The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 9 - Discussion - #3 *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

IMO both ladies have all the right in the world to feel insecure and question where they stand with Ben. He's majorly leading one of the girls on. Within a week he has to let one of them go, and he's not slowing down at all.

Based on Ben's actions, ILY's and assurances I am guessing that both JoJo and Lauren felt as confident as one could in this very unnatural situation.  Unfortunately for one of them Ben is grossing leading her on and she is going to get her heart broken.  The other one will get engaged to Ben and have the misfortune to watch Ben's struggle to chose between his two "loves" play out on TV for all the world to see.  I fail to see how this situation optimum for anyone.  Maybe Ben should have thought of both the women's feelings and exercised some decency before he pushed his love agenda so far.

JMO

^
Yeah. IMO Ben has as the lead the right to explore these relationships as he wants, but on the same note the ladies have the right to react to his actions. All the doubts and tears and feelings the girls are experiencing are a direct result of Ben's actions.

rhondam wrote:Put yourselves in her shoes—Ben told her he loved her just 2 or 3 days before. She knew it was against the rules and he confirmed it. She is now certain she is his final choice, how could she not be, he just told her he loved her a lot. Yet she sees Lauren acting like she's not worried at all. She is looking at her quizzingly trying to figure out why this other girl is acting so confident. This is my opinion of how and why JoJo's look was as it was.

I actually thought that Lauren looked nervous and unsure while JoJo seemed more confident...or was attempting to look more confident. It was as if she felt confident when she first arrived, but the longer she was there she could feel something wasn't quite right and she was trying to figure out why since she knew Ben had told her ILY and she should be confident and yet she wasn't sure....hence the stinky eye looks. She seemed suspicious. I bet she was trying to figure how it was possible that he tells her ILY when she had seen how into Lauren he had been for a while now. Something wasn't right and I think she sensed it.

I think Jojo thought Ben should just choose her already since he told her he loved her so she is now wondering what is going on jmo

LaurenHiggins wrote:I'm mean the producers didn't want to make it obvious to the viewers that Lauren was the one he wanted. It would be hard to edit out him saying i love you to Lauren, so I think the producers made him say "I love you" to JoJo since their waterfall date was after Lauren's to to keep people guessing. They would probably lose views if he didn't say the same to Jojo (which is why I think he was forced to say it). I hope that clarifies things!

LaurenHiggins wrote:Thank you Kashathediva and Jeepers for letting me know! I was unaware, whoops  

I know that once pointed out that the filming order of the FD didn't match the airing order your perspective changed, but IMO that doesn't mean I think you were wrong about the statement that the producers "made" Ben say "I love you" to JoJo. IMO the word "made" in this context can take many forms; threats, lies, cajoling, misrepresentations and more are all on the table - there's probably nothing that they won't say or do to get what they want.

For more seasons than I can count, a fundamental premise of this show has been that the lead is in love with two contestants and conflicted up until the very end when suddenly - in the final moments before the final rose ceremony - the lead gets the clarity they need and figures out who they really love and proposes. That plot has been used so many times it's no longer fresh and dramatic and I sort of wonder - how do you take something that has been such a cliche for so many seasons and make it fresh and different - and believable? I think one way to breath new life into this heavily beaten dead horse could be to have the lead tell both of the final two that he is in love with them on camera. I think this could be especially true if they knew - or suspected - that Ben would not simply utter some sort of mumbo-jumbo response when Lauren told Ben she was in love with him even though it hadn't happened - yet - they knew it was going to happen the next time Lauren spent time with Ben anyway (but Ben didn't know that) so the best time to get Ben to tell JoJo he loved her would have been before Lauren told Ben she was in love with him, and IMO that's why they scheduled JoJo's FD before Lauren's.

That having the lead tell two women on camera that he loves both of them has, IMO, worked exceedingly well at accomplishing their objective - that of getting people talking about the show. It has certainly done that - not only here but in just about every tabloid and outlet that deals with this show. IMO this plot was probably written long before filming started - I believe they do this well ahead of time. On a show where things are not always what they seem - in fact they may rarely be what they seem - what we see isn't necessarily true.

All the above is - as always - JMHO

From Sharleen's Flare recap
http://www.flare.com/celebrity/entertainment/sharleen-joynt-bachelor-recap-episode-9-2/

"Whomever he doesn’t pick will really have had the rug pulled out from under her. It’s been established over 20 seasons that the lead is not allowed to say “I love you” until the very end. Both ladies knew that, hence their surprised (and touched) reactions. All I can say is, I hope the woman who Ben doesn’t pick pulls a Chantal O’Brien and slaps him, or at the very least holds him accountable. A tearful and too-understanding, “I just want you to be happy” won’t do!"

