The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - F1 to F4 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

THANKS, SOPHIE!! Unreal...you caught every nuance.

tennischick80 wrote:THANKS, SOPHIE!! Unreal...you caught every nuance.

trying to remain factual as much as I can (which is hard as we all interpret 1 thing multiple ways depending on our experiences, preferences, etc.)

Episode 7

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Ep7 -  Warsaw

Description Ben gives of the girls to his parents:

Jojo: "unbelievably beautiful, I'm more myself I think around her than anybody else here"
Lauren: "there's something about her, since the moment I met her, that stands out. It will be kind of interesting to see how this week goes for us, because last week wasnt a great week. "

Lauren:

While Ben and girls talking in house, ITM about being anxious for time with Ben to clear the air after doubts from last week and Ben being told she was different with him and in the house.

1st 101 in his hometown, no DC, invites her in front of other girls (adding to existing unease?!)
Drive through Warsaw in red pickup truck, showing her the sites/his memories. Cute moment reliving his first kiss. (then THAT look)

Takes her to BYC which means a lot to him "home to some of the people that I love the most".
Voice over "I want Lauren to understand this place [...] she will have a better understanding of who I am".
Gets a Win-win bet with Ronny's half court shot for a kiss with Lauren (ends up being just a peck, because of the kids around I think)
Telling Lauren about the surprise about to blow the kids' minds, holding her strongly by the shoulders.
Revelation that Lauren is a basket-ball fan, used to play basket-ball.
1 on 1 play (she wins ;) )
Kids comments to Lauren "You love Ben", to camera "I think he;s gonna fall in love with her" and agreeing Lauren and Ben are gonna get married.
Tender moment court-side, kissing her forehead, kissing while holding her neck, gripping her shoulder
Lauren ITM: I'm so happy that Ben took me here, I'm so honored, this place here is such a huge part of who he is, to see it first hand, I get it. "

Evening time - walking hand in hand to his place: Matching outfits again
Lauren ITM about wanting to put last week's comments to rest.

Ben " You made this day, you did", talking about what was said about her. A lot of hands holding and caressing fingers on sofa. Couldn't sit any closer unless she was in his lap.
Ben "As my feelings increase for you, these are big questions in my life, huge questions and I dont want to be blindsided."
Lauren "I was worried that it would cast doubt in your mind, and that alone made me sick to my stomach. The reason that I am able to feel the way I do right now is because I can be my complete self around you" a lot of "terrified" in there too.
Ben: "You know that I care about you enough that like one thing that somebody else says about you wouldn't change everything" and "I want to let you know that today was that day that brought everything full circle and I do trust you" (caressing her shoulder). "You feel more confident now?"

Make out session follows, and cuddling on sofa (more tender than hot) - voice-over from Ben "this day it was challenging but it was beautiful". ITM "I'm really not questioning who Lauren is any more, I know the true Lauren and she is amazing"

Walking to Rex's, kissing in the street. Introduces her to his "forever friends" ITM: "she gets to see the real me" and they all toast to Lauren.
ITM: "Tonight as I'm sitting watching Lauren, I'm seeing a moment that I've been waiting for for years. where my girlfriend is sitting beside me and all I want to do is wrap her up and be like... you don't understand how awesome this is for me".
Lauren "Today was a true breakthrough In my feelings for Ben"

Then cuddle and kissing, including a laughing one she avoids (in-joke?) on the roof. Looking at peace (ok IMO )
Lauren straight to camera while nodding and almost embarrassed: "I'm not in love with Ben the Bachelor, I'm in love with Ben from Warsaw, Indiana [...] Oh Gosh, yeah, I'm in love with Ben".
Ends with them wrapped in each other and Ben kissing her forehead, both looking very happy and chilled.


Later Lauren asking Amanda about her 1-1 time after GDR.

RC: 1st rose (of only 3)


Jojo:

ITM before meeting with Ben on boat: Talking about wanting to get more confident in their relationship before introducing him to her family.
When Lauren invited on date, says that its hard to see Ben invite another girl on a date in front of them.
ITM: acknowledges Ben and Lauren connection on date previous week, and that seeing her getting first 101 makes her want to put her guard up. "I cant just forget about him and Lauren B's connection, coz its just so clear".

