THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

There is a part of me that is beginning to think Jordan is the Teflon Man - none of the red flags seem to stick to him.  Is that because they really aren't true red flags and they are just being blown out of proportion by the editing and how much time is spent discussing Jordan and his flaws? Or is that because Jojo is just too blinded by him?  I don't really like Jordan. It's not that he is a horrible person, but I find him to be immature relationship-wise (in his past relationship and in his interactions with Jojo now) and cocky. He has a way of trying to look like he is taking the high road but all the while he is stooping down to the low level or being condescending. I hate to say this, but there really is a chance that Jojo picks him as her F1.

Chase and Derek's 2-on-1.  First, I'm going to compliment Derek. I think he is very handsome and a generally good guy. He may have been seen as too sensitive by some of the other guys, but I can relate to being sensitive to the mood and energy of those around me.  If I am in a group setting with angry or unhappy people for too long, it drains me. I don't think Derek was able to shield himself from some of the stronger personalities around him. Being the first 1-on-1 is always tough, because you end up having a great spark and then often times it fizzles out over the next several weeks. It is definitely a position that could erode a person's confidence, and I think Derek's self-confidence was still bruised from his past relationship. Any bravado he showed was a feeble attempt to disguise that. I did, however, find the overlap of "Don't Cry for Me, Argentina" being sung and Derek's crying in the limo to be funny. Not that he was hurting was funny, but what they did with the editing.

Chase, I think Jojo likes her chocolate lava cake to be a little bit hotter.  He's a mellow fellow, and she is asking him to step it up. I think he complied nicely.

Luke. Luke. Luke. What can I say about Luke?  Give me a moment to catch my breath...    

Robby. I guess the restaurant ran out of spumoni tonight.     Why so little Robby tonight? Why?    Oh, yeah, I know why. They had to keep talking and talking and talking about Jordan and all of his short comings.   He had a few ITM comments in the beginning when Wells got his date card. (I didn't think Robby was being mean, like some of the others - Alex and Luke (sorry, I thought his comment was uncalled for). Then we saw Robby pose with lady dancer and kick 1 soccer ball, and then, poof, he was gone. No SQT on GD. One millisecond of SQT at CP. I can't get no satisfaction from that! Pfft! The editors SUCK!  

Wells. Really nice guy. Just Friend Zoned.

JT. I was kind of surprised that he brought up Jordan during the GD SQT. And for what? Just to say that Jordan has a superiority/cockiness complex? I thought he had something bigger than that to say about him. He kicked the hornet's nest, and Jordan lives to see another day.

Alex. Just.Cannot.Stand.The.Guy. And next week I have to watch him wear a ridiculous looking hat.  

Cant stand Alex and James .... Both whiners! James really disappointed me tonight, if the only thing you can do to try to win a girl is to try to trash the competition, then you got nothing to offer in the forst place. That was low IMO. Alex was right about one thing.... They both got pity roses at the RC.

Not liking Robbie much, but Im liking Chase, Luke and even Jordan. Seems like Jordan is always having to defend himself cuz some of the guys are jealous of his celebrity and who is brother is. I was impressed by Jordan that he gave James shoulder an encouraging rub after Jojo gave him that rose and he saw how happy he was.

We're seeing a little more of Luke, and I like what i see. I think I'd like him as next Bach, if hes not F1, out of all the guys left As I think he would be quite intereting to get to know.

Sorry I haven't read any posts yet. Posting this and then going to go read. I apologize if this is repeating anything.  

Oh that was so good! I love Jordan and JoJo together! They are adorable! It feels more real than anything I've seen on either Bach or B'ette in recent years (from Andi on). This is how I think they'd be even if they were out of the bubble imo. It seems totally mutual and even. Oooo I'm excited! Now I understand why some get so excited over a couple.  

I just loved their conversation on the steps but at the same time, it almost felt intrusive to be privy to such a special moment and turning point in a new relationship. Her composure surprised me when Jordan opened up and finally told her everything she'd wanted to hear from him. I thought, she's not going to be able to restrain a huge grin. Hahaha

Oh and Jordan is so nice, he didn't need to pat James on the back when he was given the extra rose. He also handled the entitled situation with James perfectly. So mature and very likeable imo. 

James is now another guy at the top of my list for most annoying, weaselly, backstabbing guys on Jo's season. That was a desperate, cheap shot.  And that insecure whining....   just stop. 

I loved the scenes they showed of Chase being as vulnerable as he could be at that point given the circumstances, while trying to understand JoJo and get her to understand him. That was one of the most, raw, honest and down to earth conversations I think I've seen on this show also. I just wished they'd shown their make out sesh.  His eyes are soul searching and expressive. That is one of the things I like most about Chase. 

Oh Luke.... he is definitely intense. There is no other word that best describes him in my opinion. His season will be fun to watch too. Haha, and I wonder if JoJo had bruises on her leg?  

Her season is pretty good. I'm looking forward to watching it again after I know the outcome! Can't wait to read everyone's thoughts. 

Wells' date was one of the oddest dates I've seen on this show. I guess the mystery of the bloody shirt is now solved.  As Jojo and Wells were rolling around in the wave pool, all I kept thinking was If Robby were there with Jojo we could have gotten a real From Here to Eternity moment!

LOST, why did you think Luke's SQT was "too much"?

When watching Derek crying in the limo and listening to the song playing all I could think was " Id really like to see the movie Evita gain". After all the bragging he did... I didnt mind seeing him get dumped!

Mia, because tptb made sure they got a shot of Jojo's hand by Luke's crotch.

I love how he is with her, and what he says...he's romantic and says things beautifully. This will be me when she cuts him.  

Yep, that date Wells went on would have been so different if Robby or any of her F4 took his place. I didn't get the guy getting shot, that was weird!

