Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shawn Booth - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion

Maggenzm wrote:I remember their conversation at the RC after sexgate, she made it clear to him that she was exploring relationships and to let her figure this thing out on her own.

I had a different take on her "message" to Shawn and I think Shawn may have taken it more the way I saw it based on what he did afterwards.

In Dublin on one of the two times Shawn went to Kaitlyn's room she told him that they were stuck in this process and there was only one way out. I took her to mean that she and Shawn both were under a contract to do this series and they didn't have an option to just walk away from it - they had to see it through to the end if they wanted to be together.

I took what Kaitlyn said at the RC not to mean she was going to explore other relationships and "to H*** with you if you don't like it" - I took it to mean "I will get us through this and do what I have to do to get us both out and you just have to trust me that I want this as much as you do".

After that conversation Shawn seems to have set aside his reservations that were causing him to hold back (as he expressed to her in the "your actions don't match your words" conversation) and instead openly expressed to Kaitlyn that he wasn't just falling in love with her, he was in love with her, so IMO Shawn did start trusting Kaitlyn to get both of them through to the end. Perhaps the fact that she had been honest with him about Nick was one of those things that started to build that trust. Since IMO Kaitlyn did get them both through it and picked him at the end - just as soon as she could do that - perhaps he was right in trusting her.

Interesting POV, Lucas.
I absolutely took K to mean I am going to do what I need to do for my journey.
I feel K is as honest as she needs to be at the time. When the time comes to be more honest, she'll cross that bridge.

Lucas, did she not tell him he could leave in that convo? That would be the monkey wrench in your interpretation. But, I maybe wrong. S and K annoy me so much I only half listen to them. I am usually typing to my friend how annoying he or she is to me.

Kashathediva wrote:I absolutely took K to mean I am going to do what I need to do for my journey.

That's not far different from my POV if you change the word "my" to "our".

If she hadn't asked Shawn to trust her then I would buy that she was thinking "this is my journey". But that "trust me" puts a different spin on it in my mind - there's almost an implicit afterthought - "trust me - I won't let you down" or "trust me - I'll do the right thing". At this point there really was nothing Shawn could do but stick it out and let Kaitlyn do what she had to do to get to the end.

At the end of the day what matters is less how we interpret what she said - it's how Shawn interpreted it - and he seems to have trusted her.
JMHO

I don't recall Kaitlyn ever telling Shawn to leave if he had a problem with her exploring other options. If she did say that she was just challenging him because we all know she would've been a wreck had he walked. And yeah, this couple bugs. I just don't find them balanced or healthy at all. Kaitlyn questions Shawn about the eskimo bros. comment and his reply? "See, what had happened was." Total red flag but Kaitlyn doesn't even question him on it. She is so afraid to piss this guy off and he is horrible with confrontations and just deflects everything. He turned that entire convo into "Nick's is beneath me and if you choose him you aren't the one for me." 

Lucas15 wrote:

Maggenzm wrote:I remember their conversation at the RC after sexgate, she made it clear to him that she was exploring relationships and to let her figure this thing out on her own.

I had a different take on her "message" to Shawn and I think Shawn may have taken it more the way I saw it based on what he did afterwards.

In Dublin on one of the two times Shawn went to Kaitlyn's room she told him that they were stuck in this process and there was only one way out. I took her to mean that she and Shawn both were under a contract to do this series and they didn't have an option to just walk away from it - they had to see it through to the end if they wanted to be together.

I took what Kaitlyn said at the RC not to mean she was going to explore other relationships and "to H*** with you if you don't like it" - I took it to mean "I will get us through this and do what I have to do to get us both out and you just have to trust me that I want this as much as you do".

After that conversation Shawn seems to have set aside his reservations that were causing him to hold back (as he expressed to her in the "your actions don't match your words" conversation) and instead openly expressed to Kaitlyn that he wasn't just falling in love with her, he was in love with her, so IMO Shawn did start trusting Kaitlyn to get both of them through to the end. Perhaps the fact that she had been honest with him about Nick was one of those things that started to build that trust. Since IMO Kaitlyn did get them both through it and picked him at the end - just as soon as she could do that - perhaps he was right in trusting her.

I agree, Lucas15.
There was a bit of a sea change in Shawn from that point forward. He still got his boxers in a twist about Nick's possible lack of sincerity and the whole eskimo bros tattle, but his dynamic with Kaitlyn seemed to change. He seemed more calm with her. Well, until she brought up Nick again at their FD dinner, anyway.

