The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - MTP -LCD - FRC - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Lucas15 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:****deleted .

It sounds like an almost word for word rewrite of the situation on Sean's season when CH gave Sean a letter at the FRC - "this could change everything" - and it turned out to be a love letter from Catherine.  The fact that they say it "could" change things doesn't mean that it "does" change anything.

I think the same as I did the first time we saw that call made - it's to his mother and it's a "bookend" to the call he placed to his mother after meeting all the girls; this gist of it will likely be he's made his decision, it feels right and he knows what he's going to do and who his wife will be.
JMHO

I trust your instincts and insights Lucas. I'd be just fine if it was Ben's mom.

The phone call is probably Ben's mom giving him her blessing about the proposal. Remember she seemed pretty upset that he is in love with two women (at least from the previews).

A teeny tiny part of me wishes he'll give us a shocker and choose JoJo even though all the signs say he won't. I remember watching Trista's season before there were any spoilers on SM and everyone was so convinced she was going to choose F2 (forget this name) because there was this undeniable attraction between them. And when she chose Ryan, I remember everyone in the room jumped out of their seats and gasped. That was fun.

Then again, if he did choose JoJo, we'd for sure have Caila as the next Bachelorette and that's a definite NO for me!

CarrieA wrote:Ben better be on that gosh darn phone calling Mr. B asking for Lauren's hand in marriage on the podium and we better see it. I'm so excited to bring this season full circle with a cute couple that seem to be doing just fine.. After watching Ben on the WTN I have full confidence that everything will go incredibly smooth and everyone will come out looking just fine no matter how hard they try to rally for drama.

I like your take. I've been thinking more about CH's "Mount Rushmore" bit. Would they really be making such strong, declarative statements about Ben and being the best bachelor EVA (not just CH, but Fleiss too) if he wasn't with his pick and going strong? If Ben and F1 have already imploded or are about to, would he really be on Bachelor Rushmore? The other bachelors they pimp out all the time are the successful ones. You know Sean's head is right next to Ben's on Bachelor Rushmore. I'm guessing Jason's too.

sosleepy wrote:

CarrieA wrote:Ben better be on that gosh darn phone calling Mr. B asking for Lauren's hand in marriage on the podium and we better see it. I'm so excited to bring this season full circle with a cute couple that seem to be doing just fine.. After watching Ben on the WTN I have full confidence that everything will go incredibly smooth and everyone will come out looking just fine no matter how hard they try to rally for drama.

I like your take. I've been thinking more about CH's "Mount Rushmore" bit. Would they really be making such strong, declarative statements about Ben and being the best bachelor EVA (not just CH, but Fleiss too) if he wasn't with his pick and going strong? If Ben and F1 have already imploded or are about to, would he really be on Bachelor Rushmore? The other bachelors they pimp out all the time are the successful ones. You know Sean's head is right next to Ben's on Bachelor Rushmore. I'm guessing Jason's too.

^^^^^^^^ This I can love^^^^^^^

We got a new preview for this episode at the end of WTA (this is the source for all my transcription); here's a link to it on YouTube:



I figure since there's only one episode left I'd post my observations about it here. I've put my comments in italics so you can separate what they said from what I've said. As always, my comments are nothing more than my opinion:

:06 Ben "I came here hoping to find love:"
:08 Lauren "I'm in love with you.."
:10 JoJo "There's zero doubt in my mind that you're the one I want to be with."

Very interesting choice of clips - Ben's looking for love, Lauren loves him, JoJo wants to be with him. Which of these two choices is actually giving Ben what he's is looking for??? They could certainly have used a clip of JoJo saying she's loves Ben - but they didn't.

:13 Ben "But now I have two women who love me."
:18 Ben "It's a little bittersweet because I love both these women as well and I don't know how I'm going to handle it."

Ben rushes his words a bit at the end - just as he did on his FD with JoJo. Not sure he's really being truthful here.

:22 Lauren  "I am like there."
:26 Lauren (in VO) "I am ready to start a life with Ben."
:27 Ben "Love you."
:27 Lauren "I love you."
:30 Lauren "I can't believe that Ben told me that he loves me. It just feels so right."
:36 Lauren "More right than anything ever has in my whole life."
:39 Ben (to JoJo) "You know that I love you."

We hear and see Ben say this to JoJo

:40 Ben "and that I'm in love with you"

We heard Ben say that but don't see him say it - we only see the back of his head and he seems to be talking but I'm less than positive those words we hear are what he's actually saying. I think there a good chance they are not - the movements we can see don't seem to be the same rhythm as the words we hear. Not totally sure though - just my impression.

:42 JoJo "I feel unbelievable right now. Having Ben tell me he loves me back. It feels like we're on the same page and there's no doubt at this point."

OK - there's an audio edit in there - the words "Having Ben tell me he loves me back." sound like they were spliced in because the audio doesn't match the rest of what JoJo said.

:49 Ben's father "Are you in love?"
:50 Ben "100%"
:50 Ben's mother "Wow"
:52 Ben "But I also couldn't be more confused."
:55 Ben (off camera) "I just don't know."
:56 Ben's mother "To know that Ben could be in love with two women is really disturbing to me."
1:01 Ben's mother "Do they understand this?"
1:03 Ben "No. They have no clue how I feel about each other."

1:05 Ben's mother says nothing but makes an epic face - best part of the whole preview IMO

1:12-1:15 Ben and Lauren, Lauren in a VO "I'm scared that Ben is in love with JoJo ... too"
1:17 Lauren (soft whisper) "I love you so much.(tear - which Ben wipes from her cheek)"
1:20 JoJo ITM "I don't know what his feelings for her are compared to his feelings for mine[sic] and that's what's really difficult for me
1:25 JoJo "I've never been more scared of anything in my entire life"

OK - now it's JoJo that's talking fast, rushing her words, and I feel the same about this as I did when I saw Ben do this on the FD. I question if her feelings match her words.

