The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 9 - Discussion - #2 *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

I'm sure there are people who aren't fans of either of them two and still see it that way as well.

Justafan2 wrote:IMO Ben has absolutely told Lauren everything. As we have seen, he isn't able to hold much, or anything in for that matter. The question for me is when. If Lauren is F1 I would hope he someone told her before the proposal. I know for me, I would hate to find out after the fact rather than before. If I found out before, I could understand more but still see that in the end I was the "chosen one". Lauren seems strong and very logical. I could see her being able to understand all the emotions Ben went through.

My biggest struggle with this show, and this season in particular is after the fact. So if he is telling the truth and he truly had strong feelings for both (I won't say love as I don't know if real love can come from the bubble until they are out of it) how do you build on a new relationship/engagement when you are still mourning the relationship you ended?

I think Ben did tell Lauren before the proposal about telling JoJo he loved her or that he loved JoJo, and that IMO is why Lauren looks nervous in the screencaps from the last episode heading to the proposal, and why JoJo looks more confident. I think JoJo doesnt know he told Lauren ILY and ignorance is bliss, as they say. JoJo may feel she's the only one he said ILY to. Lauren, on the other hand, hopefully knows the facts and is therefore still understandably nervous because she knows he loves/loved them both. IMO

Unrelated, but is it just me, or did anyone notice a huge change in JoJo after the ILY, in terms of being so mich more relaxed and at ease with Ben. I thought it was cute, but got a bit sick of hearing her call him babe so much. Ben and Lauren were so adorable...I hope they are weathering this storm.

see2love wrote:

Julie81 wrote:Why would he need to make things right to Lauren in his blog? I doubt she even reads it! He can physically talk to her, text her, etc. There's no reason to sugar coat his blog or make it a love letter to her. It's a blog...not even a personal one at that. It's a part of his job as the bachelor. It's not his real life, what's going on now, words. JMO

Yeah just like Chris was only showing Whitney affection in private while extolling the virtues of Becca in his blog. We all know how that ended.

I don't think Chris ever wanted to be with Whitney in the first place but that's for a whole other thread! Lol plus there's no comparing Ben and Chris in my eyes!

Seo2 wrote:

Justafan2 wrote:IMO Ben has absolutely told Lauren everything. As we have seen, he isn't able to hold much, or anything in for that matter. The question for me is when. If Lauren is F1 I would hope he someone told her before the proposal. I know for me, I would hate to find out after the fact rather than before. If I found out before, I could understand more but still see that in the end I was the "chosen one". Lauren seems strong and very logical. I could see her being able to understand all the emotions Ben went through.

My biggest struggle with this show, and this season in particular is after the fact. So if he is telling the truth and he truly had strong feelings for both (I won't say love as I don't know if real love can come from the bubble until they are out of it) how do you build on a new relationship/engagement when you are still mourning the relationship you ended?

I think Ben did tell Lauren before the proposal about telling JoJo he loved her or that he loved JoJo, and that IMO is why Lauren looks nervous in the screencaps from the last episode heading to the proposal, and why JoJo looks more confident. I think JoJo doesnt know he told Lauren ILY and ignorance is bliss, as they say. JoJo may feel she's the only one he said ILY to. Lauren, on the other hand, hopefully knows the facts and is therefore still understandably nervous because she knows he loves/loved them both. IMO

Unrelated, but is it just me, or did anyone notice a huge change in JoJo after the ILY, in terms of being so mich more relaxed and at ease with Ben. I thought it was cute, but got a bit sick of hearing her call him babe so much. Ben and Lauren were so adorable...I hope they are weathering this storm.

Ita. Ben no doubt took an openly unconventional route to his F1. I cringe what the LCD's will bring but if he confessed love on the FD's, it has to continue to the LCD's. No matter how cray cray things got for Benny , he was able to make his choice . Kudos to him. He seems very happy now and I think Ben did do full disclosure with Lauren. Her seeing it might be a little different.

I realize, by definition, because they're on the Bachelor these women are generally low on the self respect pole...

But after comisserating, I sincerely hope whoever he chooses, tells him to shove his rose and Neil Lane's ring up his poo-hole...

Never gonna happen, but a man can dream...

agentcurls wrote:Ben's blog...pretty JoJo heavy...what is the consensus?

