The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - MTP -LCD - FRC - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I certainly don't think everything we see is real in the form it's presented, nor do I think it's all scripted.  I do however think there is a lot of manipulation and manufacturing situations, feelings, etc. going on to get the desired results TPTB want.

We've heard about cast stumbling into the storyboard room, etc.  So, we know it exists to some point each season...as a general overall direction TPTB want the show to go at least.

I've heard in the past they've used cue cards for those that couldn't seem to spit out what needed to be said.  Is that hard to believe?  No, some leads don't seem capable of putting two sentences together on their own.  

It's also been said that in the past contestants were driven around in the limos or kept in the room for ITM's/PI's until TPTB got the reaction they wanted, tears, anger, etc.  By asking about other things, one persons recently deceased relative, how you felt with your dog died, or your best friend in the house backstabbed you, etc.  Whatever is needed to get the most dramatic reactions desired.  

So, IMO, it's somewhere in between realistic and totally scripted.  IMO, it becomes more scripted the less the lead and F1-4 are willing to play along and follow the storyline TPTB want to sell us.  Or when it becomes OTT obvious the lead is only into a couple of people, favoring one more than the others.  

That does not mean I give the people that choose to go on this show a pass for their behavior.  They need to own their actions no matter what they are; good, bad, bully, manipulative, the villain, etc.  It's hard to feel sorry for them because they willingly subjected themselves to whatever TPTB want to do to them, but sometimes I do find myself feeling a little sympathy here and there for some.  

JMOAA.

Mommyof1 wrote:The bottom line is that he loved two women, each for different reasons.  At the end of the day, Ben chose who was the best option for him.  Dismissing the F2's connection with Ben is just plain ridiculous, imho.  

I really agree with this too. His love for Jojo was intense . That's no secret. It cannot be denied . If he let her go, he had his reasons or reason. Could have even been one thing that made the difference for him.

Ladybug82 wrote:I certainly don't think everything we see is real in the form it's presented, nor do I think it's all scripted.  I do however think there is a lot of manipulation and manufacturing situations, feelings, etc. going on to get the desired results TPTB want.

We've heard about cast stumbling into the storyboard room, etc.  So, we know it exists to some point each season...as a general overall direction TPTB want the show to go at least.

I've heard in the past they've used cue cards for those that couldn't seem to spit out what needed to be said.  Is that hard to believe?  No, some leads don't seem capable of putting two sentences together on their own.  

It's also been said that in the past contestants were driven around in the limos or kept in the room for ITM's/PI's until TPTB got the reaction they wanted, tears, anger, etc.  By asking about other things, one persons recently deceased relative, how you felt with your dog died, or your best friend in the house backstabbed you, etc.  Whatever is needed to get the most dramatic reactions needed.  

So, IMO, it's somewhere in between realistic and totally scripted.  IMO, it becomes more scripted the less the lead and F1-4 are willing to play along and follow the storyline TPTB want to sell us.  Or when it becomes OTT obvious the lead is only into a couple of people, favoring one more than the others.  

That does not mean I give the people that choose to go on this show a pass for their behavior.  They need to own their actions no matter what they are; good, bad, bully, manipulative, the villain, etc.  It's hard to feel sorry for them because they willingly subjected themselves to whatever TPTB want to do to them, but sometimes I do find myself feeling a little sympathy here and there for some.  

JMOAA.

I'm so new to the manufactured aspect of this show . But reading things from past contestants and some pm-ing me, I've learned a lot. Producers even decide order of RC's. The lead passes out a few roses then leaves so they can get camera shots of perplexed and worried faces. The driving around until they get a reaction in the limo is cray cray but they need that film so whatever it takes I guess.

rhondam wrote:I think the producers are getting waaaay too much credit for fabricating than is realistic imo. They can and do manipulate participants and leads as to what to talk about but these people are the ones that say the words as many former leads and participants have said on many occasions. 