101 DC - ITM "I need a 1 on 1 to feel confident going into hometowns". Gets date "Let's find love in the windy city".

About to leave for 101, acknowledges how important Lauren's date (in his hometown doing things important to him) was. Wants to us the date to get rid of any doubts.
Ben ITM before date "It's kind of endearing to me that Jojo doesn't know how much I like her, even though I've told her multiple times how good things are between us".
Jojo arrive and jumps on Ben, very enthusiastic reunion. (my own aside - reminded me of Sean and Lindsey on the monkey beach) but no kissing.
Ben "I want her to feel special, I want her to know that I'm interested in her and I want to share these experiences with her"

Walking in street hand in hand, animated chatter. Arriving at Wrigley field, Ben tells her he is a huge Cubs fan. Message on front of arena inviting them in.
Nice shot of him holding her in his arms in front of him, fingers intertwined. Romantic violin music as they enter empty arena, Ben explain that the cubs are very important to him and his dad.
Piggy back ride to Mr and Mrs Higgins jerseys. Ben says "Mrs Higgins, the crowd goes wild".
Fun game of baseball ensues, until they collide/ meet on a base and hug.
Ben ITM " this date is an opportunity I thought I'd never have, and to bring Jojo on this date, perfect choice".

Ben and Jojo lying on the field, Ben "I get anxious to see you, like excited anxious".
Jojo ITM "Ben wants to badly for me to let myself fall, but I'm terrified, I'm scared because i like him so much"

Ben and Jojo sitting in field, him looking at her, her touching his lips and hair. Then hugging close
ITM Jojo "I dont feel safe enough to just give him my heart just yet"
Walking off the field (pretty sure her hand hanging on his back pocket)
Ben ITM: "I'm more myself around Jojo than any other woman in my life"
Then Jojo jumping up on/around Ben, and passionate kiss.
Ben ITM "Jojo and I's relationship has gone from me just being very attracted to her, to developing into this very deep relationship. There's this passion between us"
Climbing up to scoreboard, while Ben VO acknowledges Jojo has trust issues with the process.
"Jojo has loved the qualities in me that are more me than anything else, but I want her to be confident, I want her to know just how much I feel about her".

"Home Run!" then "Ben + Jojo" sign on front of Wrigfield's as we rejoin them for dinner in the middle of the field.
Ben VO then ITM "being here in Wrigley Fields with Jojo has been incredibly special to me. Jojo is someone that has continuously impressed me since the day I met her. I'm confident that I'm falling for Jojo. " then telling he wants her to be more confident so they can build on everything they have.
To Jojo "Wrigley's beautiful, but my view right now is pretty good too"
Ben starts telling her he knows how nervous she is but then says "I feel like every time I'm with you, things are really good". She tells him she is trying not to hold back. But then he says "when you're scared, sometimes it pulls me away too"
" There are moments where I'm like looking at this girl that I feel so close to, that I can laugh with and that girl like disappears and it makes me wonder why, it makes me wonder what's going on. "
Jojo "I feel scared and the easy thing to do would be to run, and just remove myself. "
Ben tells her he questions "to what extent your feelings are there" she tells him her insecurities have nothing to do with him, and comes from past relationships where she gave more than she got.
Tells him "I see so many qualities in you that I want from somebody that I want to spend my life with" and he jokes "come on Mrs Higgins". tells him gain she's scared but "I care about you more than anything" and he gets why she's scared and seems OK with it. She "If I wasn't feeling half of the things that I'm feeling, the idea of giving myself completely wouldn't care me as much".

Ben admits that he is scared that at the end, when he hopefully asks somebody to spend life with him.. "like this scares me for the answer"
ITM "Tonight she's allowed me to see the real Jojo, and I'm very excited about what Jojo and I have".
Jojo "I want you to know that my heart is ready to give to you, and it's because you asked me to hang in there. So just dont doubt me, coz I'm team Ben, I'm not going anywhere. "
Fun flirting Ben "Oh oh" Jojo "Mr Higgins" then kissing, including very tender one.
Jojo "Tonight something huge changed in my relationship with Ben. I'm not scared any more, I threw those fears out the window, and I just let myself fall"
Kissing standing in the field, her hand on his butt.

Jojo ITM "I like want to give myself to Ben because when I'm with Ben, I feel myself falling in love" - more kissing beside hear shaped dirt mark on the ground.
Ends with Ben asking her if she had a good day and she replies "the best day".

