The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - Epi 8 July 6th - *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

AllAboutLove wrote:

mysthelma wrote:Ahh I thought we are done with the drama. What scandal now?? Could it be pre FS sex with Shawn? That Tanner talk about Shawn feeling like the big dawg until Nick arrive was pretty telling. Shawn must have let the guys know he was the chosen one. And the way Shawn has been behaving the last episode suggests the consummated thier relationship

Tanner was funny. He gave me some good chuckles here and there and I am sure everyone knew that Shawn was the big dawg - he made sure of it. I recall even JJ saying to Shawn at RC in NYC, "Shawn don't worry you're still the best looking here". 

Shawn also said he knows that none of the other guys feel the way he does. He seems to like to one up others on the show but I am sure that's just due to the show and in real life he is the most amazing thing since sliced bread. 

The pack mentality certainly seems to have been big this season, alpha Shawn and everyone else trying to get the leftovers or "spinning their wheels" as Ben H said. No way Ben didn't know he had no chance with Kailtyn - he basically admitted he knew that he didn't have a chance. And he never challenged/questioned Shawn. 

The only one that seems to challenge Shawn is Nick - but that is because Nick is not an alpha or a beta - he's just a lone wolf, imo who does his own thing. Seems like these two come head to head and an alpha will win over a lone wolf any day.

IA, AAL. Particularly when Nick has repeatedly said he's not looking to force anything just see whether he and K align.
If she's not sure, if she wants someone else, he's not going to fight for her. And GOOD for him on that accord!!

I don't think Ben was interested in Kaitlyn either.
And if he was, he figured out quickly after his own 1on1 that Kailtyn came to their room for Shawn, not him.
He was spinning his wheels and he knew it.

I just keep reminding myself that these guys go on this show for fame/travel/whatever.
Even the "good guys".
So as much as I may like one over another, even Ben is not excluded from this.
None of these guys need this show to find a girl.

I think nick is the one on the group date that tells .Kaitlyn he is in love with her ( per the right up) maybe he tells Shawn he is in love with Kaitlyn..That's why we see Shawn saying get the f@@k out of my face.

Exactly, none of them can't find a woman on their own, i think most are attracted by the notoriety of it all and most times, it's not even worth it.

SueSt wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:

mysthelma wrote:Ahh I thought we are done with the drama. What scandal now?? Could it be pre FS sex with Shawn? That Tanner talk about Shawn feeling like the big dawg until Nick arrive was pretty telling. Shawn must have let the guys know he was the chosen one. And the way Shawn has been behaving the last episode suggests the consummated thier relationship

Tanner was funny. He gave me some good chuckles here and there and I am sure everyone knew that Shawn was the big dawg - he made sure of it. I recall even JJ saying to Shawn at RC in NYC, "Shawn don't worry you're still the best looking here". 

Shawn also said he knows that none of the other guys feel the way he does. He seems to like to one up others on the show but I am sure that's just due to the show and in real life he is the most amazing thing since sliced bread. 

The pack mentality certainly seems to have been big this season, alpha Shawn and everyone else trying to get the leftovers or "spinning their wheels" as Ben H said. No way Ben didn't know he had no chance with Kailtyn - he basically admitted he knew that he didn't have a chance. And he never challenged/questioned Shawn. 

The only one that seems to challenge Shawn is Nick - but that is because Nick is not an alpha or a beta - he's just a lone wolf, imo who does his own thing. Seems like these two come head to head and an alpha will win over a lone wolf any day.

IA, AAL.  Particularly when Nick has repeatedly said he's not looking to force anything just see whether he and K align.  
If she's not sure, if she wants someone else, he's not going to fight for her.  And GOOD for him on that accord!!

I don't know...If Nick proposes that would be fighting for her IMO. In fact he has fought for her the whole season. Coming to NYC, facing the guys, not questioning Kaitlyn, silently standing by her while she waded through her emotional choices, brought his family to meet her after last season's heartbreak, showed up and proposed marriage, supported her decisions regarding honesty about her sexual choices and praised her character and strength...even until last week. That sounds like a pretty incredible guy to me. An alpha in his own right. He just doesn't flaunt it.

Hotmomma wrote:I think nick is the one on the group date that tells .Kaitlyn he is in love  with her ( per the right up) maybe he tells Shawn he is in love with Kaitlyn..That's why  we  see Shawn saying get the f@@k out of my face.

