The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - MTP -LCD - FRC - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Duke702 wrote:I think there is much more to Ben and Lauren's relationship that was never shown, I think it went much deeper than we see on tv. They both seem to have real feelings that go deep IMO. The show has only shown us little bits of what actually happened. Hours of time spent, and we only see minutes.  I don't think it's superficial. I think they will continue to build their relationship now IRL.

I agree.  And I think this is typical of how this show operates every season.  And IMO in what limited amount was shown there was still more depth to those conversations than what I saw with JoJo.  Again - all based on what they chose to show us.  There could have been much more with JoJo and Lauren they did not share.

To add, I also feel that Lauren had a healthy awareness of how this show works - she understood well the concept - multiple women, Ben either truly falling for the F2 or having to show those feelings - and she really focused on herself and her relationship with Ben.   JoJo is clearly warm, fun and well-liked - even, it appears, by Lauren -  so it's not like a F2 that no one, including Lauren, could comprehend Ben could fall for.  But I think this healthy awareness is why I can completely see if she is indeed F1, their relationship is strong.  Hope this makes sense!

They show a mere minutes from HOURS of film. For example--the typical rose ceremony takes upwards of 3-5 hours of filming. We get 10 minutes of viewing tape. The HTD take 8 hours plus, a full filming day. We get shown 20 mins maybe-2 sessions flanking a commercial if we're lucky.

I suspect Ben and Lauren have discussed their plans for the future. Ben and JoJo clearly haven't though, since she was trying to bring up the topic on the LCD.

So maybe "deep conversation" is not to be expected. I would be ok with just slightly more than a casual reference to the future. For instance, the only reason having kids was brought up was because Amanda already had some and Ben worked with them previously.

To me, this was a good opportunity to discuss Ben's (and at least after their date at the children's center, Lauren's) specific personal aspirations so far as having children. Instead, we still don't really hear anything detailed or specific about them. It IS the nature of the show, but then again, previous seasons had more such information about the lead and his or her final few.

I think many deep conversations took place between the cast and Ben and the cast with each other. 
Those conversations did not make it into the viewers living room so that we could see more important things like Leah's black eye and Olivia's Afghanistan sized cave mouth. Priorities. 

Pandora wrote:I don't know if Jojo/Ben is a good counterpoint to what I feel the Lauren/Ben relationship is missing. I was comparing what I know about Lauren/Ben to what I knew about Sean/Catherine or Sean/Lindsay. We all keep talking about how Ben is Christian, but he has maybe mentioned it himself once? In passing? Sean spoke more to that and I had more of an idea of what he comprehended marriage to mean. Even Andi talked about eventually wanting kids, if I remember correctly. Soules's season focused on where they would live, what jobs they would have. Where is any of that this season?

I just feel this season is extremely light on actual substance. That said, I think Jojo's being forced to deal with Chad and her brothers showed me more of who she was as a person and what commitment to Ben might look like than the googly eyes at Lauren and fantasy dates with the children's charity and baby turtles. No conflict between Ben and Lauren besides Leah's ridiculous accusations does not bode well for me and does not lend reality to what is supposed to be the basis of a marriage.

First time posting here but I had to respond to this. At the end of the day this is a TV show and tptb want to create narratives and arcs and issues of contention that will span the entire season - Emily's single mom status, Sean's faith, Soules wanting to stay in Iowa, etc. In real life you don't have a singular defining issue (or even several) that will be discussed and resolved over the span of two months. Sometimes the show will get lucky enough where this will be the case and they can create a storyline or arc out of it but the lack of it with Ben/Lauren shouldn't be an indictment on them IMO. I mean, they showed - on the first date - Ben being willing to open up to Lauren about his dad's health. Really, if they've discussed the logistics of building a life together and found each to be agreeable in this regard, the likelihood is that the footage would end up on the cutting room floor because it just doesn't make for good television. Jojo's crazy reality TV family and ex-boyfriend who was magically able to reach her even though she was supposed to be off the grid? THEY made for good television.