ItM after Emily sent home, where she says "it just goes to show that anything can happen. You just have to make use of the time that you have with Ben, cause you don't know when it's going to be the last"

RC: 2nd rose (of only 3)


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Taking a break! Not sure I'll do HTD recap, I think that is still very fresh in all our minds And I need to update my blog a little!

Unreal Sophie! That's lots of work and effort! One picture is worth a thousand words, but your thousand words brings things to light! Thank you!

I enjoy reading Luca's post. However, I wonder about the issue that may sway Lauren from going forward with accepting Ben (if she is F1) And thing that keeps me wondering is: On a couple of occasions she has said (in Liquor room) as she was leaving "if my family cannot accept Ben (para-phrasing)I don't know if I can move forward with him. When her sister asked if she had told him she loved him she said "no I wanted to wait until my family met him. (approval??) Then again she said something about wanting to tell Ben she loved him but after discussion with father she said (walking Ben to car) I want to but I just can't. Ben looked as if he were expecting more from her...when she said "see you tomorrow?) he looked away and then back and said "yeah" So my thoughts are: at end of this she goes with her heart and tells him and he is happy and calls her dad to reassure him and ask for her hand or he is "conflicted" over if Lauren is as into him as he is her. Or does he call JoJos family to reconfirm his comment about "the only way to revolve your concerns can/will be made by my actions in the future" and ask's for their approval to ask for her hand..which would squelch her big brothers concerns. Or she finally tells him and he has already discovered he loves someone else... Or he is calling his mom to let her know he is about to propose to the love of his life. Either one or none, it is going to be a good ending if Ben is happy with whomever he chooses. JMO

sharonchan wrote:I enjoy reading Luca's post. However, I wonder about the issue that may sway Lauren from going forward with accepting Ben (if she is F1) And thing that keeps me wondering is: On a couple of occasions she has said (in Liquor room) as she was leaving "if my family cannot accept Ben (para-phrasing)I don't know if I can move forward with him.  When her sister asked if she had told him she loved him she said "no I wanted to wait until my family met him. (approval??)  Then again she said something about wanting to tell Ben she loved him but after discussion with father she said (walking Ben to car) I want to but I just can't. Ben looked as if he were expecting more from her...when she said "see you tomorrow?) he looked away and then back and said "yeah" So my thoughts are: at end of this she goes with her heart and tells him and he is happy and calls her dad to reassure him and ask for her hand  or he is "conflicted" over if Lauren is as into him as he is her. Or does he call JoJos family to reconfirm his comment about "the only way to revolve your concerns can/will be made by my actions in the future" and ask's for  their approval to ask for her hand..which would squelch her big brothers concerns. Or she finally tells him and he has already discovered he loves someone else...  Or he is calling his mom to let her know he is about to propose to the love of his life. Either one or none,  it is going to be a good ending if Ben is happy with whomever he chooses. JMO

I've pondered the situation in which Lauren went into the HTD seemingly determined to tell Ben she loved him and then ended up not doing so - even though she told her sister that she loved Ben. While it seemed that it was her father's cautions about getting hurt I think there's more to it than that because her father didn't disapprove, and IMO the discussion between Ben and her father covered a lot more than what we saw. IMO it was production that wanted to make certain that Lauren didn't tell Ben on the HTD that she loved him and they may have invoked her fathers caution as a way of manipulating her to not say those words to Ben.

I think there's two possibilities surround the issue of asking for parental approval on HTD:

1 - Ben didn't ask any parent.
2 - He did ask Lauren's father but only Lauren's father and they couldn't show that without giving away the ending. IMO he certainly didn't ask JoJo's after the reception he got from them.

In the past the show has flown parents (fathers) out to the FRC location so the lead could ask permission before proposing - IIRC they flew DeAnna's father out but Brad didn't ask or propose, and I think they might have flown Emily's father out and Brad did ask and propose - but they never showed either. They could easily have done this with Lauren's father and if Ben didn't ask on the HTD IMO he did before the FRC.

IMO that phone call at the FRC is to his mother and (like the letter Catherine wrote to Sean) is just a little icing on the cake for a romantic FRC and doesn't materially affect anything.

Just curious here ....

In real life - has anyone (besides me) ever dated more than one person at a time before deciding to become exclusive with only one? If so - does anyone (besides me) care to share that experience?