In this situation Ben and JoJo sound like they are in a bathroom to me.... hollow sounding, voices bouncing off the tiles. A boom mike held outside the bathroom door could easily pick up their conversation. That's what producers/camera/sound did to Kaitlyn and Nick. Would they ask them to re-create their moans and groans? I highly doubt it. The producers worked with what they gave them and this is what is realistically the most logical in this situation. JMHOAA

Agreed and Nick in Afterbuzz TV I believe it was, said that no one forces you to say I love you. They may be clever in creating the desired effect they may want on camera but they don't force you to say I love you. Therefore, I genuinely believe that Ben did love JoJo hence why he said it 5+ times in one episode and then in another. I think while TPTB can be conniving there is a point where they allow the personalities to shape somewhat the direction of the show. So this idea that Ben was coerced to say he loved JoJo and that he didn't really mean it, I'm not buying it.

I think he fell in bubble love with both of them but in the end went with his gut on who he really loves. Time will tell but right now he seem very happy with his choice and I don't see any recent regret. He had two great girls (IMHO) at the end and its easy to see why he fell for both of them to some degree. I really think he is just inexperienced and was great at compartmentalizing the dates so he said what he was feeling at the time. I do hate that it appears he kept saying it but I think once you say it once its almost easier to keep saying it vs the girl "freaking' out when he didn't return it on the LCD.

ALL IMHO

mindless wrote:

Fingersandtoes wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

I don't think you're crazy pander - but if you want crazy - how about this?

They really don't have microphones in the bathrooms, and Ben took JoJo in the bathroom and closed the door, leaving the camera crew and the producers out side wondering what the H*** was going on. And what really happened was Ben told JoJo he was picking Lauren - thus making good on his promise to not blindside her. Production may never have been able to prove he told her and they just made everything up - with JoJo and Ben both happy to do some VO to help them do this.

For whatever it's worth, I was told (about another season in the past) that both F2 and F3 wanted to leave after HTD and production believed it was because the lead told both of them he wasn't picking them. So if Ben actually did this, it wouldn't have been a bachelor first.
JMHO

I have no problem believing this is exactly what happened.

I do. Doesn't sound plausible at all to me. Ben looked like a total mess on the RC day, not like someone who'd already let their F2 know in advance they'll be dumped. I also don't think JoJo would go along with the FRC if she already knew she wasn't getting picked. Why would she? The humiliation isn't worth a few minutes of extra screen time and they couldn't force her.

Ben isn't perfect. He did something crappy because he was too caught up in the whole thing. Don't really see why it needs to be whitewashed with conspiracy theories. JMO.

Yeah, I don't really get it either. I think it's pretty simple. He felt like he fell for both girls and ultimately picked one for whatever reason or reasons he had. I've seen leads act, but I haven't seen Ben act the last few weeks with Lauren or JoJo. JMO.

IMO based on watching every season of Bach/Ette this is the first time I believe CH that this will be the most dramatic finale ever.  Ben is not an actor and his emotional confusion and breakdown is real.  He could not fake the raw emotion on his face at the FRC.  I have no doubt that Ben felt he loved both JoJo and Lauren and in the end after agonizing for days over who to choose he will pick the one he feels is his wife.

IMO TPTB did not need to create or manufacture drama.... Ben handed it to them on a silver platter.

JMO

rhondam wrote:I think the producers are getting waaaay too much credit for fabricating than is realistic imo. They can and do manipulate participants and leads as to what to talk about but these people are the ones that say the words as many former leads and participants have said on many occasions. 