I enjoyed watching and following Ben and Lauren this season because I appreciated their relationship for what it was in a wholly unrealistic, manufactured set up where it really is kinda unreasonable to make judgements on constructed situations and edited conversations. I mean, I appreciate that this is what we're all going to do because we're watching the TV show but I don't know how you can automatically declare 'X' to be more vapid than 'Y'. I like that Ben and Lauren light up around each other; that they seem to genuinely like and take enjoyment in each other. There is a sweetness and naturalness to their relationship that I find refreshing and endearing. I loved watching them even though we never got to see them face great obstacles or have these "deep" conversations (I'm sure there'll be plenty of that leftover in the real world for them anyway)

Yeah I don't really care about the deep conversations either. I just see Ben as totally, totally enamoured because a girl that he thinks is 20,000 leagues under the sea away from him is giving him the time of day and that girl for her part is just like, chill to be along for the ride basically. I do think they're going to be THE couple of the franchise as long as they last, and I love Ben so I'm happy for him.

Both Jojo and Lauren said they could see a life with Ben . Based on what? Obviously those convos were had but not shown. TPTB want to tell the love story their way....not the actual way it happened imo. Those parts are on the cutting floor. But, for Jojo to reference not talking about the logistics of their relationship so late in the game is telling .

^^Pandora, you can blame the editors for that!! Every contestant who is interviewed post show, and Emily Maynard just brought this up on her book tour, that when the conversation gets too "normal" they are prodded by their handlers to talk about something more ratings worthy.

Another poster mentioned up thread that Ben just likes Lauren in a very shallow/superficial way. Well, all I know is that Lauren is certainly a pretty girl. But, I would arguably state that Ben was fortunate to have just a stunningly beautiful cast. If you lined all of them up and we're asked to pick the prettiest, I don't know which one I would pick.

Also, one would hope that in the four months that passed, Ben and Lauren relationship has reached a much deeper level than what occurred on the show.

If not, they will certainly not be the first to break up 6 months later. But the fact that CH seems so ready to call him best bachelor ever to walk the planet makes me think BenLo has some staying power.

Kashathediva wrote:I think many deep conversations took place between the cast and Ben and the cast with each other.
 
Those conversations did not make it into the viewers living room so that we could see more important things like Leah's black eye and Olivia's Afghanistan sized cave mouth. Priorities. 

So true!

Kashathediva wrote:I think many deep conversations took place between the cast and Ben and the cast with each other. 
Those conversations did not make it into the viewers living room so that we could see more important things like Leah's black eye and Olivia's Afghanistan sized cave mouth. Priorities. 

I know you are right. That sums up my problem right there. Basically, all my reasons for watching or caring are edited out. I just want something to make the love feel real. Still can't help but wonder why this season seems worse than others in this respect.

I don't really get the comparison with Jojo's conversation but in the 3 dates they've had - first, Wrigley and HTD - all she kept talking about was her past and how she's guarded because of that.  

Didn't Lauren and Ben talk about what the future like is for them during the first date? They both want simple things, Lauren likes a husband like her dad so she can give the same life to her kids and Ben talked about his parents and want a relationship or marriage like theirs. Ben said twice that he really wants Lauren to really know him - first and Warsaw dates - only to Lauren. Never to Jojo or any of the other 27 girls.  Ben and Lauren cried talking to Mollie about Lauren. If that wasn't coming from a genuine place of deep connection, then they're great actors and good luck to them.

I think that interview article on Lauren just shows the kind of person she is and it's very much like Ben - just very normal and well adjusted people! Ben said that his and Jojo's thing are helicopters (it's as shallow as it gets) while with Lauren, it is giving back. Anyway, I'm not trying to knock what he had with Jojo. I'm just pointing out what he had with Lauren. I saw it and many other people (given the little we saw). I never saw it with Jojo but others did so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I think Ben and Lauren's similarity may be boring to some but it bodes well for them because at the end of the day it seems that the secret sauce to lasting relationships/marriages is that - similarity!

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/marriage-counseling-opposites-attract_b_2557391.html