Lucas15 wrote:

sharonchan wrote:I enjoy reading Luca's post. However, I wonder about the issue that may sway Lauren from going forward with accepting Ben (if she is F1) And thing that keeps me wondering is: On a couple of occasions she has said (in Liquor room) as she was leaving "if my family cannot accept Ben (para-phrasing)I don't know if I can move forward with him.  When her sister asked if she had told him she loved him she said "no I wanted to wait until my family met him. (approval??)  Then again she said something about wanting to tell Ben she loved him but after discussion with father she said (walking Ben to car) I want to but I just can't. Ben looked as if he were expecting more from her...when she said "see you tomorrow?) he looked away and then back and said "yeah" So my thoughts are: at end of this she goes with her heart and tells him and he is happy and calls her dad to reassure him and ask for her hand  or he is "conflicted" over if Lauren is as into him as he is her. Or does he call JoJos family to reconfirm his comment about "the only way to revolve your concerns can/will be made by my actions in the future" and ask's for  their approval to ask for her hand..which would squelch her big brothers concerns. Or she finally tells him and he has already discovered he loves someone else...  Or he is calling his mom to let her know he is about to propose to the love of his life. Either one or none,  it is going to be a good ending if Ben is happy with whomever he chooses. JMO

I've pondered the situation in which Lauren went into the HTD seemingly determined to tell Ben she loved him and then ended up not doing so - even though she told her sister that she loved Ben. While it seemed that it was her father's cautions about getting hurt I think there's more to it than that because her father didn't disapprove, and IMO the discussion between Ben and her father covered a lot more than what we saw. IMO it was production that wanted to make certain that Lauren didn't tell Ben on the HTD that she loved him and they may have invoked her fathers caution as a way of manipulating her to not say those words to Ben.

I think there's two possibilities surround the issue of asking for parental approval on HTD:

1 - Ben didn't ask any parent.
2 - He did ask Lauren's father but only Lauren's father and they couldn't show that without giving away the ending. IMO he certainly didn't ask JoJo's after the reception he got from them.

In the past the show has flown parents (fathers) out to the FRC location so the lead could ask permission before proposing - IIRC they flew DeAnna's father out but Brad didn't ask or propose, and I think they might have flown Emily's father out and Brad did ask and propose - but they never showed either. They could easily have done this with Lauren's father and if Ben didn't ask on the HTD IMO he did before the FRC.

IMO that phone call at the FRC is to his mother and (like the letter Catherine wrote to Sean) is just a little icing on the cake for a romantic FRC and doesn't materially affect anything.

Does anyone think that perhaps the phone call was to Mollie? Just throwing it out there...

I believe it's to his parents. He opened the show with a phone call to them and he will close the show by calling them. I bet he was still conflicted while they were visiting him, so now he will have clarity and is ready to propose to his F1. JMO.

Lucas15 wrote:Just curious here ....

In real life - has anyone (besides me) ever dated more than one person at a time before deciding to become exclusive with only one? If so - does anyone (besides me) care to share that experience?

I was a teenager/20 something in the mid/late 70's. So I'm laughing while reading this. I would go to a party with one guy and leave with another. Very common. That's what dating was.

Mommyof1 wrote:I believe it's to his parents.  He opened the show with a phone call to them and he will close the show by calling them.  I bet he was still conflicted while they were visiting him, so now he will have clarity and is ready to propose to his F1.  JMO.

I think this is it as well. I can also seeing it being like the letter in Sean's season and never actually shown on the show. ALL IMHO

Kashathediva wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:Just curious here ....

In real life - has anyone (besides me) ever dated more than one person at a time before deciding to become exclusive with only one? If so - does anyone (besides me) care to share that experience?

I was a teenager/20 something in the mid/late 70's. So I'm laughing while reading this. I would go to a party with one guy and leave with another. Very common. That's what dating was.

I haven't ever been in love with two people at once but I don't think it's impossible.  The problem I have is him being wreckless enough to say it to both of them in this situation. Dude, you're on national tv and you've been on 3 dates with them. I don't care if it is a manipulated reality and there's a bubble yada yada yade.....show some emotional maturity, for god's sakes!  Care enough about these two women to keep your pie hole shut until you figure it out.  

Also, going to step up on my soap box here, I've noticed with my 15 yr old daughter that kids these days throw around "I Love You's" like nobody's business.  In my opinion, the phrase has lost it's meaning and has become very cheapened.