The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

Buckeye_Fan wrote:I could swear I saw a preview earlier in the season in which Ben was on a balcony, gripping the railing and crying or at least looking anguished.  I could see that being called a 3/4 Mesnick, because he didn't quite lean over the railing as much.  Am I dreaming?

We have seen it in SCs. The color of his shirt actually reminds me of the shirt he wore in the FD episode -- the one he wore to the RC. I don't know if it is the same one, but usually the lead doesn't wear a shirt more than once, does he? I could definitely be wrong though.

Mint green shirt

Didn't he wear that shirt to the FD RC? I remember it was linen, but can't remember the color.

Coming a bit late to the party (bust day) but to add a few comments to recent discussions:

1 - Who was Ben calling on the phone? I did an audio edit and spliced together the "Hello" from the FRC phone call and the voice of Ben's mother when he called her during the M&G. A link to my post and audio edit file that you can all listen to and form your own opinions on is here - Link. IMO that's the same voice and Ben calls his mother just before he proposes to his F1 - it's a "bookend" to the first phone call to close the loop - and tell his mother he has resolved his confusion over who to choose.

2 - In this preview there are several interesting things:

At :26 we see Ben talking to Lauren and hear (but not see) him saying "I knew I loved you but my mind is in 1000 places"
At :41 we see a shot of Lauren (presimably pre FRC) - praying. IIRC Ben has said he prayed in the time leading up to the FRC so I can understand why the gave us this clip of Lauren doing the same thing.
At :45 we see and hear Lauren saying she can't picture her life without Ben which interestingly seems to mirror the basis that Ben has explained for his final decision - he chose the girl he couldn't live without.
At :52 we see a very distraught Lauren in a helicopter - IMO probably heading to the FRC. IMO the sun which is providing mosty of the lighting on Lauren is near the horizon, consistent with late in the day

3 - On this page there is an analysis Sophie did and also one I did of the original preview from the last Bachelor Live show - much of which is also used in the above preview link. It shows where we both agreed edits were done to take scenes and words out of context and make things seem different than they probably really were. In some cases we've now seen the episode where those words were spoken and IMO we were right. Simple example - we heard Ben say "Honestly I do love you" and felt the word Honestly was edited in. We have now seen the scene and he didn't say honestly - only I do love you. I remain cautious about drawing any conclusions based on the sequence of things seen in the preview - it is so sliced and diced.

4 - It seems that JoJo is approaching the FRC quite confident and Lauren is scared out of her skin. IMO this is exactly what the show wants at the ending - an F2 who believes she is F1 and an F2 who greatest fear is she's F2. For accomplishing this I have to tip my hat to the producers for a job well done. IMO it sucks that they have done it so well.

5 - In the above mentioned preview where Ben says "I knew I loved you but my mind is in 1000 places" it seems to me that he is telling Lauren something about his confusion (likely over his feelings for JoJo) so he may not have told Lauren he had said ILY to JoJo until after the finale, but he did tell her something. I know a lot has been said about his conversations with JoJo and how well they communicate, but they haven't communicated about anything this complicated and difficult to talk about. That Ben and Lauren seem to have been able to have this conversation with that degree of honesty on Ben's part makes a huge statement to me about their ability to make a relationship work.
JMHO

Lucas15 wrote:Coming a bit late to the party (bust day) but to add a few comments to recent discussions:

1 - Who was Ben calling on the phone? I did an audio edit and spliced together the "Hello" from the FRC phone call and the voice of Ben's mother when he called her during the M&G. A link to my post and audio edit file that you can all listen to and form your own opinions on is here - Link. IMO that's the same voice and Ben calls his mother just before he proposes to his F1 - it's a "bookend" to the first phone call to close the loop - and tell his mother he has resolved his confusion over who to choose.

2 - In this preview there are several interesting things:

At :26 we see Ben talking to Lauren and hear (but not see) him saying "I knew I loved you but my mind is in 1000 places"
At :41 we see a shot of Lauren (presimably pre FRC) - praying. IIRC Ben has said he prayed in the time leading up to the FRC so I can understand why the gave us this clip of Lauren doing the same thing.
At :45 we see and hear Lauren saying she can't picture her life without Ben which interestingly seems to mirror the basis that Ben has explained for his final decision - he chose the girl he couldn't live without.
At :52 we see a very distraught Lauren in a helicopter - IMO probably heading to the FRC. IMO the sun which is providing mosty of the lighting on Lauren is near the horizon, consistent with late in the day

3 - On this page there is an analysis Sophie did and also one I did of the original preview from the last Bachelor Live show - much of which is also used in the above preview link. It shows where we both agreed edits were done to take scenes and words out of context and make things seem different than they probably really were. In some cases we've now seen the episode where those words were spoken and IMO we were right. Simple example - we heard Ben say "Honestly I do love you" and felt the word Honestly was edited in. We have now seen the scene and he didn't say honestly - only I do love you. I remain cautious about drawing any conclusions based on the sequence of things seen in the preview - it is so sliced and diced.

