Bachelor New Zealand - Jordan Mauger - Season 2 - Episode Discussion - *Sleuthing* - *Spoilers*- #2

mercieme wrote:@HEA I do agree with some of the things you mentioned about Fleur. From reading blogs on her website (link below) I am not Jordan is a good fit for her. But I am thinking she is F1 based on the postings & comments she is displaying on her FB...it just seems to me that she wants people to know she is F1....all JMO.

http://fleurverhoeven.com

It is possible. If she is, then she is still probably with him as she looks happy.
However, for me, she is doing the same as Dani did last year.
I do not hold my breath it is Naz. It can be Fleur or Gab or even Erin at this point even mean Kate.

I did not realized or remember who was in the hit list...

shari
gab
kate
rebecca

Shari is probably still holding a grudge with naz because she is the only one out of all the girls that she did not tag about her drawing. Not sure her joke about jordan and his crotch...

So when Gab read the horoscope, it was not innocent and out of 4 girls, 2 are still there.

Kate is literally called Wee-Kate. #OUCH

Producers asked all the girls or at least a bunch of them to change their banner for something more official. I think they did not like the drawing much IMO

@HEA ... thanks for the very fine analysis you provided. I have to say I do agree with you.

When I think about it, the reason why I thought Fleur was F1 since the group date at the beach is her strong confidence in their connection during ITM. Also once she told about her past in Africa, and knowing he describes himself as a traveler, I thought they were the perfect match. Now when I try to check the reprocity of the feelings, you're right, to me he is no different when he is around Gab or Erin ...
There is just maybe that one comment he made and I think it was at the 1on1 at the zoo, he said something like he pictured himself in the future, helping her out in her studio ... does anyone remember that?? Knowing like she takes all of this very seriously, she probably flew directly to cloud 99 after that line ...

Now what you said about Metz departureis very interesting, honestly I totally forgot about that part. Seems like she gets attached super easily to people. Knowing her past struggles ... anxiety, depression after break up, it seems like she has a lot of insecurities ... and she probably uses over confidence to convince herself everything is fine ...
Knowing all that, she is probably not the good match I tought she was for Jordan. She seems like a lot to handle.

I really disliked the Fleur we saw in the last RC ... the F word, the attitude towards Naz and Jordan ...

I also thought of all the time Storm and Fleur spent talking about Jordan. When Fleur would be bragging about her super strong connection with Jordan, I always thought it would bring Storm to dark places, doubting whatever she thought she had with Jordan.
Everyone at the house saw the chemistry between Jordan and Storm ... plus everyone knew they had kissed at a cocktail party ... so knowing all that, what does go through Fleur's mind when she tells Storm everything about the magical connection she thinks she has with Jordan. Does she just occult the fact that Storm has a great connection with him as well, being on her cloud 9 and stuff? Does she try to have her Storm doubt her own connection with Jordan? Just weird.

Also, good call on the fact that production probably helped Naz with hiding the rose at the last RC. So to all the people bashing Naz for whatever she does or says, we should be aware that production might play a big role in it ... especially knowing that the season is quite boring, and they have to use whatever content they have to create interest in the show.

I find very interesting in the season the big surprise created by Naz ... who would have thought during the first episodes that she could be a potential F1 in the end and that there would be romance with Jordan? I think it's quite confusing that production gave her the villain role at the beginning, to now show her as a very guenine and nice girl. Maybe that's due do the fact that the edits of the first episodes were already over when she started to grow on Jordan and become the potential F1 in his mind?? Then they totally changed the edits on the go. Interesting thing as well is that when he sent Claudia home, I remember him saying that he had something in mind, something that could be a good thing for the rest of the adventure, hoping he was right on his analysis. Like he saw at that point that Naz could be a great girl but that she received bad influence from Claudia.

I really can't wait to watch the next episode and the scene in the preview with Jordan comforting Naz ...

cocoHoney wrote:

snipped

I find very interesting in the season the big surprise created by Naz ... who would have thought during the first episodes that she could be a potential F1 in the end and that there would be romance with Jordan? I think it's quite confusing that production gave her the villain role at the beginning, to now show her as a very guenine and nice girl. Maybe that's due do the fact that the edits of the first episodes were already over when she started to grow on Jordan and become the potential F1 in his mind?? Then they totally changed the edits on the go. Interesting thing as well is that when he sent Claudia home, I remember him saying that he had something in mind, something that could be a good thing for the rest of the adventure, hoping he was right on his analysis. Like he saw at that point that Naz could be a great girl but that she received bad influence from Claudia.

I really can't wait to watch the next episode and the scene in the preview with Jordan comforting Naz ...

