Joelle Fletcher - (JoJo) - Bachelor 20 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

NCGalBecca wrote:I really don't see any "acting" from her other than the fed lines that they force everyone to say in the ITMs. What I also see in her is a realist who knows that her chances of being the one are 1/25 so she wasn't a lovesick chaser/gusher from moment one about a guy she spends a few hours with every week at the beginning.

Based on her background, it appears that she is used to being in sophisticated social circles and is also comfortable around men. She isn't desperate like so many that come on the show so often act. She appears to have a good life all on her own. She admitted that her last relationship was rough so she is often guarded with her feelings but is still warm and supportive of Ben. She opens up when she receives reciprocation.

**edited**
JMO

Lucas15 wrote:

avacaroline wrote:So this has always been my question....let's assume, for the sake of conversation, that JoJo was playing a role. How aware of this would she be?  Is it something as blatant as, "here's what we need you to do and say" or is it a case of master puppeteering?

IMO Kasha told an excellent (true) story that is mostly in the category of "here's what we need you to do and say" so let me tell one that I was told about where it was a combination of "here's what we want you to do" combined with master puppeteering:

One female lead was told that they wanted her F2 to propose but she had no intention whatsoever of accepting - she wanted someone else to propose. She balked and things got really ugly and finally she caved and told them "OK - I'll do it but you need to make sure he knows I'm not going to accept". They told her it was fine - they would take care of it - they just needed the footage for dramatic purposes, and she believed them.

They lied to her - not only didn't they tell the poor guy she wasn't going to accept, they told him she wanted him to propose because she wanted to pick him.


It didn't go well - as you might imagine.

Kashathediva wrote:There maybe outlined story lines. I have heard talk about that on large boards for staff purposes as seen in UnReal.

IIRC one female contestant (could it maybe have been Ashley Salter on one of her famous walks?) stumbled into the control room in the mansion and saw the story boards and mentioned this "on air" (she thought they were betting on cast members) and CH "covered" by calling it the accounting department.

Seabear wrote:

NCGalBecca wrote:I really don't see any "acting" from her other than the fed lines that they force everyone to say in the ITMs. What I also see in her is a realist who knows that her chances of being the one are 1/25 so she wasn't a lovesick chaser/gusher from moment one about a guy she spends a few hours with every week at the beginning.

Based on her background, it appears that she is used to being in sophisticated social circles and is also comfortable around men. She isn't desperate like so many that come on the show so often act. She appears to have a good life all on her own. She admitted that her last relationship was rough so she is often guarded with her feelings but is still warm and supportive of Ben. She opens up when she receives reciprocation.

**edited**
JMO

Very good post.  I share your sentiments.  My opinion of JoJo took a turn for the positive based on her reaction to Ben telling her ILY.  The reaction, expression on her face, confusion followed by real joy in her ITM (bathing suit) following showed true emotion.  Because JoJo does have experience and an understanding of how Reality TV works and because she is familiar with the Bachelor process when Ben told her the ILY she was genuine in her response. And as he repeatedly told her ILY and they had their sexy time in the FS as Ben continued to reassure her of the honesty of his feelings....I saw JoJo let her guard down and put aside her skepticism and reality tv knowledge because she trusted Ben and had real feelings for him.  I don't think JoJo was playing any preconceived role at this time And I put full responsibility on Ben for the devastating blindside he is going to deliver at JoJo's expense.

Some like JoJo and some like Lauren But I think both woman were being sincere in their feelings for Ben and truly hoping at least at that moment in time to be the one who ended up with the ring and engaged to Ben.  I think they were both looking for their "happily ever after" and after how all this went down and as it continues to air...I am not convinced that either of the two women will find it in the end. I don't think either woman deserves to be questioned on her sincerity.  I expect we are going to see real emotion and major sadness on March 14.  We will also see happiness.

