The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - Episode 9 - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

sosleepy wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:

sosleepy wrote:Do we know with certainty that heartfelt ILY was to JoJo? Last I checked, it was still inconclusive.

Des was heartfelt in her love for Brooks. Jason was heartfelt in his love for Melissa.

Even if Ben is SUPER heartfelt about JoJo and genuinely confused... At the end of the day, he "loves someone else... More" to quote him from the promos.

I am kinda bent out of shape over this. But reading your comparisons makes sense . Guess it's actually hearing Ben say it to two is troublesome. This is new territory . Des only said it when Brooks wanted to leave. She exhaled and spilled her heart out. But it does show the lead can make due and a life with either of their F2's.

Don't get bent out of shape. We don't even really know how it plays out yet. I'm going to wait until I crucify him.  Honestly, if they are meant to be they will be, regardless of what happened while they were filming a very odd, and not true to life reality show. And if not, well- then they aren't worth my time obsessing over them and best they break up sooner than later so I move on! Haha

The older I get, I realize life isn't black and white. So many shades of grey. If it were *me* in Lauren's position and he was communicative, and we were really in love, I'd be forgiving. Maybe that's just me though.

It might be the battle of the girl who made Ben's world stop vs the girl who rocks Ben's world. Geez, can we just skip the WTA? It's going to be just fodder anyway with what's up ahead.

sosleepy wrote:Woah man, everyone needs to calm the heck down! Lol. This show is NOT real life under normal circumstances. Even worse case scenario and Ben really "fell in (Bachelor bubble) love" with JoJo, and told her, and was super confused... It doesn't spell doom for Ben and Lauren necessarily. It's how they are handling it now, in real life. Let's take a look at some past success couples and what they dealt with during filming:

Des: Chris wouldn't have even been her pick if Brooks stayed! She told the cameras and Brooks over and over she was in love with him and he was the one! Chris and Des have now been married a year!

Ashley: she slept with Ben F. (Ewwwww). And she let him propose. She's been married to JP for a few years + kid!

Jason: he told someone else he LOVED her and slept with her AND friggen PICKED her. Now he's married to Molly for like 6 years + a kid.

It's about how they are handling it now. If Ben is upfront with Lauren about everything, if she is even a smidge understanding about the odd circumstances they were in and realizes he wasn't even really hers until FRC day, and they have good communication, they should be fine.

I don't hate Ben. I think he's doing a great job being in the moment, being kind, and all around being a good Bachelor. He shouldn't have told another woman he loves her, but I can see how this could happen. I feel bad for him.

THIS^^^^^

LOTS of alcohol + lack of sleep + stress + emotional and psychological manipulation + the bachelor bubble = NOTHING THAT RESEMBLES NORMALCY. Nothing about this show is what would happen in real life, so it's not going to fit in to the nice little box that we all want it to. Because of his out of control puppy love for Lauren (especially coming off that emotional HTD), I think production went in to Jamaica, desperate to salvage the story line. I'm guessing he was being puppeteered to the point that he probably didn't know which end was up, had too much to drink, and threw out the "I love you" - which, by the way, to me looked like a frat boy saying it to his pledge brother after a keger.  It's possible that waking up the next day and being faced with the realization of what he had said to JoJo (?), is what drove him in to Lauren's arms for good.

Lauren seems to have a good head on her shoulders and clearly has a strong relationship with the other girls post show. For the most part, this whole season was a giant love fest.  It's not unrealistic to think that she understands that Ben formed strong relationships with some of the women that were hard to sort thru - what's real and what isn't.... do I love this person or am I IN LOVE WITH THIS PERSON - It's such an accelerated process.....it's not hard to imagine how feelings can be heighten and confusing.  I just think they all have a greater understanding of the bachelor bubble than we on the outside could ever have.  

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not a stretch for me to believe that Lauren (or any F1) is capable of showing the lead the grace and forgiveness that is needed for them to navigate thru the crap storm that this show creates.