I recall Kaitlyn telling CH that her greatest concern with Shawn was his jealousy/possessiveness and that she hoped it was only due to the show and not how he was in real life. So her doubts were not about marrying him but about him being 100% loyal to her.

So I think she was calling Shawn out on his bluff of him wanting to leave and saying, well, even if I am in love with you, if you want to leave then there's the door.

I do think however, that Nick was Kaitlyn's "explore other options" guy and she said she never had dated someone like him before which was probably more intriguing. She did say her doubts with Nick were about marrying him because he wasn't her type.

Imo, Kaitlyn had doubts about both guys: one was her type (Shawn) and one wasn't (Nick). But I think her doubts with Shawn were temporary and based on his behavior on the show while her doubts with Nick were longterm and based on him not being her type. When it came to FRC and making a choice I think Kaitlyn was more sure of her type/Shawn (what is longterm) which helped her choose Shawn.

Jmo

BlackHalo wrote:I don't recall Kaitlyn ever telling Shawn to leave if he had a problem with her exploring other options. If she did say that she was just challenging him because we all know she would've been a wreck had he walked. And yeah, this couple bugs. I just don't find them balanced or healthy at all. Kaitlyn questions Shawn about the eskimo bros. comment and his reply? "See, what had happened was." Total red flag but Kaitlyn doesn't even question him on it. She is so afraid to piss this guy off and he is horrible with confrontations and just deflects everything. He turned that entire convo into "Nick's is beneath me and if you choose him you aren't the one for me." 

I actually think they did discuss that in private with no cameras rolling and that's why she hushed him. She spared him the explanation to the public.

Lucas15 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I absolutely took K to mean I am going to do what I need to do for my journey.

That's not far different from my POV if you change the word "my" to "our".

If she hadn't asked Shawn to trust her then I would buy that she was thinking "this is my journey". But that "trust me" puts a different spin on it in my mind - there's almost an implicit afterthought - "trust me - I won't let you down" or "trust me - I'll do the right thing". At this point there really was nothing Shawn could do but stick it out and let Kaitlyn do what she had to do to get to the end.

At the end of the day what matters is less how we interpret what she said - it's how Shawn interpreted it - and he seems to have trusted her.
JMHO

And therein lies the problem those two little words interchanged make a whole new meaning. I did not see it as our.
A woman would say trust "us" if she meant "us". She said trust me.

BlackHalo wrote:I don't recall Kaitlyn ever telling Shawn to leave if he had a problem with her exploring other options. If she did say that she was just challenging him because we all know she would've been a wreck had he walked. And yeah, this couple bugs. I just don't find them balanced or healthy at all. Kaitlyn questions Shawn about the eskimo bros. comment and his reply? "See, what had happened was." Total red flag but Kaitlyn doesn't even question him on it. She is so afraid to piss this guy off and he is horrible with confrontations and just deflects everything. He turned that entire convo into "Nick's is beneath me and if you choose him you aren't the one for me." 

Yeah, their relationship has SO many red flags i can't even count them anymore. RS said this and I 100% agree: if you are making excuses for your man this early in the relationship, it is not a good sign of what's to come. It would be fine if she did that once with the Eskimo brothers thing, but she continues to do it every single week in her blogs and Periscopes and snap-chat recaps.

And, yeah, for someone so adamant that Nick is manipulative, Shawn should really take a look in the mirror. He threatens to leave, knowing that he likes her too much to actually do it, just so that she's always trying to chase him and make sure he stays. He makes it seem like picking Nick is a sign that there's something wrong with her, not him. When he's questioned about a specific thing he's said, he throws vague attacks on Nick to draw the attention off the real issue. He played the game well, I'll give him that.

Kashathediva wrote:And therein lies the problem those two little words interchanged make a whole new meaning. I did not see it as our.
A woman would say trust "us" if she meant "us". She said trust me.

IMO trust "us" wouldn't have made sense. There's an old saying about give and take - "If you lead, I will follow; if you follow, I will lead." This was Kaitlyn's time to lead because she was the lead; she was the one who had the "right" to pick and she was the one who could get through to the end - all Shawn could do in that situation was follow and trust that Kaitlyn would do the right thing..

Uh no. We will have to agree to disagree.
Trust "us" means trust what we have. Trust me means trust me.
I would never trust anyone else unless they were proven to be trusted. I can't imagine in a couple short weeks this issue had been tested.
I am not a believer in blind trust. I have been burnt and burnt myself with trust issues. I will admit these are my issues. The phrase fool me once blah blah blah fool me twice blah blah blah is a personal mantra.
Trust is a real challenge.