I put all the responsibility for the ILY to 2 women on Ben.  He said, he did it, regardless of his motivations or prodding Ben is at fault.  He did not need to take it to that next level and he should have had concern for the women's feeling and not just his own.  I don't think Ben is a bad guy....just an immature, needy, confused, relationally inexperienced, emotionally overwrought individual who put his feelings first and foremost in a very selfish way to the detriment of the two women.  He crushes one in the end and chooses one who gets an unwanted entire set of baggage to witness as Ben's epic struggle to choose the final woman plays out on TV.  I think Ben will try to have his Mom and Dad, the crew, CH, etc etc etc help with his choice.  IMO if the feelings were that strong and the struggle was that real....he was not ready to commit to either one yet. I have yet to see Ben take any personal responsibility for his actions and I hope he steps up and delivers that at the ATFR.  I also secretly hope the F2 lets him have it for the ILY's etc But I don't expect that to happen.

JMO

Seabear wrote:

NCGalBecca wrote:I really don't see any "acting" from her other than the fed lines that they force everyone to say in the ITMs. What I also see in her is a realist who knows that her chances of being the one are 1/25 so she wasn't a lovesick chaser/gusher from moment one about a guy she spends a few hours with every week at the beginning.

Based on her background, it appears that she is used to being in sophisticated social circles and is also comfortable around men. She isn't desperate like so many that come on the show so often act. She appears to have a good life all on her own. She admitted that her last relationship was rough so she is often guarded with her feelings but is still warm and supportive of Ben. She opens up when she receives reciprocation.

**edited**
JMO

Very good post.  I share your sentiments.  My opinion of JoJo took a turn for the positive based on her reaction to Ben telling her ILY.  The reaction, expression on her face, confusion followed by real joy in her ITM (bathing suit) following showed true emotion.  Because JoJo does have experience and an understanding of how Reality TV works and because she is familiar with the Bachelor process when Ben told her the ILY she was genuine in her response. And as he repeatedly told her ILY and they had their sexy time in the FS as Ben continued to reassure her of the honesty of his feelings....I saw JoJo let her guard down and put aside her skepticism and reality tv knowledge because she trusted Ben and had real feelings for him.  I don't think JoJo was playing any preconceived role at this time And I put full responsibility on Ben for the devastating blindside he is going to deliver at JoJo's expense.

Some like JoJo and some like Lauren But I think both woman were being sincere in their feelings for Ben and truly hoping at least at that moment in time to be the one who ended up with the ring and engaged to Ben.  I think they were both looking for their "happily ever after" and after how all this went down and as it continues to air...I am not convinced that either of the two women will find it in the end. I don't think either woman deserves to be questioned on her sincerity.  I expect we are going to see real emotion and major sadness on March 14.  We will also see happiness.

I put all the responsibility for the ILY to 2 women on Ben.  He said, he did it, regardless of his motivations or prodding Ben is at fault.  He did not need to take it to that next level and he should have had concern for the women's feeling and not just his own.  I don't think Ben is a bad guy....just an immature, needy, confused, relationally inexperienced, emotionally overwrought individual who put his feelings first and foremost in a very selfish way to the detriment of the two women.  He crushes one in the end and chooses one who gets an unwanted entire set of baggage to witness as Ben's epic struggle to choose the final woman plays out on TV.  I think Ben will try to have his Mom and Dad, the crew, CH, etc etc etc help with his choice.  IMO if the feelings were that strong and the struggle was that real....he was not ready to commit to either one yet. I have yet to see Ben take any personal responsibility for his actions and I hope he steps up and delivers that at the ATFR.  I also secretly hope the F2 lets him have it for the ILY's etc But I don't expect that to happen.

casjacknick wrote:

I can shed some light with a true story:
Seasons ago I was communicating with a male cast person(I believe it was Jillian's season). He had been selected for the season and was at the Meat and Geek.
He was approached by a producer with a rough outline for a role to play during his time on the show. It was a negative type role that the cast person did not want to pursue. It was a type of storyline he was going to be following. When the cast person mentioned his displeasure with this situation he was "let go" by production.
This cast person was not shown on the episode at all.
Now of course, I did not buy this story and was skeptical. The cast person showed me a photo taken with the entire group and the ette; the famous posed formal cast photo. Then he sent me link to cast bio pics. He was missing and another replaced him. The one replacing him was not in the formal cast photo.
Ironically not, the one replacing him had been eliminated night one at the Meat and Geek.  Since several cast play negative behavior type roles it was ambiguous which male cast took on that role.

Shayne Lamas obviously fell in like with Matt Grant and vice versa. It was pretty obvious that season she was fulfilling an acting debut.