It's just a TV show, it's just a TV show. ;)

Ben picked Lauren, and he picked well. I'm guessing they are fine.
IRL, I don't think JoJo is over her ex, and I don't think she's compatible with Ben, nor would he fit with her family. I don't think it would have taken long for either JoJo or Ben to figure that out. I think he and Lauren have moved on from this long ago, and are just bracing themselves dor the fall out on television. And if I'm wrong, oh well. I liked their love story while it lasted!

sosleepy wrote:It's just a TV show, it's just a TV show. ;)

Ben picked Lauren, and he picked well. I'm guessing they are fine.
IRL, I don't think JoJo is over her ex, and I don't think she's compatible with Ben, nor would he fit with her family. I don't think it would have taken long for either JoJo or Ben to figure that out. I think he and Lauren have moved on from this long ago, and are just bracing themselves dor the fall out on television. And if I'm wrong, oh well. I liked their love story while it lasted!

Make so, sleepy ! I embrace all your sentiments.

All I know is MF is loving this as no matter who the F1 is (spoiled or Foiler) he has people talking and are confused. I see high ratings on Monday which means MF wins. That is all he cares about.

ALL IMHO

And that's what makes me dislike mike even more that that's just me I guess. He doesn't care who gets hurt or what happens as long as it makes for good tv. I know it's his job but it still bothers me.

[JMHO]

In my mind it was not JoJo who made Ben's world stop when he first met her. It was not JoJo that Ben explained the kind of love he was looking for to. It was not with JoJo's sister that Ben shed a tear when he thought about what was special about her. IMO it was not JoJo that Ben admitted he had been in love with for a while.

I know no more than any of us what we will see over the rest of the season, but I actually hope that Lauren has watched every minute of every episode of this season so far; if she has then she will know just how deeply Ben cares for her and loves her because that's been pretty darn clear to me.

[/JMHO]

For whoever asked above, no, we do not know conclusively who that last ILY is said to.

nutty1 wrote:For whoever asked above, no, we do not know conclusively who that last ILY is said to.

^^^ Which raises a good point. That clip is so tightly cropped that I don't think they want us to be able to figure it out. I keep wondering what they are hiding and why do they seem to be trying to hide it so well?

I'm trying to find the interview, but in one of the interviews I read or saw with Ben post filming, he was asked what qualities he was looking for in a mate. The thing that stood out to me, was he said he was looking for someone with grace and compassion, because he is not perfect. Maybe he was pointing at Lauren. Maybe they hashed this out months ago, and she showed nothing but grace and forgiveness. If she really loves this guy, if she genuinely likes JoJo (all indications point yes), if she gets this process is weird and should not necessarily be held to the same standards as real life, she'll understand and forgive her man.

I do think Ben was broken up about sending JoJo home- because he really doesn't like hurting people and he knew she would be hurt by him. But in watching that preview back, Ben still has tears when he's saying he's ready, he's really ready- to ask someone to spend his life with him. That's what the Bachelor needs to do at the end- he's been convinced (by tptb) that he's in love with two (even if the look on his face and his body language doesn't tell the same story)- and he has to make a choice. OFTEN (though not with Mesnick) tptb get the lead to make the "right" choice- at least it will last awhile and it's one that makes sense. I think we'll see a look of peace when he puts the ring on f1s finger, but tptb will play him all the way to the end. (Tptb probably like having the lead be someone who can be emotional- because they are able to produce all kinds of tears and angst- and frankly, those leads who don't and can't be manipulated that way end up with an experience like Juan Pablo's).

Lucas15 wrote:

nutty1 wrote:For whoever asked above, no, we do not know conclusively who that last ILY is said to.

^^^ Which raises a good point. That clip is so tightly cropped that I don't think they want us to be able to figure it out. I keep wondering what they are hiding and why do they seem to be trying to hide it so well?

Lol they know how good the sleuthers here are and they are toying with them . I wish it was much ado about nothing because can I sustain? (Tongue in cheek , sorta)