NO SPOILERS - JORDAN - Bachelorette 12 - *Sleuthing - NO Spoilers*

I was looking at overlays for Jordan and Chase. So far, Jordan has had several overlays that indicate that he doesn't get the final rose and a few that indicate that he's the final one.

These two stood out to me at the end of the first Argentina episode (Hulu has it labeled as episode 5, but it's really episode 6):
Referring to goodbyes:


veg's caps

This is a VO that was placed over this scene: If you look more closely, we don't see his lips move and I'm not sure he said this before this date took place or after. But for whatever reason, tptb interjected it this into this scene.
"I just want you to know that I mean every word I say...and when I say I'm falling in love with you, I am." 

(my own SC)

I still think that the old Chad her ex, comes in to ask for her to forgive him and asks her to marry him. Then she gives that speech about you hurt me, etc, etc, etc, then comes the final two.

^ It did strike me as odd that Jordan would have said those words at that moment. They were walking to dinner and they stop to embrace/kiss, and he says those words? They seem like the words that go with a more substantial conversation. They don't really sound like something he would say as a stand alone comment. A stand alone comment would have been "I'm falling in love with you". A defensive comment or one said as an elaboration on something Jojo said id where he would have to exlain himself "I just want you to know that I mean every word I say". That part would have come after she voiced some sort of concerns over him or his feelings towards her, IMO.

I think that the editing is showing some of Jojo's hesitations with Jordan - in the 'is he too good to be true' sort of way. They have the instant connection, first kiss, instant attraction and chemistry, FIR, and every time that they air a moment of Jojo's apprehensions Jordan is able to explain it away and she believes him and moves forward. That is what the editing is showing. They show Jordan saying that he is slow to open up, that in the past he was immature but now his knows better, that he has some walls up and doesn't voice his feelings easily - these are all things that can be over come with more time and we have seen this sort of editing done to a F1 before.

But I see Jojo as having additional and more subtle doubts about Jordan.
1) We see her voice that she is nervous about Jordan - red flag gut feeling from the beginning.
2) We see her say that she wouldn't want to be treated badly by Jordan (flirting, trust issues)
3) We see JT tell her that Jordan may have a personality flaw. JT (honest man, man who does not dislike Jordan) witnessed it several times and then experienced it himself. She is a softy and she doesn't like when people are disrespectful (comment to Chad). This character flaw sticks in her memory. I'm sure that going forward she observed Jordan to see for herself this characteristic (Luke says she observes everything). She has said she appreciates a man's sensitivity. Conceit is being insensitive to the feelings of others.
4) We see Jojo say that Jordan is 'hard to read', doesn't communicate his feelings much. We know that Jojo is looking for her best friend. People become our best friends usually because we just click with them, we relate to them, we understand them. Boys often times become friends through activity and action. Girls often become friends through shared emotions and conversations about feelings. I think a best friend to Jojo means someone who she has a deeper level of emotional connection to, one built on communication of thoughts and feelings. Jordan is lacking in that department.
5) We've seen that Jojo has actually talked about her need for words of affirmation (Chase). These words feel most real and trustworthy when they flow naturally from the other person, not when they are the result of a fishing expedition. She doesn't want to go her whole life having to work for those words. If that is something that she needs, it should be something that just comes naturally from the other person. Otherwise, they are out of sync, IMO. She'll be more content and satisfied in a relationship with a man who communicates in a similar fashion or at least appreciates her needs and meets them. I don't think Jordan is the best fit in this area.

The editors want us to think that Jojo has dismissed all of her concerns about Jordan, but I don't think she has. It really may not come down to What he did but rather Who he is (his personal make up) that makes her realize he is not her F1. They may want us to think that in the end it is all about one big smoking gun (one misdeed), but I personally don't believe that. I think she has been building a case for and against each man all along. The 'againsts' continue to add up for Jordan, perhaps at a faster rate than the 'againsts' for another man.

We've seen her have incredibly hot chemistry with Luke, yet, the SCs seem to indicate that Luke will not be at the FRC. We saw her have great chemistry with Ben, but he didn't choose her. The fact that she is so physically affectionate with Jordan does not convince me that he'll be her final one. I think she is fairly affectionate with all of the final men. JMHOAA.

After rewatching epi 7, I would like to say that IMO Jordan has the romance-skills of a 15 year old boy. He tries to be funny, but it comes off as very awkward and kind of forced. Their interactions through the entire vineyard date was odd to me. She is so much more touchy feely than he is, which isn't a crime. However, combine that with the fact that a lot of the time he seems disinterested in Jojo and then you have an issue. He seems more interested in what they are going to do as an activity than in being with Jojo.