1) is it a bit of a ruse? (Do these have a lot of input from TPTB as ghost writers?)

2) or is it trying to prepare everyone for what's to come, or maybe an upset, seeing as though Lauren is the heavy fave by-and-large?

In that finale preview though, JoJo appears perhaps a little more confident, though hard to tell....and Lauren appears more doubtful......that is usually a predictor of an F1.

It's interesting how we talked about why the order of the HTDs and FDs was changed - to make it seem like JoJo was the more likely F1, or at the very least, just as strong as Lauren. I think for the same reason, it seems like Ben is much more into JoJo. I do think his blog gets worked over by somebody else after he wrote it to keep people guessing. But after reading the gushing about JoJo, I reread what was written about Lauren, and I felt less like he was most interested in JoJo. It still seems like a level playing field.

I watched it later last night and can't catch up on this busy thread right now. I guess Fleiss got what he wanted.

I decided to re-watch the last 2 dates in the correct order so Jojo's first. It's pretty obvious from watching that Ben does have strong feelings for her and he probably did love her in that moment(s). Unfortunately, she gave him the perfect out so he didn't need to tell her ILY and I wish he'd taken it. It's hard to watch her being so excited that I'd have to think he has a lot of regrets. It was pretty obvious that a lot of what we hear Ben say off camera was filmed post season to fit the edit and I found it distracting.

The start of Lauren's date seemed so geared to what she'd like. I thought the whole baby sea turtle part was adorable. We saw them talking so that part was private and Ben told her about crying when her sister asked him about her. I was a little surprised that he felt she was too good for him. I wonder if that played into why he went so far in his relationship with Jojo? Maybe he was afraid Lauren would reject him going into the FD. I loved her evening outfit and she looked great. I noticed when she was telling Ben about her fears and doubts that they seemed to show him with the same expression multiple times. They've messed around with those in the past so it's hard to know what goes with what comment. At one point they showed him with that expression and you can see she's talking by her hair moving but they show her and she's not so we missed things as usual. I know some thought he was annoyed by her but I didn't see that at all. I thought he was worried about her but it's subjective. He seemed so happy to tell Lauren he loved her. It was sweet when he brought her breakfast and was like they were a real couple.

I know now why they showed Jojo's FD last. Watching it in reverse order it's clearer than it felt last night. The multiple ILYs were confusing and obviously a mistake on Ben's part but I don't think that all of a sudden he's a bad person. I think it would have been too obvious who he was picking if they didn't mess with us but it's too bad for him and Lauren. Not an easy way to start a relationship. I have no doubt they've already talked about it and hoping she didn't watch Jojo's FD.

In Ben's blog, he stated he had many sleepless nights wrestling with his emotions. In addition to being in the Bachelor bubble, lack of sleep can mess with your sensibilities also.

I just listened to Afterbuzz. They thought it was a big deal when a chat room person informed them part way through that Lauren's date was filmed last. They felt that if Jojo was F1, he never would have acted the way he did with Lauren B.
They all think Lolo is F1. Spilt on next lead between Jojo and Caila.
They didn't seemed to be too shocked or annoyed at him perhaps having sex with all 3.

nutty1 wrote:I just listened to Afterbuzz. They thought it was a big deal when a chat room person informed them part way through that Lauren's date was filmed last. They felt that if Jojo was F1, he never would have acted the way he did with Lauren B.
They all think Lolo is F1. Spilt on next lead between Jojo and Caila.
They didn't seemed to be too shocked or annoyed at him perhaps having sex with all 3.

So true about Lauren's date. They have to manufacture some sort of love story. Smoke and mirrors . There's a reason Jojo's dates are edited last but not filmed that way. She's not the F1. Mooc

From the preview...Lauren's FRC time (more like twilight 4/5) seemed later than Jojo's (more like 3/4 afternoon)- reminded me when we talked about Whitney vs. Becca's arrival.

Ben will need to wear fire retardant\teflon pants for the "hot seat" at ATFR. CH will gleefully grill him like a grilled cheese sandwich over telling two women multiple times he loved them, then the confrontation from F2 dumpee (who imo will be JoJo) - you PROMISED you wouldn't blindside me and you did. JMO