Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

happygolucky wrote:Stuck, you know I agree with you ... only that I'm less attached to this season, because I've decided to not follow TB show anymore (maybe other versions around the world I might watch again after reading this forum), and I actually don't care about Kaitlyn's story. I only care for Nick's, how will he get out of this mess and rise again.
I find Kaitlyn compelling, not in relationship with Nick, but for her self-serving purposes ... that doesn't mean I find her attractive or that much exciting/interesting (because we pretty much get what we see with her), but I like that she doesn't pretend to be who she is not and depending on the ending, how she will deal with the aftermath, I will be able to decide where she lands on my respect scale.

I think my disappointment stems from that fact that I did like Kaitlyn and was actually excited to see her journey.  I was hoping for that refreshing season, instead I have gotten a drama queen and needless drama.  I have a friend who I watch the show live with and chat on FB.  If not for that I would have given up a couple of weeks ago.  I didn't like SWSNBN, so when she was annoying I expected it.

Now for Kaitlyn to seem to have turned into Andi in her attitude toward Nick is the last straw for me.  I didn't need or want her to pick him, as I honestly think he is just too smart for her and she would have bored him to tears and she would have felt constricted by him, but for her to act as if Nick is a bad guy, when  she used him for support and to prop her up when she was facing having to go against Britt, enjoy him physically and use him as a support during taping when she needed a pick me up, because he pretty much did everything he could to make her happy during taping.  Even letting her insult him and accuse him of telling the other guys about their sex. To meet the awesome Vialls and still be quite intimate with him and then to turn on him is just mean.  I don't like mean girls, probably why I am not a fan of SWSNBN and her bff.  

When someone I had liked shows themselves to be someone who is so unlikeable in my opinion, I think I take it harder.  By the end of BiP, I probably won't care what the heck she thinks or is doing.  I can droll over Jared for a while, that should help relieve my frustration.

I do get why you call her compelling. She could make a mark on the world, unfortunately, she seems so self-centered and focused that I don't think she will. Even those who were most evil had an ability to think beyond themselves and this moment. You have to be able to think about tomorrow to be able to make a mark on the world or history. Kaitlyn seems barely able to think past the second she is living sometimes.

HGL  I guess I see compelling as "having a powerful and irresistible effect; requiring acute admiration, attention, or respect" (Dictionary.com) but can see how it can be seen in a different way.

I don't think K or anyone is a bad person as they are unknown entities save for their filtered selves via different mediums (TV, SM, etc). So I can only make an assessment based on those things.

I guess that is why Nick is compelling even to those who may dislike him because ratings and even the media seem to suggest that his very being requires that people pay attention to him - whether they want to or not (and the edit supports this along with the ratings).

I see that with Kaitlyn too but to a much lesser degree since she is overshadowed by Nick in her own season.

ETA: Hmmm... maybe that's why she doesn't mention Nick much in her blogs? Perhaps Kaitlyn doesn't want to be overshadowed by Nick post-show since the edit focus is on Nick and has been since the season promo. Everything seems to revolve around or be entangled with Nick, from magazine covers to the edit and even her F1 can't escape being Nick-afied . Perhaps writing about Nick she feels overshadows herself once again in her mind and like she said she is tired of talking about the Nick-thing. Perhaps it really comes down to not liking that the focus is not on her and her journey. Perhaps the same could be said about Shawn and his dislike of Nick - "the other guy" taking the attention away from him. It's like Kaitlyn and Shawn became the sideshow to the "Return of the F2/Nick show". Because one thing is certain, imo, the minute Nick came on the show this season became more about the F2 than the lead/F1.

I wonder if Kaitlyn is mad at Nick because it has become the Nick show instead of the bachelorette kaitlyn show. Now if only he could become the bachelor and let her become a distant memory it would not be too soon.

I don't think that's why Kaitlyn hates Nick, because most of the viewers still hate him, unfortunately. It would be like Sean hating Tierra for stealing the spotlight or Emily hating Kalon for stealing the spotlight.

Maybe Kaitlyn doesn't deal well with people that she's hurt? She didn't want to discuss Jared much after she let him go, because it was "too painful". Kaitlyn knows she screwed Nick and his family over in a bad way, some people find it easier to blame others than to take responsibility for their own actions, which we have clearly seen her already do with Nick and the whole sex thing on the show.

chasingpavements wrote:I don't think that's why Kaitlyn hates Nick, because most of the viewers still hate him, unfortunately. It would be like Sean hating Tierra for stealing the spotlight or Emily hating Kalon for stealing the spotlight.

Not necessarily, it depends how self-centered someone is. I think Kalon left early enough that is was still the Emily show. Nick is there until the bitter end.

I don't know if that is the issue, but I would maybe compare her to Emily, but never Sean. They are too vastly different from each other.

Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #5
Post by Lucas15 on Sat Jul 18 2015, 05:54


@MonicaJM2001 wrote:
Kaitlyn is the Kaitlyn I really liked last season when she is with Nick, spunky, normal and fun. However if the real Kaitlyn is the one that comes out when with Shawn (fickle, immature, cowering) then I will agree that my initial Kaitlyn/Nick projections of being perfect for each other were/are wrong.
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IMO it's hard to get a real sense of how someone is when all we see is minutes of footage out of hours actually shot - we see only what the editors choose to show us so our view is skewed by the edit. IMO we do feel differently about ourselves depending on who we are with and one measure of the "right fit" for us could be if we like the "self" we see when with a particular person. In terms of her relationship it's not at all important to Kaitlyn how we feel about the person she is with someone - it's how Kaitlyn feels about herself when she is with someone. That's why I thought this from Kaitlyn's Epsideo 9 Blog about her FD with Shawn interesting:

Kaitlyn wrote:
That was one of my favorite days. I definitely felt like myself with Shawn, and I really loved the idea of golfing with him for the next 40 years.
We may not be seeing enough to make a good judgement but if Kaitlyn feels herself with Shawn that's what's important to her - not how we feel.

I think this is my problem with trying to judge a relationship based on what we see on TV: it is all edited. They have enough footage to show relationships in any light they want. So Nick gets the fun and complete package edit; Shawn gets the broody one. I don't think we have a clue what the real relationships are like.

SueSt wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

MonicaJM2001 wrote:Nick's consistent demeanor post show and post snapchat fiasco doesn't show me someone in the dark about how it ended. If he really thought she chose no one and then was alerted by snapchat that she had I think there would have atleast been a noticeable downward shift or mood change in pics taken after that. If anything he seems more happy/free since Kaitlyn's spoiler like he doesn't have to keep up suspense everyday. He may play along in what he tweets but atleast doesn't have to pretend in public.

I think he knew too - I can't imagine Nick not asking or Kaitlyn not saying something about Shawn at the rejection. Nick asked Andi if this was about somebody else, when he was rejected, so I would think he would ask again this time.

My theory is still that Nick moved on romantically post-show and that is why Kaitlyn is so angry with him, but Nick doesn't seem to have any anger toward her and seems apologetic about his drama with Shawn. If they had gotten into a fight about Kaitlyn leading him on and/or Shawn being bad for her, I feel like Nick wouldn't be so supportive in his tweets.

IA, CP.    Nick has been very supportive.  And amazingly apologetic about the drama with Shawn, which is more than I can say for the other guy.
He's said he wants to be with someone that wants him.  His actions support this.

It would be nice if he has found someone since, wouldn't it?

I never really saw him as a match with Kaitlyn. Yes, they have fun, but she is such a huge free spirit, I have a hard time seeing that fit in for a lifetime with how Nick was raised.

Hmm: Nick favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ. Can't bring it over right now. I really question whether Nick will be taking the high road at ATFR. This is not the first time he has favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ. I have yet to see Shawn fav anything negative about Nick. Makes sense why Shawn unfollowed JJ too.

happydays wrote:Not sure if this has been brought up here before (sorry, haven't been around this forum for a while), but confirmation from Sharleen that Nick was not baited by producers to go on the show from her alltheprettypandas blog:

 It amazes me how quick viewers are to make judgments about people on these shows yet how steadfast they are in those hasty first impressions. That said, while I know the Nick-those who are not fans out there won't be changing their minds any time soon, I do want to make one thing very clear: Nick was not begged, paid, or coerced into coming on this season. He truly, legitimately had a huge crush on Kaitlyn, felt they could potentially have something very special, and did what he had to to pursue her.

Thanks

isittrue wrote:Hmm:  Nick favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ.  Can't bring it over right now.  I really question whether Nick will be taking the high road at ATFR. This is not the first time he has favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ. I have yet to see Shawn fav anything negative about Nick.  Makes sense why Shawn unfollowed JJ too.

I don't think there is a high road between those two.

Nick does seem to at least try to find one, but you can't take a road that doesn't exist.

dw_a_mom wrote:

isittrue wrote:Hmm:  Nick favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ.  Can't bring it over right now.  I really question whether Nick will be taking the high road at ATFR. This is not the first time he has favorited a negative tweet about Shawn by JJ. I have yet to see Shawn fav anything negative about Nick.  Makes sense why Shawn unfollowed JJ too.

I don't think there is a high road between those two.

Nick does seem to at least try to find one, but you can't take a road that doesn't exist.

No but it would be classier if they had nothing nice to say, not to say or favorite it at all. I think had it been Shawn favoriting something negative about Nick, others would be all over it jmo. Nick for the most part has been classy but now and then, he does stir the pot with JJ holding the spoon more often than not me thinks.