I rewatched Jordan's date. Usually, towards the end of Act II of a play, a reversal occurs in which a character changes directions. That date felt like a reversal in which Jordan was humanized, the mask was pulled down and the real reason that he might seek attention was exposed. He's lived in the shadow of his brother his entire life, and he's mostly experienced disappointments.

Watching the two of them interact, I actually did see reciprocity with respect to emotional intimacy. JoJo tells him "I care about you, too." and puts his fears to rest and affirms him after he's emotionally vulnerable. He did look genuine when he told her that he loved her and in his ITM. Plus, her face lit up the most that I've ever seen it. They had major forward movement of their relationship.

Contrast that with Chase: This week, their couch time was largely a similar conversation as last week's. She didn't give back much reassurance beside "I know that you're trying" and physical affection when he shared his thoughts.

What's confusing: They cut away from most of JorJo's physical moments whereas her kisses with Chase have been in full view.

Jordan, like Lauren, Emily M, JP, has had the best dates this season. He is the only guy who had two full 1:1s. He has been on a date every single week. The only one who gets close to that treatment is Luke.

I'm just catching up as I've been busy with RL stuff.

I've only been watching this show for a few years so I'm not as experienced as most of the sleuthers on this forum but I pretty much always pick my F1 on the actions and words of the lead.

From what I've seen in the episodes so far JoJo is most attracted to Jordan. Every time she's with him it's like she's lapping him up. And since she is the one doing the picking - not the guys - she'll pick him.

I do agree that she's got great connections with Luke, Robby and Chase but I just don't see the infatuation that she has with Jordan.

I believe that she has her rose coloured glasses on and nothing will stop her from picking him. No amount of tattle-tailing and gossip about him will change her mind.

I believe that she lets go of Luke at F4 because she realises his feelings are very genuine and she wants to lesson the hurt feelings at her rejection.

As for Robby and Chase - I'm not sure where they stand. I'll have to ponder that further.

But I'm calling it - Jordan is my pick for F1.

What's interesting is we had Luke & Chase narrating their hot tub time. I just re-watched too, and I'm writing it all down for Luke's thread, will post it a little later.

And I gotta say this part creeped me out a bit-Jo asked him what was on his mind and he said 'I really want you to meet mama'. It's the way he said it and looked, didn't seem genuine and what a weird moment to say that! You're making out and thinking that. That's an ew for me. For me I'm seeing quite a few red flags with Jordan. jmho

All her F4, except Luke, have had the narration by someone else during 'kissing' scenes. I've never noticed it being so often & in our face in other seasons.

^Katie, I'm starting to think that your "redemption" edit might be at play. In some ways, if they ramp up the questionableness of Robby who is in the F2, then Jordan looks like the better choice if someone else isn't in the F2 with Robby. A part of me wonders if Jordan isn't there.

With Chase, he himself said this past week that he hasn't had the time with her to cultivate their relationship to the place of LuJo and JorJo. If the show isn't allowing him that time, it's because they know he's a viable option for her and/or she isn't actually interested in him.

I found it interesting that he's been in jeopardy of going home now since week 6. Sure, there's a lot of time left for something crazy to go down like Des' season, so we'll see about Chase.

The ending should be logical and inevitable. If someone takes this season away from Jordan, he needs to have a very established relationship with JoJo already.

Lost17 wrote:

And I gotta say this part creeped me out a bit-Jo asked him what was on his mind and he said 'I really want you to meet mama'. It's the way he said it and looked, didn't seem genuine and what a weird moment to say that! You're making out and thinking that. That's an ew for me. For me I'm seeing quite a few red flags with Jordan. jmho

All her F4, except Luke, have had the narration by someone else during 'kissing' scenes. I've never noticed it being so often & in our face in other seasons.

Lost, I see a lot of red flags with Jordan, but I'm currently thinking that she blows past them and picks him. I do wonder if JoJo is just after a fun relationship, nothing serious even though they are all flinging around "husband." The day part of their date was very quirky and odd. The night portion improved; though it could be read that Jordan is false, again, he's saying the things that she wants to hear (words of affirmation girl), and she's in deep with him right now. They have likely fallen into bubble love.

HTDs could change everything for her, so we'll see if the other guys inch up.

What is the significance of the narration over kissing scenes?

^^veg, it's annoying for anyone that is a 'fan' of that person. Why can't they have those romantic uninterrupted moments too? I feel it ruins the 'moment' that's building between them. It's odd it's on those 3 and not Luke. Why not Chase too, he's supposedly a 'good guy'. I really feel this whole thing was between Jordan and Luke, they've spent way to much time on both of these men. We'll see soon enough which way she goes.

^Good point, Lost. So curious. Looking forward to your Luke post!