Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #2

[albean99]

LoveMe!

I object to those who are saying that Ben fans are defending him while bashing JP for jealousy. There may have been ones who did that but most of the posts were about the jealousy edit and not about JP as a person. We saw it on out tvs but have yet to see Ben walking away. If the edit makes him look bad then we'll have a comparison but right now it's too early for any pot calling the kettle black comments like I've seen on this thread.

[Cecilia]

The whole conversation on that new clip is ridiculous. There is nothing JP could say to change her mind about him? She doesn't even know him? Her sister really screwed up here on national tv. And mom has barely anything to say from what we have seen. I'd be crying if I was Ashley because who wants their family to treat someone they love that way. Want to fast forward through that all scene on Monday night.

[JBF]

More video of the sister talking about JP. Poor JP:(

http://www.etonline.com/media/video/2011/07/112840/index5.php

Wow! this one is harder to watch than the first clip. I hate that she made JP fell defeated! :Frown:

Thanks everybody for these links... Also, San, you Fantasy Date video was nice and complete.

[JBF]

More video of the sister talking about JP. Poor JP:(

http://www.etonline.com/media/video/2011/07/112840/index5.php

Wow! this one is harder to watch than the first clip. I hate that she made JP fell defeated! :Frown:

Thanks everybody for these links... Also, nice to see an upload of the Fantasy Date video complete.

[Alanna]

The whole conversation on that new clip is ridiculous. There is nothing JP could say to change her mind about him? She doesn't even know him? Her sister really screwed up here on national tv. And mom has barely anything to say from what we have seen. I'd be crying if I was Ashley because who wants their family to treat someone they love that way. Want to fast forward through that all scene on Monday night.

I know, I'm baffled why there's "nothing he can do" about this? Huh? :greenman: Also, I'm confused how it's possibly "not personal" and "just being an older, protective sis" when it's okay for Brad (Brad!) or Ben to propose and not JP.

[MaggieMae]

Does the sister ever give a real reason as to why she didn't approve of JP at the ATFR? I mean it happens where your family or friends aren't all going to like the person you like, but she just doesn't seem to be able to articulate the "why"

[Guest]

I can already feel myself getting protective of Ashley and it's not even Sunday night yet. Her sister irks me to nooo end in the new previews. I just want to hug poor Ash without even seeing the MTP portion yet. I'm sure it was over produced to some extent or whatever, but if she (big sis) is dense enough to not see her little sister breaking down on more than one occasion over their opinion of JP she needed to wake up and smell the roses. I know this is way back when and her opinion has changed but I really hope she takes this and learns from it, no one should be judged the way JP was judged upfront.

I'm with you, Carrie. I'm actually feeling even more protective of JP. He is going to be devastated. To have that dark cloud hanging over their special day is so sad. I know they will still be ecstatic, but it has to be in the back of their minds.

Which leads me to wonder if this were not the real reason JP is worried pre-FRC, rather than his awareness of the "other guy"....

[sjcaligurl]

People are already bashing Ashley and ready to hang her because she let two GROWN MEN who LOVED HER propose to her - w/o regard for the circumstances that led up to it - let alone that the point of the guys getting to the end is to propose.

Ben is going to get hurt because he doesn't get picked. It shouldn't matter if he got down on one knee or not if he had the ring in his pocket. What if she stopped him from proposing and he felt his proposal may have changed her mind? People are so stuck on the act, they don't get the intention.

[sjcaligurl]

I can already feel myself getting protective of Ashley and it's not even Sunday night yet. Her sister irks me to nooo end in the new previews. I just want to hug poor Ash without even seeing the MTP portion yet. I'm sure it was over produced to some extent or whatever, but if she (big sis) is dense enough to not see her little sister breaking down on more than one occasion over their opinion of JP she needed to wake up and smell the roses. I know this is way back when and her opinion has changed but I really hope she takes this and learns from it, no one should be judged the way JP was judged upfront.

I'm with you, Carrie. I'm actually feeling even more protective of JP. He is going to be devastated. To have that dark cloud hanging over their special day is so sad. I know they will still be ecstatic, but it has to be in the back of their minds.

Which leads me to wonder if this were not the real reason JP is worried pre-FRC, rather than his awareness of the "other guy"....