I soo agree Ben deserves a good slap from his f2. He was very irresponsible with his declaration of ily.

Lucas15 wrote:

LaurenHiggins wrote:I'm mean the producers didn't want to make it obvious to the viewers that Lauren was the one he wanted. It would be hard to edit out him saying i love you to Lauren, so I think the producers made him say "I love you" to JoJo since their waterfall date was after Lauren's to to keep people guessing. They would probably lose views if he didn't say the same to Jojo (which is why I think he was forced to say it). I hope that clarifies things!

LaurenHiggins wrote:Thank you Kashathediva and Jeepers for letting me know! I was unaware, whoops  

I know that once pointed out that the filming order of the FD didn't match the airing order your perspective changed, but IMO that doesn't mean I think you were wrong about the statement that the producers "made" Ben say "I love you" to JoJo. IMO the word "made" in this context can take many forms; threats, lies, cajoling, misrepresentations and more are all on the table - there's probably nothing that they won't say or do to get what they want.

For more seasons than I can count, a fundamental premise of this show has been that the lead is in love with two contestants and conflicted up until the very end when suddenly - in the final moments before the final rose ceremony - the lead gets the clarity they need and figures out who they really love and proposes. That plot has been used so many times it's no longer fresh and dramatic and I sort of wonder - how do you take something that has been such a cliche for so many seasons and make it fresh and different - and believable? I think one way to breath new life into this heavily beaten dead horse could be to have the lead tell both of the final two that he is in love with them on camera. I think this could be especially true if they knew - or suspected - that Ben would not simply utter some sort of mumbo-jumbo response when Lauren told Ben she was in love with him even though it hadn't happened - yet - they knew it was going to happen the next time Lauren spent time with Ben anyway (but Ben didn't know that) so the best time to get Ben to tell JoJo he loved her would have been before Lauren told Ben she was in love with him, and IMO that's why they scheduled JoJo's FD before Lauren's.

That having the lead tell two women on camera that he loves both of them has, IMO, worked exceedingly well at accomplishing their objective - that of getting people talking about the show. It has certainly done that - not only here but in just about every tabloid and outlet that deals with this show. IMO this plot was probably written long before filming started - I believe they do this well ahead of time. On a show where things are not always what they seem - in fact they may rarely be what they seem - what we see isn't necessarily true.

All the above is - as always - JMHO

I am sorry but the reasoning that producers made him say I love you to Jojo is BS, and does not excuse him. He should have taken a page out of JPG and not cave into any such " threats, lies, cajoling, misrepresentation).
I don't buy that he was manipulated to say I love you to any of them. He did that himself in the moment, without pausing to think about the consequences.

I'm sure JoJo knew that Lauren's date was after hers, and she was hoping that Ben would've acted strangely around Lauren, since in her mind Ben had basically chosen her already. But then Lauren seemed the same as usual and JoJo started wondering if Lauren's date had gone as swimmingly as hers. That's why the skeptical looks at the RC.

ForeverLove wrote:

agentcurls wrote:I don't think she had anything personal against Lauren, IMO.
I just think she was uncomfortable. I know I would be. The whole thing was so awkward to watch. 

True. But my friend said, at least Lauren tried to be nice. You can't hide those glaring eyes. Imo of course .

IMO those glaring eyes were in direct response to Lauren's comment about "I couldn't ask for a better week". It came off IMO that she was trying to make JOJo jealous by deliberately saying how great her week was. But I guess at this stage you are highly invested in the relationship. So I Don't hold JoJo's glaring eyes or Lauren's remark for that matter against them. They are both in an awkward situation.

kraft33 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:

Jeepers wrote:It's difficult to determine all that eye contact when they aren't in the same frame  .. There is a lot more in that RC clip .. That is not exclusive to JoJo .. Including the little snide look that she gave Lauren .. When JoJo turned away... And more as well

Omgoodness! I have two friends who watch with me when possible. Not this week's episode . They watched on YouTube today . They kinda  liked Jojo . Last week one said she  didn't like her family , and this week the other caught Jojo's "nasty mean eyes ". Her words!

2.0 and 2.30

Jojo looked very nervous and awkward at that rose ceremony to me. And I didn't like how she was questioning Lauren about how she felt. Made herself look insecure to me. Jmo

Me and my friend also both like Jojo but both of us reacted on her eyes during that RC. We got bad vibes.

And maybe that's why I like JoJo. She's not perfect and she's not afraid to show it. She doesn't give off the vibe of trying to say the right things at all times and react the ways it'll be most socially accepted. She just is.