I do think that Nick will be the one to tell Kaitlyn he's in love with her. I do think that Joe gets eliminated during the group date, so I wonder if that has anything to do with Shawn or Nick? I also feel like Kaitlyn doesn't give anyone a rose on that date, which is why Shawn and Nick look so awkward on that bench when Kaitlyn is walking away.


I do think that the fight that happens with Shawn and Nick is about something else. He's wearing different clothes in that group date, that scene where he says "there's one guy I just don't trust", and the scene where Shawn tells him to get the f- out of his face. So, I think he reveals the scandalous thing about Shawn on his FSD, Kaitlyn comes back and asks Shawn about it, and that's why he yells at Nick the next morning.

OnePromise wrote:

SueSt wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:
Tanner was funny. He gave me some good chuckles here and there and I am sure everyone knew that Shawn was the big dawg - he made sure of it. I recall even JJ saying to Shawn at RC in NYC, "Shawn don't worry you're still the best looking here". 

Shawn also said he knows that none of the other guys feel the way he does. He seems to like to one up others on the show but I am sure that's just due to the show and in real life he is the most amazing thing since sliced bread. 

The pack mentality certainly seems to have been big this season, alpha Shawn and everyone else trying to get the leftovers or "spinning their wheels" as Ben H said. No way Ben didn't know he had no chance with Kailtyn - he basically admitted he knew that he didn't have a chance. And he never challenged/questioned Shawn. 

The only one that seems to challenge Shawn is Nick - but that is because Nick is not an alpha or a beta - he's just a lone wolf, imo who does his own thing. Seems like these two come head to head and an alpha will win over a lone wolf any day.

IA, AAL.  Particularly when Nick has repeatedly said he's not looking to force anything just see whether he and K align.  
If she's not sure, if she wants someone else, he's not going to fight for her.  And GOOD for him on that accord!!

I don't know...If Nick proposes that would be fighting for her IMO.  In fact he has fought for her the whole season.  Coming to NYC, facing the guys, not questioning Kaitlyn, silently standing by her while she waded through her emotional choices, brought his family to meet her after last season's heartbreak, showed up and proposed marriage, supported her decisions regarding honesty about her sexual choices and praised her character and strength...even until last week.  That sounds like a pretty incredible guy to me.  An alpha in his own right.  He just doesn't flaunt it.  

IA with what you've written, OP. Nick's put it on the line, shown up and stated he was all-in... maybe it's just semantics... 'force' to me suggests what he's doing is something K doesn't want. I think she wants it (at least at this point).

For sure I agree with you Sue.  Nick will not try to force Kaitlyn into anything.  That is not how he thinks IMO.  He wants a mutual relationship, a give and take, equal footing, "iron sharpens iron" type of relationship.

I also see that he is future thinker, a big picture thinker.  He looks at the situation with a "light at the end of the tunnel" vision.  He wanted to have a real life relationship with Kaitlyn and was willing to endure whatever he needed to in the present in order to realize that future.  

Which is interestingly opposite from both Kaitlyn and Shawn, who IMO are "in the moment" thinkers.  Kaitlyn admits this herself openly and Shawn had a really hard time putting the present moment on hold to consider the future they might have if he was just patient with Kaitlyn and the process.  

I saw that big time this week as Kaitlyn was encouraging Shawn to focus towards the future in her discussion with him.  Which is kind of like the "blind leading the blind" a bit as Kaitlyn has a hard time doing this herself.  Then cut to Nick telling Kaitlyn that he is willing to go through whatever and be there for her because he knows what he wants to be with her when it is all over.  

While I saw Nick looking at their future.  I saw Shawn and Kaitlyn getting lost in the present.

chasingpavements wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:I think nick is the one on the group date that tells .Kaitlyn he is in love  with her ( per the right up) maybe he tells Shawn he is in love with Kaitlyn..That's why  we  see Shawn saying get the f@@k out of my face.

I do think that Nick will be the one to tell Kaitlyn he's in love with her. I do think that Joe gets eliminated during the group date, so I wonder if that has anything to do with Shawn or Nick? I also feel like Kaitlyn doesn't give anyone a rose on that date, which is why Shawn and Nick look so awkward on that bench when Kaitlyn is walking away.