Well, we know that he sucked it up and made it through ... and because they had a REAL connection, it sounds like she let him know it was okay to propose the minute he saw her. HE would have KNOWN if she wasn't going to accept and and might have acted like Ben before he even said hi. That's the point and the difference between the two relationships.

[ironcat]

The whole conversation on that new clip is ridiculous. There is nothing JP could say to change her mind about him? She doesn't even know him? Her sister really screwed up here on national tv. And mom has barely anything to say from what we have seen. I'd be crying if I was Ashley because who wants their family to treat someone they love that way. Want to fast forward through that all scene on Monday night.

I know, I'm baffled why there's "nothing he can do" about this? Huh? :greenman: Also, I'm confused how it's possibly "not personal" and "just being an older, protective sis" when it's okay for Brad (Brad!) or Ben to propose and not JP.

I watched the clip, and while I think it showed exactly how limited and flawed Chrystie was in her thinking about this matter, it did enlighten me as to where her thinking came from. What I saw was her judging JP solely on how she saw Ashley act around him (therefore, there was nothing HE could do or change, it was all about Ashley's attitude), and she found Ash to be too serious, and not the bubbly light hearted sister she knew, and saw her be with Brad, and apparently also with Ben. What she failed to grasp is that the reason Ash's demeanor with JP was serious was because this was the man she expected to marry that she was introducing to her family; it was a serious moment, the only moment that mattered. She could afford to be light hearted with Brad and Ben, she wasn't really invested in either of them, so the opinions of her family were almost of no consequence when it got down to it. IOW, it was easy for Ash to act relaxed and herself with the two guys she had nothing to lose with. With the one guy in whose presence she acted nervous, however, it was because she had everything to lose.

Chrystie, IMO, is too judgmental and opinionated for her own good. Either that, or the producers really asked her to ramp up the drama (they must have been desperate to come up with some obstacle to prevent the last couple of episodes from being too obvious) in return for a featured spot on the ATFR.

[Guest]

Wow... there's a lot of debate going on in this thread. I usually lurk, and rarely post, but I have time to kill so I'll throw in my two cents

What happens at the FRC is a breakup. Breakups are hard. Breakups on national tv? Ridiculously hard. Lets be real with ourselves, when we've been broken up with, do we always react with the best grace and tact? Heck no! We're being dumped!

Now, lets look at Ben and Ashley. Ashley is dumping Ben. Ben thinks he's getting engaged, jumps the gun and proposes. He laid it all out on the line for this girl, and he did it on national television. Thats rough enough in itself! Granted, he probably should've thought about the other man in this strange scenario, but if it were me in this situation, the only way I could make it thru would be to not think about the other girl thats vying for my mans heart and affection.

I personally think the way Ben reacted is normal. Perfectly normal. We all process things differently, and this is how Ben initially processes. I don't think he needs to be bashed on at all. I also think that they way Ashley handled things was normal. Breakups are hard on both the dumper and dumpee. Why don't we all remember that these people are real life humans, just like you and me, and lets cut them some slack!

I don't think any posters are actually bashing Ben, I know I'm not, I feel really badly that he thought he had it in the bag and was rejected on national TV. What I think ppl are upset about is that JP had a hissy fit and some ppl posted that he was dangerous, that he had jealousy and temper issues. Now we know that Ben has a bit of a temper too and it is going to be shown on national TV as well. IMO its a what goes around comes around type of thing. Neither of the F2 are perfect, all of us lose our tempers at times.

Speaking for myself only, I don't think that "it's TB, this is the process" , etc. really mollifies me, and neither does bringing up comments other posters may have made about JP's temper.... I am allowed to be upset by her letting him go down on 1 knee just as much as others are allowed to be outraged by things in "the process" which were hurtful to Ash, Jp, or both. I don't claim it was intentional, but I do believe she should've and could've taken charge of that situation... Doesn't mean she's a bad person, I realize.

[Guest]

LoveMe!

I object to those who are saying that Ben fans are defending him while bashing JP for jealousy. There may have been ones who did that but most of the posts were about the jealousy edit and not about JP as a person. We saw it on out tvs but have yet to see Ben walking away. If the edit makes him look bad then we'll have a comparison but right now it's too early for any pot calling the kettle black comments like I've seen on this thread.

nough said

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