1:31 JoJo "I want him to tell me it's me or to give me a sign. (cut to bathroom scene)"

OK - I have to sidestep a bit here. How many people out of the viewing audience do we think actually understand this scene in the bathroom? Probably 90% of the posters here know that hiding out in the bathroom is a way of escaping the cameras (though clearly it isn't) and if I inflate our membership about 5 times (to account for unregistered lurkers) that's maybe 35,000 people. So let's double that just because I'm probably wrong and make it 70,000 who might know the reason for hiding out in the bathroom. Out of 8,000,000 typical viewers call it .9% So 99% of the viewers have no clue why they went and hid in the bathroom. So - what did they say?

1:30 - 1:51 Bathroom scene
JoJo (speaking in a soft whisper) "I need something from you."
Ben (speaking in an almost normal voice) "I'm sitting here on a bathroom floor ... and ... hey ..."
Ben (speaking in a soft whisper) "I love you ..." (speaking in a softer whisper) "I'm in love with you"
JoJo (speaking in a soft voice) "But you love her too"
Ben (speaking in a normal voice) "Yes "
"Sob"

I have trouble believing that what we heard is exactly what was said - too many audio changes, some volume changes - it just leaves me skeptical. We may see this scene exactly like this on the show, or we may see changes; either way I think much of this is edit magic.

1:56 Ben ITM "Being in love with two women it's tearing me apart. I can feel my mind in two different places my heart in two different places. I'm lost. I'm a lost man."

OK - Ben is rushing his words again now, and when he says "I'm lost. I'm a lost man." he's shaking his head "No". Ben is pretty consistent with head shaking - Yes means Yes, no means no but here I don't think he believes he's lost - he'd be nodding yes if he meant it. IMO just more drama for the show ending.

2:04 Ben ITM "In order to let myself fully love one woman I have to say goodbye to the other."
2:12 Ben ITM "I don't know how I'm going to handle it"

He rushes these last words a bit. Maybe he really does know how he's going to handle it.

2:16 Ben ITM "I have to say goodbye to a woman who doesn't deserve it.
2:17 Lauren in the helicopter - looking like a positive wreck, cuts to JoJo in the helicopter.
2:20 Ben "And I'm confused about that. (shot of JoJo)
2:22 Ben ITM over shot of Lauren "And now I'm going to ask a woman to love me for the rest of her life."
2:26 Ben "Unfortunately I just love somebody else"
2:29 Ben ITM over Lauren "I don't want to say goodbye. I want to keep her in my life.
2:33 Ben "'cause I'm ready. I'm really ready."
2:35 Ben looks at ring
2:36 Ben "'cause that's how much I love her"

Ben makes a little "happy / smiling" micro expression after he says that.[/i]

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/inside-bachelor-ben-higgins-emotional-proposal-w166555

Thank you so much Lucas !

Great job, Lucas. I thought the bathroom conversation sounds like it was different also. I'm glad someone else thought so since it makes me feel less crazy.

Just to add one more thought to my comments about the preview. There were two places where I felt they edited Ben saying "I'm in love with you" after he had already said "I love you". This isn't the first time I've seen what IMO are edits to add the "I'm in love with you" phrase. In addition, I think under certain circumstances in real life one might say "I love you" or "I'm in love with you" but not both - just one or the other. The fact that we see Ben say both so many times is really questionable to me; it's just not the way we would normally speak.
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote:Just to add one more thought to my comments about the preview. There were two places where I felt they edited Ben saying "I'm in love with you" after he had already said "I love you". This isn't the first time I've seen what IMO are edits to add the "I'm in love with you" phrase. In addition, I think under certain circumstances in real life one might say "I love you" or "I'm in love with you" but not both - just one or the other. The fact that we see Ben say both so many times is really questionable to me; it's just not the way we would normally speak.
JMHO

I noticed that too. It also seemed to me that the "I'm in love with you" seemed like it was said with exactly the same inflection both times--IMO, that line probably was just spliced/diced/repeated.

meauxwalk wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:Just to add one more thought to my comments about the preview. There were two places where I felt they edited Ben saying "I'm in love with you" after he had already said "I love you". This isn't the first time I've seen what IMO are edits to add the "I'm in love with you" phrase. In addition, I think under certain circumstances in real life one might say "I love you" or "I'm in love with you" but not both - just one or the other. The fact that we see Ben say both so many times is really questionable to me; it's just not the way we would normally speak.
JMHO

I noticed that too. It also seemed to me that the "I'm in love with you" seemed like it was said with exactly the same inflection both times--IMO, that line probably was just spliced/diced/repeated.

I noticed it too

pander3575 wrote:I'm glad someone else thought so since it makes me feel less crazy.  

I don't think you're crazy pander - but if you want crazy - how about this?

They really don't have microphones in the bathrooms, and Ben took JoJo in the bathroom and closed the door, leaving the camera crew and the producers out side wondering what the H*** was going on. And what really happened was Ben told JoJo he was picking Lauren - thus making good on his promise to not blindside her. Production may never have been able to prove he told her and they just made everything up - with JoJo and Ben both happy to do some VO to help them do this.

For whatever it's worth, I was told (about another season in the past) that both F2 and F3 wanted to leave after HTD and production believed it was because the lead told both of them he wasn't picking them. So if Ben actually did this, it wouldn't have been a bachelor first.
JMHO