The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - NO SPOILERS - Discussion

Seabear wrote:Katiebelle, I think all the reasons you mentioned were factors contributing to his ILY blunder. I'll add a few.
I also think being Bachelor Ben where all these women are clamoring for his attention 24/7 was a factor too.
Add to this that Ben is very emotional and a people pleaser.
With Ben's lack of relationship experience he was like a kid in a candy store...only the candy were women.
I think his intent was not to be malicious but was based in his real confusion and highly emotional state of mind and lack of impulse control. He clearly was not thinking rationally IMO.  I truly believe that he was seriously conflicted in trying to decide which one to choose F1 or F2 or F1 or F2 or F1 or F2 or F1.
Sadly his lack of self awareness to the ramifications of his ILY's seems destined to cause varying levels of emotional distress to Ben and both women.
I expect the finale will be an emotional roller coaster.  
I hope we hear a mea culpa from Ben on the ATFR and he takes responsibility for his actions.  I am not holding my breath though.  

Great post! Those are excellent points.

Do you think he'll fess up to his F1 before he proposes? It might be hard to do but IMO it's the best way forward - total honesty and contrition - and if it comes to it - begging. Let's hope that his F1 is forgiving.

I do wonder though, if TPTB, might have whispered in the girl's ears about what had happened because there was an ITM in the preview that has Lauren talking about him falling for them both. It seemed a bit of left field as I was positive that the girls didn't know that he had said ILY to both of them at the last RC - gosh that would have made it even more awkward than it already was!

My hypothesis is -- his need to be loved and his fear of not being loved contributed to him saying ily to both.

I think earlier on his feelings for one girl were spurred on by his fear of not being loved by another. i.e. he got attached to one girl or sought reassuring intimacy from one girl when things seem to be on the rocks with the other and. e.g. leah's accusation of lauren -- he attached himself (prolly subconsciously) more to jojo, jojo's family visit was a debacle -- he attached himself more to Lauren. And I think this ping ponging had him stay fullyyy open emotionally and mentally to being fully in love with both women.

If he felt self-confidence and no insecurity about the feelings of the girl he was first falling in love with I don't think he would push himself to try to fall in love with another.

I even sense the way guilt has been ravaging him at this time in the show after he said ILY. I don't think he's comfortable with the whole dating multiple ppl situation he's consistently mentioned how going from one girl to the next was not a feeling he was happy about or proud of.

On the other hand -- I do think the other aspect of the ILY confession is that he is young and as much as the 'high' of the love feelings in the early stages is something he careful about -- he repeatedly mentions from the beginning of the season how he doesn't want the "lust" to drive the relationship. I still think he gets swept up in the emotion cos he was in a bubble and unable to see these women out in the real world.

I do think in a real life scenario if he met both women at diff times in his life he'd have a not-too-short-term relationship with both. Cos there is a level of compatibility with both in terms of personality. If he did date them separately he'd be able to see their level of compatibility in the long term and figure out if he can settle down with either. The catch is -- this is not that scenario. He pushed himself to remain open cos he was scared of not having his love returned by the girl he first started falling for....and now we're here...

And that's how i'm starting to make sense of this crazy thing that ben did...

Wow! I am so happy to read all of your thoughts here! IA with you all about the reasons behind the 2 ILYs.

It is the premise of this show that 1 lead dates multiple people, which always results in heartache for everyone other than the F1. (And sometimes even FOR the F1! Right? haha) So, a certain level of heartbreak was inevitable for the F2. The ILYs just made that heartbreak worse (most likely), but in the realm of heartbreak, how much worse? I'm not sure.

This season kind of reminds me of Jason's season, in which he proposed to Melissa only to reject her at ATFR and pick Molly. That was controversial, but, again, it all came down to the lead doing what he felt was right for HIMSELF in the end. And, to me, that is the premise of this whole show. The lead is the person with all the power. The lead calls the shots. Everyone other than the F1 is collateral damage. Always has been that way. Always will be that way.

I am not thrilled by the fact that Ben told both women ILY. Yes, it muddied the waters and tarnished his good-guy brand. But, IMO, it may have been an unavoidable part of the process for Ben. I'll expand more on this in a future post.

Mia

I have being reading all the comments, so I rewatched both dates over and over, all I keep saying is " OMG, he loves both women deeply". I really like Ben, he has just become my all time fave bach.  but I think he will pick L because her family is normal (no drama), I think Jojo family messed up for her, but will see.

This season is by far, my fave, and Ben has suddenly become my all time favorite bachelor. The honesty and thoughfulness he put into each relationswhip makes him one of the most caring bachelor.

IMO, returning the ILY helps the F2 with closure, will see at AFRC. At the end of the journey, after all has settled, the F2 will know that their love to Ben was not in vain, they were loved back, but bcs of the show setting, he loved someone else more. And the F! will always know that Ben loves them so much that he could not let them go.

I know this sound crazy, but looking at past seasons, I think Nick would have had closure if Andi had said "ILY, but I love Josh more", same with Nick/Kathlyn. IMO, this has hurt Nick more, leaving him with no closure, think about it, twice he gives love fully(emptied himself), but he gets nothing in return, all he gets is (you 're not the one), to me that's cruel, bcs if you go back watch their last dates, you will see that the lead loved the F1,2,or 3 too, they just didn't say it.

