The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 9 - Discussion - #2 *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

Milly ‏@mmilly 57m57 minutes ago
#9thebachelor #the bachelor 'If I don't feel it with her I will send her home today' ..5 mins later 'I love you too' Omg.. The male species..

Tessa Marks ‏@tkmtwit 3h3 hours ago
"Caila, I'm in love with everyone but you." Shut up Ben! Stop talking Ben!! #TheBachelor #WAYYYTooMuchInformation

Tessa Marks ‏@tkmtwit 4h4 hours ago
No, Ben, you'd only be on the same page if she were dating another guy she's in love with. #TheBachelor

adj13 wrote:It seems like everyone is forgetting that this is A TV SHOW!!! The drama is amplified, the feelings are amplified... Everything is blown out of proportion!

Should Ben have told both girls he loved them? No. But IMO, Ben was saying what he felt in the moment with each girl. When he went on his date with JoJo, he didn't know Lauren would later confess her love for him. He only knew that JoJo loved him and he felt feelings of love for her too. So being the honest, in the moment, caring guy that he is, he expressed that. Was he thinking about the future and the repercussions? Obviously not, but if he was, he would be playing this whole thing safe and he wouldn't be being true to himself. As Trista Sutter just tweeted, "Without risk, there is no reward!"

In the end, he loved both girls at the end of this process, but loved one more than the other and could truly see his life with one over the other. (I will also say that I still believe his I love yous to Lauren seemed much more sincere and heartfelt).  

Obviously he has told his F1 about all of this. He isn't stupid! And no, it can't be easy to watch, but I feel like the ITM tonight of Lauren saying "I certainly think it's possible to be in love with two people" or something to that extent, already shows us that she is forgiving and understanding about this whole crazy process and the feelings that can develop. Freaking out that she needs to dump him right now over something that happened in November is a little outrageous, IMO. We have no idea how their relationship has developed since this was filmed 4 months ago.

This show is not real life, in real life you don't date multiple people at once, therefore, the rule of the relationship while on this show obviously do not apply the way they would in real life. Now that the show is over, the rule apply, but anything that happened while filming cannot be held against the lead, IMO.

First thoughts - this is a great post.

Subsequent thoughts:

1 - Regarding the phrase "I love you". In a marriage with the ebb and flow of daily life saying "I love you" starts to lose it's meaning because you don't - and can't - always feel the same - life intrudes all the time. So I have a pact with my wife regarding ILY and that is we never say it in a casual way to each other. If we say it it's because in that moment we feel it particularly strongly. We say it rarely because we don't have to - we both know the love is always there without saying it all the time. But when we do say it it's because in that moment we really really feel it. IMO I can't measure Ben's feelings by how many times he said ILY to JoJo or Lauren - the real measure to me is when he said it - did he mean it? Once with meaning trumps 100 times without.

2 - The phrase that Ben said to Lauren (from the latest preview and seen in the episode) "The last thing I want is for you to to like be holding all this in - like questions, concerns, feelings, emotions, whatever. I want to know what your fears are, where you stand, what you're scared of, what I've done wrong." takes on a different significance to me now having seen the episode. Did Lauren know what he meant by "what I've done wrong[" at the time? I think not. But did Ben know what he meant at the time? Yes I think he knew exactly what he meant.

3 - Lauren said in an ITM and the end of the episode that she thought it was possible to love two people at the same time. I don't know when she said that, or where she was (but we'll probably figure that out) but IMO she knew at that point what had happened between Ben and JoJo - and furthermore understood it and accepted it.

4 - I saw some pretty compelling evidence that Lauren's FD was last as we suspected - especially her comment that she hadn't seen Ben for a week - that week puts her FD after Caila's and JoJo's.

5 - I do not know if Ben was intimate with 1, 2, or 3 girls. Hopefully we'll never know and the only people who will will be Ben and the girls. But if I had to venture a guess based on how they edited the dates last night I would say he was either not intimate with any of the 3, or he was only intimate with 1 of the three and the 1 would be Lauren. Clothing strewn on the floor is sort of a clue.

CarrieA wrote:

northernviewer wrote:Just wanted to make a brief observation after having slept on it.   I think a 26 yr old guy who can say i love you so many times to two different girls in the span of a few days .... Probably isn really in love but experiencing some deep feelings and is highly confused inside his little bachelor bubble.  And having watched this show for so many years nobody can convince me that totb werent encouraging it , telling him it was the right thing to do

ITA nv. I'm sure his head was spinning at this point. I think we will get a resolution before the ATFR segment, even if it's not how we wanted it to go down. I can just see TPTB drooling over this ATFR taping and I hope that everyone can manage to hold it together and not freak out. I think this season I could totally see them using F2 as the bachelorette and being able to run with it smoothly. Jojo has commented at least twice how strong Ben and LB's obvious connection is and she will come out and be supportive and graceful and understanding and take the job. JMO obvs.

How then do we explain what he has been saying post show He did say its true I fell in love with 2 women and I didnt think it was possible" since the show ended.
He needs to learn to choose his words carefully IMO. We can only blame tptb for so much, Ben is as culpable as they are.