I do think that the fight that happens with Shawn and Nick is about something else. He's wearing different clothes in that group date, that scene where he says "there's one guy I just don't trust", and the scene where Shawn tells him to get the f- out of his face. So, I think he reveals the scandalous thing about Shawn on his FSD, Kaitlyn comes back and asks Shawn about it, and that's why he yells at Nick the next morning.

Could be..and how sad if true they guys are still together during the overnight portion...Gosh can they produce any more drama?

Hotmomma wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

Hotmomma wrote:I think nick is the one on the group date that tells .Kaitlyn he is in love  with her ( per the right up) maybe he tells Shawn he is in love with Kaitlyn..That's why  we  see Shawn saying get the f@@k out of my face.

I do think that Nick will be the one to tell Kaitlyn he's in love with her. I do think that Joe gets eliminated during the group date, so I wonder if that has anything to do with Shawn or Nick? I also feel like Kaitlyn doesn't give anyone a rose on that date, which is why Shawn and Nick look so awkward on that bench when Kaitlyn is walking away.


I do think that the fight that happens with Shawn and Nick is about something else. He's wearing different clothes in that group date, that scene where he says "there's one guy I just don't trust", and the scene where Shawn tells him to get the f- out of his face. So, I think he reveals the scandalous thing about Shawn on his FSD, Kaitlyn comes back and asks Shawn about it, and that's why he yells at Nick the next morning.

Could be..and how sad if true they guys are still together during the overnight portion...Gosh can they produce any more drama?

Yes, I forgot about the drama that would be caused by not separating the guys at this point.  Usually after HTD, the guys don't see each other except at RC.  But it looks like they are still together after Nick's overnight date.  Wow! They really wanted Shawn and Nick to go atomic on each other.  Another example of  "how low can they go?" (The producers...not the guys.)  It makes sense though.  Shawn can't very well get angry at Kaitlyn if he is going to propose in less than two weeks? He needs to get mad at Nick, not Kaitlyn for their plan to work.  They could not have separated the guys at this stage yet.  Shawn needed a scapegoat so that his anger could more easily be directed away from Kaitlyn when he did find out about the intimacy with Nick.

AllAboutLove wrote:The pack mentality certainly seems to have been big this season, alpha Shawn and everyone else trying to get the leftovers or "spinning their wheels" as Ben H said. No way Ben didn't know he had no chance with Kaitlyn - he basically admitted he knew that he didn't have a chance. And he never challenged/questioned Shawn. 

The only one that seems to challenge Shawn is Nick - but that is because Nick is not an alpha or a beta - he's just a lone wolf, imo who does his own thing. Seems like these two come head to head and an alpha will win over a lone wolf any day.

Very very good - I'm impressed. lone wolf is very descriptive and makes the point very clear - omega might be more technically correct but not as clear. You've basically explained why Nick gets under the skin of guys competing for one woman - he doesn't behave like the rest of the pack and acknowledge the alpha - he tries to be the alpha that he's not. The reaction of other guys is to not trust him, or call him a snake because he doesn't follow the instinctive behavior of how men compete. Take him out of the competition over a woman and he can be a very nice friend which is why guys who hated him on the season end up being friends with him later - it works as long as they do not compete with him for a woman.

I wish I had saved a link but a couple of years ago I read a sociological study of TB and TBette and they said that fundamentally TB was a much better concept. If you put a bunch of guys chasing one woman (as is the case of TBette) they will start out with a bunch of puffery and shortly settle down to a hierarchy of an alpha, maybe a beta (think of the beta as the alpha's wingman) and the rest omegas. They understand and respect these roles and it gets a bit boring. Women on TB compete in much more interesting ways and will continue to compete even if one clearly has the upper hand. It makes for much more interesting TV and it's a lot easier to get drama than it is with a bunch of guys.

All JMHO

lexforlife wrote:Maybe Ben didn't question Shawn because he wasn't really into the girl.  Watching the show,  I think only 2 out of the men left were interested in something long term with Kaitlyn and that is Shawn and Jared and that to me has been the most surprising thing so far. People only fight for what they want. I don't even see the competitive spirit in any of these men. It is quite fascinating,  reminds me of Ashley's season.

They are all afraid of Shawn.