So, I command him for treating each relationship as the only one he has at the time, and returning their love when he felt it. Isn't that the premise of the show?
IMO, he didn't make a mistake, this is how it should be. Everyone should say how they feel, when they feel it, and not just the F1,2or3.
IMO, Ben is not sorry he returned their ILYs, his problem is choosing btw both loves, . This is just my opinion.

Maggenzm, I've been thinking along those same lines. In the long run, saying ILY might be the greatest gift Ben could have given his F2. How many times when the relationship goes awry does the dumped person second guess themselves, wondering how she could have misread the situation so badly?

The ILY does give a degree of validation, imo. Frankly, it might make the healing process go more quickly, knowing that you can trust your heart and that you did nothing wrong. Could it even open the door for the F2 to become the eventual Bachelorette?

JMO

Maggenzm and Litta,
I agree with you two. What I wrote above (questioning How much worse would the heartache be for the F2 after hearing ILY?) is along that same line of reasoning. The F2 always says "I feel like a fool" or thinks "I was used", etc. Typically a temporary self-doubting, self-loathing, or angry reaction after being let go. Why? Because they feel like they didn't "read" the situation correctly, that their instincts were all off. That, I think, is one of the most damaging aspects of participating in the show. The people (temporarily) lose faith in themselves and their ability to judge things. Then, usually the lead makes an *** out of themselves post-show and the F2 breathes a sigh of relief. Haha. But, with Ben, even though he is young and relatively inexperienced in love, I do find him to be a genuine and caring person. If he is able to articulate his thoughts and feelings to the F2, about how he was in love but not as fully in love with them, then I think he has a shot at coming out of this nearly unscathed. But, again, using Jason as the poster child for a messy path to finding his Mrs Right, as long as Ben follows his heart what more can we ask of him? IMO. So, IA with you when it comes to the double ILYs. At the onset the ILYs may cause a blindside, but they may actually help the F2 get passed this chapter in her life more easily and quickly. It really all depends on how Ben explains himself. I don't think it makes Ben a monster. In fact, it makes him seem more real in my eyes. Hopefully he can compose himself and explain everything to everyone. Again JMO.

Duplicate

MiaHawk wrote:Maggenzm and Litta,
I agree with you two. What I wrote above (questioning How much worse would the heartache be for the F2 after hearing ILY?) is along that same line of reasoning. The F2 always says "I feel like a fool" or thinks "I was used", etc. Typically a temporary self-doubting, self-loathing, or angry reaction after being let go. Why? Because they feel like they didn't "read" the situation correctly, that their instincts were all off. That, I think, is one of the most damaging aspects of participating in the show. The people (temporarily) lose faith in themselves and their ability to judge things. Then, usually the lead makes an *** out of themselves post-show and the F2 breathes a sigh of relief. Haha. But, with Ben, even though he is young and relatively inexperienced in love, I do find him to be a genuine and caring person. If he is able to articulate his thoughts and feelings to the F2, about how he was in love but not as fully in love with them, then I think he has a shot at coming out of this nearly unscathed. But, again, using Jason as the poster child for a messy path to finding his Mrs Right, as long as Ben follows his heart what more can we ask of him? IMO. So, IA with you when it comes to the double ILYs. At the onset the ILYs may cause a blindside, but they may actually help the F2 get passed this chapter in her life more easily and quickly. It really all depends on how Ben explains himself. I don't think it makes Ben a monster. In fact, it makes him seem more real in my eyes. Hopefully he can compose himself and explain everything to everyone. Again JMO.

Hey Mia, thanks for your comments. And based on what he did with Caila, I think he would be able to bring a little comfort to the F2, I found him very considerate, JMO

At one viewing party, a friend of mine said that Ben heals you as he breaks up with you. If he loves both of these girls, I imagine that he is showing them both that until the bitter end and that he'll find the words needed for the F2 to understand his choice. At least, I hope that happens since I like Ben.

It's good that perfect Ben has a bit of a tarnished halo now. It's better to be human rather than perfect.

Mia, welcome back! I remember your posts from Emily/Arie's season--such eloquence.

veg_out wrote:At one viewing party, a friend of mine said that Ben heals you as he breaks up with you. If he loves both of these girls, I imagine that he is showing them both that until the bitter end and that he'll find the words needed for the F2 to understand his choice. At least, I hope that happens since I like Ben.

It's good that perfect Ben has a bit of a tarnished halo now. It's better to be human rather than perfect.

Mia, welcome back! I remember your posts from Emily/Arie's season--such eloquence.

ITA Veg!!

veg_out wrote:At one viewing party, a friend of mine said that Ben heals you as he breaks up with you. If he loves both of these girls, I imagine that he is showing them both that until the bitter end and that he'll find the words needed for the F2 to understand his choice. At least, I hope that happens since I like Ben.

It's good that perfect Ben has a bit of a tarnished halo now. It's better to be human rather than perfect.

Mia, welcome back! I remember your posts from Emily/Arie's season--such eloquence.

ITA Veg!!

Litta123 wrote:Maggenzm, I've been thinking along those same lines. In the long run, saying ILY might be the greatest gift Ben could have given his F2. How many times when the relationship goes awry does the dumped person second guess themselves, wondering how she could have misread the situation so badly?

The ILY does give a degree of validation, imo. Frankly, it might make the healing process go more quickly, knowing that you can trust your heart and that you did nothing wrong. Could it even open the door for the F2 to become the eventual Bachelorette?

JMO

ITA Litta, in addition, I like all F3, any one of them would make a great bachelorette