One of you very wise gals please correct me if I am wrong in my view after last nights episode . . . because it could just be my rose-colored Chase glasses of wine talking  

Most agree that the lead and F1 usually have an obstacle to overcome to make us doubt the outcome.  We have all assumed this is Jordan and his cheating or now the accusations of him being "entitled"; or Robby and the GF.  However, could I possibly have gotten a glimpse of Chase getting the F1 (Lauren) edit last night??  Lauren always played it close to the chest, she didn't profess ILY to Ben until the end.  She was smitten with him and even voiced that she wasn't sure she was good enough for him and therefore was unsure about revealing her true feelings early on. I am seeing this with Chase, he is hesitant and holding back.  He likes JoJo, he doesn't LOVE her yet.  He is scared to get in too deep (I noticed they left the "jealous guy" comment out of the scene last night).  When he talks to her he takes his time, he listens to what she says and isn't just distracting her with a ton of kissing and hair adjusting.  Yes, they did their share of kissing while dancing, but I feel like when they talk, they really TALK, about life and shared feelings.  Chase expresses what he feels and thinks and looks JoJo in the eye when he is doing it.  He is not just saying what JoJo wants to hear.  Apparently they had quality time on group date that we never got to see, so now I am convinced there is more to them than meets the eye.

I have been wrong many a times, but could it be Jordan is the physical attraction F2/"love that she has a hard time not accepting" and Chase is F1????

I'm on board the Chase ship . There is more than meets the eye, or the eyes in this case. For example, I swear I heard JoJo sniffle when she was giving the rose to Chase. She was NOT sniffling when she let Derek down on the cocktail table. But when she started to talk about how she connected to Chase tonight and how he opened up, she sniffled! Also, when she was giving the rose to Chase, did we get a shot of her face or facial expressions? Not one! So she was sniffling, no shot of her to read her facial expressions. Hmm, I wonder why?

On another note, did anyone else notice when Chase grabbed JoJo's butt in the dance? He is bringing on the passion!


My own SC

Also, I think locobach mentioned this but I can appreciate a man who doesn't see the need to have to say ILY just to "level up" or to be on equal footing with the other frontrunners. He is more interested in the relationship taking its natural course. I am sure TPTB would have prodded him to say "I'm falling in love with you" but he didn't give in, knowing that it could cost him going home. That to me speaks volumes! I much rather an ILY that is thought out and meaningful not just something that is said because it's expected. Also, why did they cut out when JoJo was drawing him to a private room for a love sesh? Clearly she was very pleased with what Chase told her that she wanted to "respond" in kind.

It's interesting, with all the F4 there is doubt that any make F1. We've got hand/ring guy who is supposedly Jordan, is he the same guy she says goodbye to? Luke is thought to be next lead. Robby has some issues coming up with the ex girlfriend and then we have Chase-who Jo didn't feel she was getting much back from-has gotten a mixed edit and hasn't been in the forefront, just kind of slow and steady. We didn't get much of their date after Derek left, hmmm. Why not show us MORE of their love story?

Epi 7
Jordan gets the vineyard date/hottub and lots of time with Jo-she's believing what he's saying to her and I'm sure we'll see a makeout sesh or two...I'm so in love with, etc. etc.
Alex-horse date-we know he leaves
That leaves Luke, Robby, Chase & James on the GD-looks like Robby got the rose, I think someone sleuthed that?
She's upset in one of her dresses (sc)-her goodbyes to James & Alex I assume, she didn't seem REAL upset.

So F4, I assume is where the blue dress at airport comes in- crying, where she lets someone go (everyone presumes Luke). Or I guess the dress/airport scene could've been later after a date with? We know Robby & Chase make it to Thailand & supposedly Jordan as ring guy. I can't wait to see how this all plays out, and how this season was edited with the true F1 in play.

Quick question for anyone, they showed previews but guessing we are not getting an episode on the July 4th holiday?  Announcer said "next week on the Bachelorette" but my DVR is not showing anything for Monday, which leaves us waiting 2 weeks again . . . .

rhondam wrote:I loved the scenes they showed of Chase being as vulnerable as he could be at that point given the circumstances, while trying to understand JoJo and get her to understand him. That was one of the most, raw, honest and down to earth conversations I think I've seen on this show also. I just wished they'd shown their make out sesh.  His eyes are soul searching and expressive. That is one of the things I like most about Chase. 

Love this rhondam, agree completely, which is why I think Chase may be in the running for F1, with Jordan or Robby being F2.

I think that there was probably a lot of kissing with Chase after Derek left, with Robby in the GD SQT that was never shown, and with Jordan that wasn't shown. They did show us James and Alex kissing her, and that is typically upon their request/initiation. So, I can just imagine with the guys she feels more strongly about that she was giving 'the take me now look' to, that there was lots of making out.

With Luke they showed us a very long and hot and heavy make out session. Why did they show us so much? 1) I'm sorry to say that I think it is because Luke will be the next lead. They need to get women swooning over him. Notice that it's not just his physical 'skills' they hilight but also his romantic and sensitive side. 2) they need to edit somebody who appears to compete with Jordan without really giving away the Final 2.

I think that after they decided to give Luke and Jojo's make out session so much time, that if they were to show her other makeout sessions with the other guys, it would do a few things: 1) it would make Jojo look bad to be making out so hot and heavy with at least 4 guys. 2) it would not have as much impact in its purpose to hilight Luke for the next lead 3) it would not be easy for her actual F1 to see on tv all of these silumtaneous make out sessions. Hard enough to watch that one session with Luke. While I think Luke is probably the most intense and handsy of the guys, Jojo is not shy and she can bring the passion and wants the passion from the men. I have no doubt that at least one of those other guys could give Luke a run for his money in that department.