I know in the past this meant something and thought I'd bring it forward in case it is wanted now.

fantasy suite prices

Lauren: had the Villa Plantana @ 1,058.00 pp/pn - sleuthed out as correct location pics match show

Jojo: had the Romeo/Juliet Villa(per sign on door) at Ochi, Ocho Rios next door to Royal Plantation @ 465.00 pp/pn

Caila: had the Prime Minister at Plantation @ 672.00 pp/pn - sleuthed out as the correct location

This episode was painful to watch. I'm really questioning if Ben is ready for marriage. At this point 'loving two women' and having "TWO TRUE LOVES" (Whaaaaaaaat??!! Out of all the kisses and explosions of love and everything in between...this quote from Ben makes me question his 26 year old self. We're the same age but even i know thats IMPOSSIBLE BEN.) Ben is in no way shape or form ready to propose to neither jojo or lauren. Going into the last week I hope all Ben did was prey and really analyze this 'bubble' he's surrounded in. He's said multiple times in interviews post show and to laurens family if he gets down on one knee and proposes at the end of this-it will be because hes fully committed and really ready. I look forward to the proposal.

I don't know if I'm the only one asking myself this but HOW THE HECK DID WE GO FROM BEN POSSIBLY LETTING JOJO GO IN EPISODE 8 TO THE GROWTH IN HIS FEELINGS (LOVE) ON EPISODE 9. Blows my mind because honestly i didn't see it. I thought it was fleeting and purely physical... albeit it's still very physical I can see theres a emotional connection as well. Idk im so confused. Thanks producers.

***i swear if Ben in his People Blog doesn't give an inclination to his F1 i will lose it. I've just about had it with him playing Mr. Nice guy with all the girls. Dude you're engaged to one of them. Be more loyal.

limoncello wrote:Sorry for another lengthy post of mine, I seem to love doing them haha. these are all my opinions:
 
1.       I’m kind of irritated that they switched the order of Lauren and Jojo’s date, but I understand it’s for good television.
2.       Two very different ILYs. I’m really trying to be as unbiased as I can be because I like Jojo as well, but I cried during Lauren’s, it was such a precious moment to see them unguarded, fully emotional.
3.       Two very different reactions to Ben’s ILY. Jojo was very aware of the fact that he is not supposed to say that, knowing “unwritten rules” of this reality show. It felt like she was primarily more shocked that he dared to say that on cameras, and then the meaning sunk in later. Lauren’s reaction was very “I can’t express how amazing I feel right now and you don't know how much you mean to me.” That’s my interpretation.
4.       BenJo relationship is so very physical.
5.       I thought Caila looked the most beautiful of all the episodes the morning after, when she sat on that bed saying good morning to Ben. I really felt sorry seeing her cry so much, and that comes from a person who didn’t particularly like her during the show. I guess I’m not that indifferent towards her.
6.       Caila seems to have set up a perfect back story for being the next ette, but I’m still rooting for Jojo to get it.
7.       If Ben and Lauren really are together now, this must have been really hard to cope with, if not still is.
8.       Ben, there’s no such thing as two true loves, don’t be greedy. I came in to justify his state of mind, lack of energy whatever before watching, hoping the previews were just trying to mislead us, but he said those three words way too many times for me to be on his side in this dispute. I know people have been giving Ben a lot of backlash during this season but this is the first time I felt really disappointed in him. I hope he at least owns up to everything.

9.       Lauren sky-rocketed to my most favourite beings on this show, closely followed by not Ben, not the twins or Jojo, but the sea turtles.

Nailed it. Totally agree. He'd better do some fixin' in his blog today. Last night was bad.

After sleeping on it, I still feel like banging Ben's had against the wall and saying "WTF, Ben?!"

I think the look of seriousness he had on Lauren's date, which some think was him being distant, was the look of guilt. He knew what his date with Jojo was like and here was the woman he has been crazy about all this time, finally telling him how much she loves him.

Also, I now know why he looked so uncomfortable on Bachelor Live when the preview about 2 ILY's were shown!

i hope he writes something in his blog to redeem himself because at the moment sadly my opinions of him are quite low

nutty1 wrote:After sleeping on it, I still feel like banging Ben's had against the wall and saying "WTF, Ben?!"

I think the look of seriousness he had on Lauren's date, which some think was him being distant, was the look of guilt. He knew what his date with Jojo was like and here was the woman he has been crazy about all this time, finally telling him how much she loves him.

Also, I now know why he looked so uncomfortable on Bachelor Live when the preview about 2 ILY's were shown!

Yup! I think he knew he royally screwed up.

I don't think this means he's a bad person and my opinion of him hadn't sinked, I just think he dropped ball, wouldn't be the first lead they've successfully messed with. Name of the game unfortch.

Nutty I agree..I also believe that he discussed it with Lauren during their private time in theFD..she did that interview saying that it could be possible being in love with two people..

And we must remember that her date was last!

I'm still at a complete loss. Lauren could have been totally prepped about what was to come (she better have), but even still, watching this and feeling this huge SM reaction- wishing her strength. Ben too, though he's the one that created this mess.

The finale previews make it seem like Ben is pulling away from Lauren and ramping it up with JoJo. That better be a misdirect. For me to get back on the BenLau train, I need and AWESOME last episode for them, and a solid ATFR appearance as well. If they make it, they won't be the only couple to survive a very messy ending. Des/Chris, Jason/Molly, and Kaitlyn/Shawn were all super messy.

CH's blog, I haven't even read it yet.....

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/chris-harrison-blogs-39-the-bachelor-1375844251738166.html