4 - It seems that JoJo is approaching the FRC quite confident and Lauren is scared out of her skin. IMO this is exactly what the show wants at the ending - an F2 who believes she is F1 and an F2 who greatest fear is she's F2. For accomplishing this I have to tip my hat to the producers for a job well done. IMO it sucks that they have done it so well.

5 - In the above mentioned preview where Ben says "I knew I loved you but my mind is in 1000 places" it seems to me that he is telling Lauren something about his confusion (likely over his feelings for JoJo) so he may not have told Lauren he had said ILY to JoJo until after the finale, but he did tell her something. I know a lot has been said about his conversations with JoJo and how well they communicate, but they haven't communicated about anything this complicated and difficult to talk about. That Ben and Lauren seem to have been able to have this conversation with that degree of honesty on Ben's part makes a huge statement to me about their ability to make a relationship work.
JMHO

Litta123 wrote:We have seen it in SCs. The color of his shirt actually reminds me of the shirt he wore in the FD episode -- the one he wore to the RC. I don't know if it is the same one, but usually the lead doesn't wear a shirt more than once, does he? I could definitely be wrong though.

(Litta's SC)

SC from the Epi 9 - FD Epi RC:




(My SC)

Thanks, LB. Here's sophie's SC. She doesn't play with the exposure like I do, so her cap is more true to color. To my eye, I think the "Mesnick" cap is more of a mint green shirt. The FD RC cap is showing more in the lime green category...so maybe not a match.


sophie's sc

nutty1 wrote:Maybe....he told TPTB that he was going to tell Lauren that he loved her, no matter what, no matter if she told him. So maybe the deal was "OK, you can, but you have to tell Jojo first".

But honestly, I think his ILY's to Jojo sounded sincere. I do not think Ben is that good an actor. And saying it multiple times make me think the same thing.

Yes his ILY to JoJo seemed sincere and would Ben deliberately mislead JoJo with ILY just so he could say it to Lauren? That seems like a terribly mean thing to do to JoJo. Especially knowing how hard it is for her to trust and open herself up.

sdmom wrote:I am not a fan of either girl, but I don't want to see someone hurt badly. Question: what do y'all think it's worse? Saying ILYs to multiple contestants or sleeping with them?

Speaking of.... The end of his answer here (underlined) in the Glamour interview is weird for Ben imo or maybe he just felt defensive.  Also I count 4 fantasy suites that he's been involved in not 3; or maybe he's not counting Kaitlyn? Or maybe he's only counting the sexy time?

Glamour: It's implied on the show that sex is happening in the fantasy suite—but we never hear anyone having a conversation about safe sex. Is that talk happening? 
Ben: Yeah, between the two people. The first thing though is that you're implying the two people are having sex. That isn't always happening. That doesn't need to be the case. The fantasy suite is meant for two people to be together away from everything. If two adults want to have that conversation about safe sex, then sure, it's up to them and go ahead and have that conversation. But I don't know if it always happens. I've only been involved in three fantasy suites in my life. I'm not usually involved in most seasons' fantasy suites, so I don't know.


http://www.glamour.com/entertainment/blogs/obsessed/2016/03/the-bachelors-ben-higgins-reve-1

2observe wrote:

sdmom wrote:I am not a fan of either girl, but I don't want to see someone hurt badly. Question: what do y'all think it's worse? Saying ILYs to multiple contestants or sleeping with them?

Now that you mentioned sleeping with them, did anyone determine why Ben was wearing a backpack when leaving Jojo's FSD, but didn't have it with Cailia(sp?) or Lauren?  It was brought up in one these threads yesterday.

Speaking of this, did anyone notice he had the backpack on when leaving, but when showing him walking down the path, he wasn't wearing it?

I have yet to see any significant proof of who Ben says that ILY to .. The one he sounds drunk

Rolly wrote:

nutty1 wrote:Maybe....he told TPTB that he was going to tell Lauren that he loved her, no matter what, no matter if she told him. So maybe the deal was "OK, you can, but you have to tell Jojo first".

But honestly, I think his ILY's to Jojo sounded sincere. I do not think Ben is that good an actor. And saying it multiple times make me think the same thing.

Yes his ILY to JoJo seemed sincere and would Ben deliberately mislead JoJo with ILY just so he could say it to Lauren? That seems like a terribly mean thing to do to JoJo. Especially knowing how hard it is for her to trust and open herself up.

Ben could have say the ILUs descreetly eta: to Lauren, and no one would have known.  It's been done before, according to articles that I've read in the past.

Jeepers wrote:I have yet to see any significant proof of who Ben says that ILY to .. The one he sounds drunk

You can see he's saying it to JoJo in the preview for the finale.