@cocoHoney I have tuned out watching the last 2 episodes & just reading everyone's great analysis on the board so I don't know if Jordan said exactly to Fleur about seeing himself helping in her studio. However "the spinoff" podcast discussed Jordan's one on one with Fleur & they thought he didn't really say much to her or even some of the other girls, like he just repeats lines back to them.

But if what you heard is correct then maybe that's why Fleur seemed super confident about her connection that she is the front runner. She even said in an ITM on Storm's second date that if Storm didn't receive a rose then it would be better for her. And then next Monday we know from the preview that she was surprised that Jordan has a connection with Naz.

Yeah after reading Fleur's blogs, while I commend her for working on her issues but I don't think getting into a relationship with Jordan is the right pathforward for her since I don't get the vibe from Jordan he is falling in love with any of the girls & Fleur seems to fall easily as you have all noted. But hey maybe Jordan is truly ready to commit & is in love....we will soon find out.

What I like about Naz is that she never bragged about her connection with Jordan. So in the house no one has been seeing it.
How many times has Fleur said that Naz was not someone for Jordan, that they didn't match blabla ? ... Also Storm said in an exit interview that she didn't see the connection between Naz and Jordan back then (she tought Fleur had one, probably due to all the bragging done by Fleur)... but that she got really surprised after watching the last episodes and that she is now seing her as the F1.
Only lovely Erin has seen it.

No one has seen her coming and I find that interesting.

Something else I like about her is that she is a strong gal. Getting into that show must not be 100% fun ... especially if at one point you start falling for the Bachelor. Knowing that he is dating and kissing other girls must be so hard to handle ... Well Naz seems to cope quite well, even though she seems to really like him. It's like she is so focused on the final objective that she doesn't get distracted by the other relationships. Well, we saw her crying in the last preview so that might change a bit, we'll see.

Then last, I like her strong personality. Remember when she did read her poem or when she started imitating Romeo. I mean, it takes a lot of confidence to actually do that knowing that it's gonna be on TV and that you could make a fool of yourself. Well I think she did quite a good job at those ... I kind of admire her for that.

At least she did a better job than Kate peing in front of everyone ... btw that scene makes me think there's no way Kate  is gonna be F1 ...

Geez if Kate is F1....we better all hang up our sleuthing hats

My theory on Kate making it this far is the fact that she works for Woman's Day NZ as an account manager. And we know Woman's Day is the official mag for the show.

On another note I suspect we will get a photo shoot next week in Woman's Day of some of the girls....hopefully it sheds light on the F1....all JMO.

So I am on vacation and time ahead to sleuth and have fun. So I decided to go back to each episode and resume with the focus on the last 6 girls in mind. So I played with the places of the last 6 girls at the RC. Also if Jordan showed any special interest to them to see the highlights of each episode and evolution or  the script.

So I will post 2 episodes at a time with some s/caps I made to illustrate or anything interesting

ALL s/caps I made from episodes


EPISODE 1:

Fleur was the 3rd to arrive
Kate was the next to last to arrive
Naz was the last to arrive.
First group Jordan goes after arrivals is: Naz, Ceri, Storm and ?
Officially said 4 talks but seen 5:
1 Harmony
2 Kate
3 Naz
4 Ceri
5 Amanda
Naz interrupted Amanda
Gab, Erin: no arrivals, no chats
Fleur: no chat





EPISODE 2

Sarah got the first single date, return with a rose and a kiss
Naz: "I am not happy. I wanted to be me on this date"
Fleur: "to hear my name is the best feeling ever" (group date beach)
Erin: "I'm extactic even if it is a group date, I'll get to see Jordan"
Naz: "Jordan is seeing the fake side of them. They're actually not nice people at all"

Group date beach:
Fleur raise her hand to be one of the captain
Fleur race all the girls and is the last one to jump into the waves with jordan
Jordan takes her on a 1on1 because she was competitive to be the only one on the waves
Jordan and Fleur discuss about her oversea experiences
Segment with: Naz, Metz, Harmony & Claudia talking about Anna not being genuine - Naz is complaining that she find few girls acting like princesses in front of jordan but are not behind his back. says she will talk to jordan about it
Jordan: "The thing I like about Fleur is there is a little spice to her and there is something really relax and unformal when I am around her

Kate is making a dirty joke about sausage and size
What I found interesting is that Kate and Fleur were laughing like lunatic as well as anna and Danielle... but Storm, Erin and Gab not so much.




