordan has the last.  I just keep seeing similarities between Des' season and JoJo's season.  Maybe it is just wishful thinking IDK.

then we are two

Glad I'm not alone!  

SLA44 wrote:

HEA wrote:

SLA44 wrote:JBF if I am remembering correctly Chris had the 3rd HTD and Brooks had the last HTD in Des' season.  If the filming schedule is correct for the HTD's this season Luke has the 3rd and Jordan has the last.  I just keep seeing similarities between Des' season and JoJo's season.  Maybe it is just wishful thinking IDK.

then we are two

Glad I'm not alone!  

@sla44
well YOU have no idea how glad I am!!  
we may be in the smallest minority in the bachelor history evarrr but who cares right?


@JBF
I think James was also in tabloids before his date was aired no? At least we knew her date was a rock n roll date in street. I cannot be certain if James face was out or not. Then again, James was seen a lot: playing the jojo silly song (IMO totally orchestrated to show how much chad was mature versus everyone else... the 'me me me against the world' chaddabear but I think she liked him after his 1:1. James, the insecure convinced to be the duck among the swams.... errr nope, Jordan is the duck (seen in his intro) but wait jordan is ALSO the hummingbird... Anyway, james received another rose in a GD. Interesting that the first word jojo said in her 'give the first word that pop into your mind' was GENUINE for James... considering that almost nobody think he was genuine about jordan because he was not articulate. .... IMO

Regarding the football not offered to Luke. It took 9 days to sign jordan's contract. I would say that maybe somewhere, a clause mentioned that he would be the ONLY football player and why not have 2 NFL date related? I mean sounds conspiracies and all that but I recall that each contestant have something like 14 pages of contract? (please correct me). ...IMO


It was interesting how Jordan reacted about RAYA, saying that his contract was crystal clear. But he is also a 'player on the bench (who is the funny guy with Mina again ?) that nobody knew before the bachelorette' and needs to always say: Jordan Rodgers, Aaron Rodgers NFL superstar' brother.... (yep for someone who wants to make a name for himself, using his brother is not really the right path IMO).

EVERYTHING above is my opinion. TY

SLA44 wrote:

HEA wrote:

SLA44 wrote:JBF if I am remembering correctly Chris had the 3rd HTD and Brooks had the last HTD in Des' season.  If the filming schedule is correct for the HTD's this season Luke has the 3rd and Jordan has the last.  I just keep seeing similarities between Des' season and JoJo's season.  Maybe it is just wishful thinking IDK.

then we are two

Glad I'm not alone!  

I'm still with TeamLuke in spirit. I got really caught up in Nick being Andi's F1 and was depressed afterward when it didn't happen. I just don't want to risk feeling that strongly down about this show again. I still hold out hope that Luke is JoJo's F1, but I am trying to keep a lid on my feelings, to minimize my disappointment if it doesn't happen. I wish I was as strong and loyal as the rest of TeamLuke. I enjoy your sleuthing and reading your posts.

hopelessly_devoted wrote:

SLA44 wrote:

HEA wrote:

then we are two

Glad I'm not alone!  

I'm still with TeamLuke in spirit. I got really caught up in Nick being Andi's F1 and was depressed afterward when it didn't happen. I just don't want to risk feeling that strongly down about this show again. I still hold out hope that Luke is JoJo's F1, but I am trying to keep a lid on my feelings, to minimize my disappointment if it doesn't happen. I wish I was as strong and loyal as the rest of TeamLuke. I enjoy your sleuthing and reading your posts.

It does not matter if she picks or not Luke. I will be almost equally happy because it is pretty sure that if she does not pick Luke, I will see Luke as the next bachelor. Of course, I think they look cute together and will be happy they end together as I do see a love story between them but she picked the one she wanted, not me. The major thing is to have fun and do not take this show seriously. I agree with @JBF, this show is 25% real and 75% edited anyway

Y'know, the editing and storytelling has gotten predictable lately... which is why it is so hard to just accept The Spoilers without question at times.

Again, the seasons we tend to screw up the most on are those in which the lead just chooses a default to end the show with. I also don't think Fleiss & Co. care all that much if those seasons ARE "spoiled" since The Drama in The Train Wreck is more important anyway.