WHAT?!?! Weird! I am straight freaking out! That's nuts! So what then? I mean Olivia is obvious for this sort of casting and the Leah stupidness, sure. I believe Jojo's hometown date was scripted to heck and back especially with the letter, but some of you really believe last week was scripted?! Dang. That's nuts. I mean he definitely doesn't look like such a bad guy if they both had scripts but that's..... wow. What? I still can't. I mean in the beginning he has a shot with most of the girls right? Or did the producers pick Lauren for him? What???? I am just.... lost right now. Kasha, you broke my brain.

Lucas15 wrote: snipped

I found the scene by the waterfall hard to believe also - not for one big thing but for many little things. JoJo's head shake and "What?" when Ben says ILY the first time just struck me as what you would get if you told someone (without good acting training) "Act surprised when Ben says ILY" and that was JoJo's interpretation of what acting surprised would look like. But I don't think real people in real situations would act that way - it was just that little bit of over the top reaction that left me behind. When Ben said ILY to JoJo I really didn't expect her to say "Can you say that?" Why is she thinking of show rules when she should be basking in the joy of hearing ILY from a man she is supposed to be in love with? As GA expected a bear hug - she should have given him a bear hug and all that should have been the only thing on her mind - Ben and a love that she feels - not the show and it's stupid "rules".

Eviebloom wrote:Also on the dog discussion.  Why would Ben say they were going to get a dog about Jojo?  Jojo already has a dog!  She just posted lots of photos of the dog.  I also am really suspicious that she posted that photograph after people here were posting about Ben mentioning getting a dog in an interview.  I also agree that other seasons the F2 put out posts that maybe seemed like they were F1, I believe Becca did that.  However TPTB may be encouraging them to do that.  Just my take on this discussion.  

ForeverLove wrote:Isn't that sometimes the ploy of coming in the show so soon after a breakup? So your ex can see what he's missing and all that . Then maybe pick you up at the airport to help heal your wounds. It's been done by others right? I read in an interview that she was still raw from the breakup. We saw it too.

mindless wrote:I still think of anyone was a scripted backup F1, it's Whitney. Something funny going on there from day 1. Scripted wedding crashing, lack of chemistry, strange behaviour after the show, no FS sex even according to Whitney in some recent interview...

grace8136 wrote:

ForeverLove wrote:Isn't that sometimes the ploy of coming in the show so soon after a breakup? So your ex can see what he's missing and all that . Then maybe pick you up at the airport to help heal your wounds. It's been done by others right? I read in an interview that she was still raw from the breakup. We saw it too.

I thought JoJo said it had been 5 months, but then Chad's letter said 39 days??

mindless wrote:I still think of anyone was a scripted backup F1, it's Whitney. Something funny going on there from day 1. Scripted wedding crashing, lack of chemistry, strange behaviour after the show, no FS sex even according to Whitney in some recent interview...

IA. Sometimes or maybe most times, the scripted safety net F1 or F2 aren't aware that they are just that. JoJo was wise to that, but the ily transformed her into a believer imo. The things Ben said in the ocean on the pig date could also be seen as trying to convince her that his time with Lauren was just for the show and for her not to make anything out of it. He said some other things to get her there too.

jmo.

NCGalBecca wrote:I really don't see any "acting" from her other than the fed lines that they force everyone to say in the ITMs. What I also see in her is a realist who knows that her chances of being the one are 1/25 so she wasn't a lovesick chaser/gusher from moment one about a guy she spends a few hours with every week at the beginning.

Based on her background, it appears that she is used to being in sophisticated social circles and is also comfortable around men. She isn't desperate like so many that come on the show so often act. She appears to have a good life all on her own. She admitted that her last relationship was rough so she is often guarded with her feelings but is still warm and supportive of Ben. She opens up when she receives reciprocation.

I don't really understand this type of character bashing that so often happens now. Especially when it doesn't match what the lead is saying on the show and in the press about her. If she's a phony, then, he is, too.

So often, whenever the favorite's perfect bubble is threatened or might actually be less than ideal, then the negative commentary must begin against the others when there is no proof. Especially, in this case, when I feel the criticism squarely belongs to Ben. What's laughable is, that based on the show's record, the final match is often not so perfect after all and it's mostly about fame chasing and business relationships. JMO