Jordan invites Fleur for a 1on1
Fleur: I could hardly look at the other girls because I could just imagine who they were feeling
Erin: (when jordan picked Fleur for the 1on1) we were all a bit gutted
Kate, Storm, Anna ITM: express their unhappiness
Still nothing from Gab so far

1on1 with fleur:




- easy conversation about her 4 years past relationship
- he finds her astonishing
Fleur: it was easy, no awkward moment, we connected in that moment. I am enjoying this
Fleur getting the rose: I am so happy. Receiving a rose so early on in this competition, especially in a group date is a huge thing
Ending with fleur saying: perfect

Back to the mansion with Catherine, Metz, Claudia and Naz: Game plan is...
- spend as much time with jordan as possible
- interrupt
Naz ITM: I've let people go on my way before in the past and I have so many regrets

side note: funny that those 4 girls are all ethnic (production choice IMO)

Cocktail party

Focus on Naz and Claudia about anna.
NAz asks claudia to come with her but claudia laughs and refuses
We see anna and fleur having a great time.
Naz is very serious, no snark, no smirk
Naz ITM: I am standing for what is right and jordan knowing that someone is here for the wrong intentions, he deserves to know
Naz ITM: She mind be here for holiday, for exposure but definitely not for jordan
Naz voice over: I don,t like confrontations, I dont like causing any drama or causing scenes but yeah, yeah I fell that I have to tell him

It is funny to see that Metz is involved... but edits only focused on Naz



also noticed that anna was quite racist toward Naz. I did not see that at first but rewatching the episode I am OMG!

What also surprised me is that Fleur was very friend with anna and like dirty jokes kate. So anna is calling Naz "Thingy"? (this is right when naz is talking with jordan)







Fleur crying about Metz leaving




Rose ceremony




====

my conclusion.

Gab: we saw nada from her. no intro. no arrival. no ITM. and always in the last line at the RC

Erin: we see her saying her interest into jordan. few ITM. saw her arrival.

Kate: bad joke at group date (already edited as no class act), next to last arrival, one ITM saying they were upset to see fleur having 1on1.

Storm: we saw her arrival, then nothing. she participated to the group date and 1 ITM saying that they do not have much time to talk with jordan (already her script: not enough time)

Fleur: arrival, nice 1on1, jordan seems intringued and interested. Fleur emotional with Metz, seems to love kate and anna's company.

Naz: last to arrive, lot of talk with jordan at coktail, seems to want to get rid of the fake who are not there for the right reasons. Upset not being on first single date.

So first 2 episodes, the 3 girls that are edited front and center are Naz, Fleur and Kate.

It is funny that the public immediately put Naz in the villain category because if you check carefully, she was 100% correct about Anna which lead me to think that she may also be very correct with some other girls. But because she is loud, not a white girl, physically different with her chest, and competitive to gain jordan's attention, the public immediately put a tag on her. Productions played a huge part of the public dislike IMO. They really edited her as a villain. And once you start on this impression, it is quite difficult to back-paddle and change your mind.

so far we have:

- anna being very rude toward Naz (thingy, not his usual type so direct attact about her ethnicity)
- kate being no class act with her dirty joke (sausage size)
- naz taking her white armor to denounce fake girls (anna) and is already edited as very competitive (interrupting, upset not to get a SD)
- fleur already on cloud 9 for receiving a group rose (with reasons, nice 1on1)
- Gabrielle/Gab is not even shown during this 2 episodes
- Erin is lightly shown but very discreet
- storm already has the edit of "need more time"

EPISODE 3

- Storm has the SD
NAz: I think Jordan might choosing more the quiet ones. People like me, we are loud, we are confident. He can see that already. I think he is into quiet ones. He

get to know them and maybe send them home.
- first time we hear Gab talking: so a group date and a single date

Single date with Storm
-Jordan is very into her. He feels the "anticipation" "she is looking delightful"
- Storm's date: Thedate was definitely romantic and jordan was very very much into Storm.
-However, Jordan used "quietly confident" and this is a direct comparison with "loud confident Naz" ; for me it is edited that way.
-He looked natural and at ease and very smitten with storm
-JOrdan: you could say it is the perfect date




4 girls: Lara, Erin, Ceri and Kate
- talk if jordan are into brunette or blonde
- lara say ceri is naive and sweetheart
- kate is saying that jordan do not know yet the good half and the bad half
- Erin ITM: i hope jordan will be able to see the girls that are here for the right reasons
-When storm explain her date to the girls and says there was a kiss, the camera went to sour faces: Kate, Fleur, Ceri
-Storm enjoyed her date and felt special

Group date with dogs
-Naz ITM: she is happy with all the girls exept anna who is part of the date
-JOrdan: I really enjoy seeing Naz going full force in everything she does
-Jordan and Naz spend time together washing a black dog
-Nicole talking about them: they were having their moments
-Nicole is picked for the 1on1 - no rose


(picture that I initially thought it was Gab's hometown.. is in fact Nicole)