Although Nick was a lot of fun to watch in both of his seasons (and I think he should have been the lead at least to satisfy my own personal entertainment needs), there was little doubt in my mind that Kaitlyn would choose Shawn because of so many key voice-overs and PI sessions of hers showing how smitten she was. Ditto Ben/Lauren (although I think Jubilee in the early episodes and Jo-Jo later made effective competition) and, despite the Brooks factor, Des/Chris.

Andi/Josh and Farmer Soules/Whitney were more muddled although I think they tried to make the right decisions. Soules was literally pleading with Becca in the finale and he looked completely exhausted... as I was exhausted just watching their Last Chance Date. Juan Pablo's season, however, was simply bizarre, but... then again... the REAL story was on Couples Therapy anyway.

After giving Siegfried & Des Matt White's "Love & Affection" a.k.a. "Just you and I against the world", which fit their storyline beautifully, they recycled an extract in a scene with the next Chris with Whitney as if the editors had less confidence in them and couldn't find another adequate song. Yet looking back at the Munich episode in the earlier season, I am still quite impressed at how the lyrics match some of the dialogue: "with all of my warmth and protection" is sung just seconds before Desiree comments "I can always see the little boy in you", suggesting that she is as protective of Chris Siegfried as he is of her.

Likewise, a certain degree of thought and attention went into giving Luke and Jo-Jo a special F1-ish theme song that fits their relationship storyline and his introduction quite nicely. His line of "I've lost a lot of close friends. It gave me a new appreciation for life and for relationships, so for me, I live every day like it could be my last" matches closely with "This life will go by in the blink of an eye / But I wouldn't wanna spend it without you by my side". It IS possible that they could match a song like this to a prospective Bachelor rather than Jo-Jo's F1, but both Matt White and Dan + Shay are singing about a long-term relationship getting through the troubles of life rather than just an individual having a "journey" on this show.

Regardless of his status at the end of this season, Jo-Jo's body language with Luke reminds me a lot of Ashley with JP. Mind you, they are different Bachelorettes with Jo-Jo being more subdued and less excited than Ashley. Yet a particular scene of interest is when he arrived on his unicorn in episode 1 and she says he is cute and she coos "nice meeting yoooou" just like Ashley cooed "JP, nice to meet yoooou, I'm Ashley" and later says JP is "cute" as well. I am not suggesting she isn't also smitten with Jordan , Robby and Chase, but I have noticed how much more TALK is involved in their scenes compared to Luke's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS4zvCrNcdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5hD0n0XFrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SPg4m0Aq7E

@JBF excellent recap and analysis as usual

each bachelorette do coos, it IS hilarious nice to meet youuu, thank youuuuu

Chris/Des https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoxOM5uDfkM&list=PLPy5_G4OJoVUCLSONjOgImZly0TmQuPZ5
Andi/Josh  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqwb04deN6k
Ali/Roberto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYn94lHYbAw

It is funny though. At the beginning of the season, a lot of people said that they did not see the chemistry between jojo and luke... that jojo was all over jordan. Even during luke and jojo 1:1, some said that they did not see it. But after last episode, it is almost NOW it is too much and luke and jojo have only a lust attraction and nothing more. So what is it? too much or too little? Or like jojo said: they covered the emotional part down and they moved on to the passion chemistry after?

I personally saw a deleted scene where jojo is holding luke's arm the same way she held jordan's arm. I also heard jojo using this little girly voice with jordan AND Luke (I have something for you). There is this play of seduction with Luke that is reciprocated. During the group dates, Luke is always near or next to jojo while jordan is not. It is quite obvious. I am thinking that jojo is this kind of girl who need the attention, who need to feel special and unique, she needs public affection gestures, she is starving for this. She is extremely demonstrative and affectionate. When she is with Luke, I feel it is mutual. When she is with Jordan, I feel she is begging for it outside the cameras. Yes she can cope without or little affection... for a while. But she will never be satisfied or complete if her man is not showing her his love and care each time they are close. And she is already needy at episode 3 with Jordan (jordan: she does not see it and it is a problem). it does not matter if this need comes from insecurities or trust issues, this is what she needs NOW. I think it is a very normal reaction if a partner cheated which looks like to be the case with jojo and her ex chad.