In this situation Ben and JoJo sound like they are in a bathroom to me.... hollow sounding, voices bouncing off the tiles. A boom mike held outside the bathroom door could easily pick up their conversation. That's what producers/camera/sound did to Kaitlyn and Nick. Would they ask them to re-create their moans and groans? I highly doubt it. The producers worked with what they gave them and this is what is realistically the most logical in this situation. JMHOAA

This is what I speculated during the viewing of the previews. 
From what I have been told the bathroom is off limits in reality tv. It's the one place cast have been reassured they are "safe". Think about this and it's easily understood. Who wants to hear the act of relieving oneself? Everyone wants privacy during those times.
In this case TPTB simply put a boom or whatever the official auditory equipment is called outside the BR to catch the convo. TPTB were pretty sure neither Ben nor JoJo were on the toilet, but were trying to have a quiet private chat. I don't think Ben and JoJo were really aware this was going on anymore than Kaitlyn and Nick knew last season.

Kashathediva wrote:

rhondam wrote:I think the producers are getting waaaay too much credit for fabricating than is realistic imo. They can and do manipulate participants and leads as to what to talk about but these people are the ones that say the words as many former leads and participants have said on many occasions. 

In this situation Ben and JoJo sound like they are in a bathroom to me.... hollow sounding, voices bouncing off the tiles. A boom mike held outside the bathroom door could easily pick up their conversation. That's what producers/camera/sound did to Kaitlyn and Nick. Would they ask them to re-create their moans and groans? I highly doubt it. The producers worked with what they gave them and this is what is realistically the most logical in this situation. JMHOAA

This is what I speculated during the viewing of the previews. 
From what I have been told the bathroom is off limits in reality tv. It's the one place cast have been reassured they are "safe". Think about this and it's easily understood. Who wants to hear the act of relieving oneself? Everyone wants privacy during those times.
In this case TPTB simply put a boom or whatever the official auditory equipment is called outside the BR to catch the convo. TPTB were pretty sure neither Ben nor JoJo were on the toilet, but were trying to have a quiet private chat. I don't think Ben and JoJo were really aware this was going on anymore than Kaitlyn and Nick knew last season.

I doubt they went in the bathroom together to have a private chat. Obviously the crew would know they're not there on "official business", if they went in there together. They would keep filming no questions asked. I'm thinking JoJo went in there because of something that Ben said in the room and he followed her. She didn't want to break down on camera, so she fled into the bathroom. It happens every season at some point.

Ben is a good guy but  seems to have limited love relationships & might be some -what emotionally young - with respect to his own feelings & self awareness

If this is not a TPTB story line to cover up his Long Gone for Lauren situation - he might have been proded to advance his relationship with JoJo to make a Story of the Season-

He falls for her Charms & smile - really likes -Loves her too

He is in heavy stress - does not want to be dumped by them as till end of Ep9 he was unsure - so he covered his bases - full ILU``s to both

Comes a decision - What a night he & his F1 must have had

I love you & will you Marry me - Oh ! Yes

But honey There Is a complication ..

I can imagine the highs & lows of that few days - who the hell is Ben & now I agreed to marry him - say what !

Ben says he is happy now - many bumps but would get married - we have not heard from F1 yet

How will she deal with all the questions & reliving the pain - Her family will likely want her to pull back & see how their relationship evolves

Next few months will tell if he has been able to repair his credibility or lost them both

RileyJoy wrote:The phone call is probably Ben's mom giving him her blessing about the proposal. Remember she seemed pretty upset that he is in love with two women (at least from the previews).

A teeny tiny part of me wishes he'll give us a shocker and choose JoJo even though all the signs say he won't. I remember watching Trista's season before there were any spoilers on SM and everyone was so convinced she was going to choose F2 (forget this name) because there was this undeniable attraction between them. And when she chose Ryan, I remember everyone in the room jumped out of their seats and gasped. That was fun.  

Then again, if he did choose JoJo, we'd for sure have Caila as the next Bachelorette and that's a definite NO for me!

I think hes calling his mom too... To tell her what name to write on the engagement cake

Due to the story line this season there is no way tptb would have allowed JoJo to leave .. Her comment about needing something more from Ben .. Knowing he can't go there at that time .. is there or the drama ..