Cocktail party

-Gab: he is so hot
-Jordan turns Gab down when she wants to interrupt Ceri
-Naz asked a 1on1 with Jordan who is annoyed by Naz narking comments. He wants to figure out himself
-Naz ITM: I just hope that he can see that I am just being real and honest what i am seeing when he is not around
-Storm, Fleur & Amanda: not happy about Claudia about Shari saying "I would have preferred wine than a rose". Fleur saying: they are here to create drama; Storm agreed. ► the funny thing is that it is Claudia not Naz who started. So here is a perfect example that Claudia initiated drama, not Naz
-Jordan gives a rose to shari for her attitude and patience in front of rebecca
-Claudia explained to Naz that Shari said BS when in fact she did not say that but she said "nothing that specific" ► again, Claudia inititiated drama, not Naz... however it looks like it is another chat she had with Shari the way Claudia showed the were they were seated. so could be a prod/edit manipulation and indeed shari said it

Naz: I just think that Alicia, Anna, Sara, Shari, Kate, Rebecca and Gab ... all those girls are not here for jordan

ROSE CEREMONY

again, Naz is front line. The other remain 2nd and 3rd lines

cocoHoney wrote:
I find very interesting in the season the big surprise created by Naz ... who would have thought during the first episodes that she could be a potential F1 in the end and that there would be romance with Jordan? I think it's quite confusing that production gave her the villain role at the beginning, to now show her as a very guenine and nice girl.

There have been villain F1s before so it's not that surprising. I also don't think the edits changed completely from villain role to genuine girl - not based on the past episode, imo. Villain to "layered" Naz? Yes. But nice-girl Naz who is genuine? Not sure about that especially given she purposefully tricked/deceived the other girls at RC and for what purpose?? To emphasize Naz is genuine OR to emphasize that she is still Hit-list Naz who is competitive? I say the latter.

Also, from the getgo Jordan was saying the same thing about Naz as he is still saying so his narrative concerning Naz hasn't changed neither has the narrative by the other girls - namely Kate - who seems to be a narrator of sorts for all the girls and if Naz is not F1 then likely Kate is the edit narrator as to who stays and goes (so far everything she has said regarding the girls ended up that way - namely Storm whom she said won't be there in the end).

I actually think that any edit change can only be attributed to making for a viable frontrunner status. Usually those who have edits like Naz did in the beginning go home sooner than later and are not given HTDs so I think that there is more left on the editing floor that is not so nice regarding Naz if she does get a HTD so that it makes me not seen as just a villain as that will make her too obvious of a MOT. If she is F1 then I think that her edit will get much, much better. That she was shown making a game out of not having a rose makes me think she is not F1. Fleur's ITMs/reactions actually remind me of a typical F1 who is not pleased with the game playing because she is "there for the right reasons".

jmo

So IMO we can eliminate Gab who had ZERO air time.

Kate is edited as the not classy girl, clumsy, saying dirty jokes, peeing... I think we can also eliminate her.

Erin as air time here and there but besides saying that she likes jordan, is there for the right reasons and seen mixed with all the girls including naz... I have my doubts but could be a possibility

Fleur. I posted my conclusions. I do not completely exclude her but edits do not give her the F1 position IMO

Naz. you know my nagging feeling.

===

What I clearly see after re-watching the first 3 episodes was :

- Claudia was the real villain that gave Naz all the credit on her behalf
- Naz took the blame for her because it was her narking to jordan

Nobody is perfect. This remind me school. I personally did not like everyone. I had my preferences and the one I disliked. I was no different from any other girls. We were all the same, having groups and gossiping and making fun of those who were seated first row in front of the teachers. I mean, I dare anyone saying they did not do that.

And this is something I remember. I never liked injustice. When I was young (looooooooooooooong time ago haha), I was always protecting the weakest or the outsiders. I used to fight some girls if I saw them making fun of them. At the end of the day, ****I**** was responsible of many issues that I had nothing to do about. Just because I was loud and because I spoke my mind and was not afraid of anybody.

So yes. Naz reminds me of myself somehow. Not a bad girl, but everyone put the blame on her because of her loud and confident personality and seeing things black and white kinda.

I learned my lessons many times over though. Sadly Naz, as I mentioned it already, is anti-kiwi standards. Her roots are not british but mediteranean.

I think Naz did not help herself but if she is F1, as I think she is, I hope some people will be open minded and maybe (maybe) recognize she is not that bad.... just a normal girl, not a mean girl

But when I hear Kate and Gab saying racial "joke" or Anna calling Naz "thingy"... I am thinking that some people should redefined who are the true villain this season....

Naz has always been in the front
Gab and Kate have always been in the back
Fleur, Erin and Storm always been in second, then front.

It is also interesting the choice of colors.