What is interesting is to include Ben here. She fell in love with Ben not a long ago. She admitted that she was happy, that it was a good love, that she felt good. And she said that she wants the same love as Lauren and Ben. Ben is a VERY demonstrative affectionate guy. He kisses a lot on the head, touches a lot. He is very physical. Ben is calm and confident. He wants to settle down, get married. Now, which guy is as close as this description. She wants a Ben BIS. She wants and need this bubble 'you and me only'.

It was also very obvious to me during the last group date. She did not tolerate chase going away from her. She did not tolerate (even as joke) that robby was looking in the eyes of this woman. She said to the lady: they are all my boyfriends. She loved to be the center of their attention and the ultimate prize (kiss for a goal). She wants the same in her relationship. She wants a total complete dedication from her man. Some men can, most cannot.

If I look at the edits as a witness, without my like of Luke, I see a girl who was attracted to several guys (normal, each ette do). She may have been in contact with jordan before the premiere which gave jordan a little bit of advantage. I believe they chat a little bit, played around mutual excitement to be on a TV show but nothing deep. But she was interested and it showed in episode 1 and 2. But she also was interested with few others including Luke and Chase. The edits with robby are weird. I felt he was almost the narrator at times, a witness. I even said that he knew all about jojo before meeting her as if he studied each word, each move, each action with her. I do not believe one second he was already in love at his 1:1. Jojo was chocked but flattered. How can you fall in love after what? 8 hours altogether?

I have no doubt that at this stage she likes her top 6 for different reasons. Last week, CH said: it would be ironic if you fell in love with two like Ben. THAT is exactly what we will see at the FRC. And she will repeat the exact thing that Ben did to her..... because lets remember that she wants the EXACT SAME THING that Ben has with Lauren. In each interview she keeps saying when we ask her if she think she can fall in love with two people: I definitely think it is possible.

Therefore, no wonder that we see a broken woman when she rejected her F2. The same way we saw Ben devastated. But Jojo being a woman is more demonstrative, that is all. But same reaction. However, I believe the twist is the postpone proposal with F1. I am thinking definitely a couple of days before proposal with F1.

Right now, nothing and I mean nothing at all lead me/us to believe something is wrong in luke/jojo paradise. Each episode is more romantic, each deleted scene is too. Last abc even named COWBOY LOVE. 2 teasers with james and robby. none with chase and jordan which could be released later this week too. Lets remember that next week it is the 'I fell in love with you' and the 'this makes me soooooooo happy' episode. it is funny that abc (?) mentioned of a 'game changing' after what I believe is jordan's love confession. I tried to find out this on TV guide but no mention of this 'game changing'. So my take is if it was a game changing at that time, does it mean that it was never a sure thing before??? If so, then we have to look at the season with different eyes. Interested into jordan, definitely. But maybe not as much into jordan like in ep 1 and 2 when she started to know more about him. But a player remains a player and jojo said it herself: she falls for bad boys.

Bad boy definition : A young man who has many characteristics of a naughty boy: he's independent and willful; he does what he wants when he wants; he doesn't follow trends, they follow him; he often looks scruffy, but hip; he's not looking for trouble, but there's a sense of danger about him. For these reasons and more, he's irresistible to women. He's a heartbreaker with five o'clock shadow.

But the purpose of the franchise is to offer a believable love story and a credible proposal for the audience. If not, then nobody would be interested to watch the next seasons. So my question is simple: if Jordan is F1, considering how poorly edited he is so far... does it make him a credible F1? I mean we are not talking about gossips outside the show, cheating were discussed in one episode, entitled/snobbish in another episode, he was seen in the middle of chad drama, he was accused by several guys to come for fame and fortune.

So who makes the most credible F1 so far?


EVERYTHING in this post is just my opinion. TY.

the abc banner is this one.... who is front row with a very visible rose I must say?
out of all the footage, they picked this one...


http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette

My guess, without re-watching whole episodes of the past, is that the Bachelorette says both "nice to meet yoooou" and "cute/really cute" to approx. 3-5 guys each season. Maybe not every F1 gets these declarations but we have proof of five in the video links above. I also suspect that only one or two of the top 6 guys besides the F1 will get similar gooey talk, since F2, F3 and F4 are often (not always though) encouraged by either the handlers or by her as easy "tag-alongs". Certainly the one Fleiss has an eye on as a possible future lead gets pushed to go far.

Ashley's limo arrivals are probably the ones I have seen the most, especially since Grapevine TV initially gave us an UN-edited preview of all of the guys, proving that JP was last out of the limos in reality but edited in the officially aired episode before Bentley to emphasize the latter. Aside from JP and Bentley (more smirks than affection), her body language was strongest with Ryan Park and William Holman (constantly touching them and cooing like she did JP) while she was a bit cooler with the actual Top 4 dumpees Ames, Constantine and Ben. I felt she was a lot more upset at William at the comedy roast than when Bentley left.

This season, I just keep getting this predictable feeling that Jordan is this season's Arie or Nick (Kaitlyn season "edition") pushed in our faces. Yes, I thought he was the frontrunner when watching unspoiled the first few episodes, but how could I not? The guy was literally EVERYWHERE on screen.

It was most interesting that BOTH Jordan and Robby "stole" her away in Pennsylvania's lengthy pre-RC cocktails. Robby was showing off in front of the guys and making Jordan look "mad" on camera (regardless if he was in reality) by kissing her in front of a fountain so others could see. Jordan went behind a wall while the others asked where she went. Yet she was escorting Luke into a private room each session.

HEA wrote:the abc banner is this one.... who is front row?
out of all the footage, they picked this one...


http://abc.go.com/shows/the-bachelorette

I don't think I'd put much stock in this meaning anything. Pretty random to me.

@luvstx

I do not think it is random IMO
If they can hire somebody to delete and redefine twitter, facebook, instagram and whatever SM for the guys... a picture seen by millions is IMO not random.
Still IMO it is the same way they strategically ask the guy to stand at each RC.


@JBF

The Robby fountain was hilarious and so staged to reinforce drama 'in the house'. Each of the top 3 were seen. Chase, Luke and Jordan were lurking and Luke was seen turning his back (short segment with James the boxer I think). I mean how robby and jojo could not know while it was probably big windows, with light and guys standing? it was not as if they stood at 2 miles from them...

I also recall that jojo apologize in her weekly blog the guys about the balcony with luke: I did not know you could see us, guys. Nobody saw them on screen. The cameras were focus on jojo and luke... jordan was not there, nor chase. So IMO the only one who could complain later was Robby or anyone present that day later... or luke who received some comments from the guys later?

Everything is off this season and in my opinion it is because the prods spent too much time with Chad, very little with robby, too much with jordan, very little with chase and a reasonable time with Luke (still hidden in ep 3 since he had zero dates that week as well as Robby).

Each time we saw Chase so far it is to show him how goofy he can be (jumping beds, having fun in 4X4. To be honest, I felt she liked James more than Chase. It is obvious she liked james a lot and who knows? maybe she let go james because of his declaration ep 6 which is IMO the main reason why she could not let him go. I also think that when jojo went to see CH, it was not because she did not want to let go someone... it was IMO because she wanted them both out and could not make a choice (probably because she felt cheap with james declaration). The 1:1 with Alex and his rejection was already set in motion. So I bet they spent a lot of time to negotiate and readjust the episode live. Maybe we were to see a THIRD 2:1 next episode with robby and chase?????

I will not spend much time on alex but it is funny to see that jojo was NOT into him. Each time he tried to extend his kiss, she pulled away (teaser next week, and another time earlier this season).

That is not the ABC banner, IMO.  The banner for the 'Ette page is the smaller image at the top that actually says The Bachelorette, with the ABC logo in the corner.

Yes, that is part of the changing imagines at the top of the page for the show, but it is simply being used as an image link.  If you click the picture of the guys it takes you to the deleted scenes.  The other image in is of Jo and is a link to watch the full epies. And IMO, the reason it's used is it shows most of the guys for the season.  JMOAA