Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

Max64 wrote:

IrishGal wrote:Nick's not F1. And I thank goodness for it.  Kaitlin is my fave bette so far and it would break my heart if she hitched herself to that creepy man.  He makes my skin crawl. He's unattractive, he reminds me of Eddie Haskell in the original Leave it to Beaver TV show from the 60s...most of you won't recall that but Eddie was a fake smarmy piece of grossness and that's how I view Nick. He seduced Kait on the internet so that he could make his big comeback and redeem himself...well it didn't work because he is doing the exact same thing. A snake is a snake is a snake. Sorry Nick Chicks but that's just how I feel.

Actually if you go back and look at their SM history that was posted on this board, it was Kaitlyn that was pursuing Nick.

Kaitlyn is a grown woman who makes her own decisions. IF she was seduced by Nick, she allowed her to be seduced. It takes two to tango.
When it was first announced there would be two bachelorettes, Nick said in a video that selfishly, he wanted Britt to be the lead, so I doubt it's always his plan for the big comeback when he first contacted K through sm.

Max64 wrote:

BowenAnderson wrote:

Max64 wrote:

Actually if you go back and look at their SM history that was posted on this board, it was Kaitlyn that was pursuing Nick.

Can you tell us what pages these are on?

https://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2948p144-the-bachelorette-11-kaitlyn-bristowe-clues-sleuthing-spoilers-no-discussion

Sorry for the double post, but from above thread, here's what emusha posted:
"Feb. 3 >K faves N tweet without #thebachelor hashtag i.e. additional confirmation she followed him before Feb. 3 < Been listening to @taylorswift13 1989 all night in preparation for dinner with @theyearofelan tomorrow night

Feb. 3 - 9 >N's on LA vacation according to instagram posts< - Meets up with Elan on the 4th  (Speculation: elan might have discussed BIP and or tthe girls on CS' season including Kaitlyn )

Feb 2 >K retweets a N tweet< - On another note...Missing Ashley S. #TheBachelor (Note: Kaitlyn's last tweet is a retweet pic of her and Ashley S.)
Feb. 2 >K faves N tweet< - I like how Kaitlyn carries herself #TheBachelor
Jan 28 >according to twitter timeline N follows K back<
Jan 26 >according to twitter timeline K follows N<
Jan. 5 >K faves N tweet< - Just remember everyone...In real life...there is no music in that room and the silence is brutal. #TheBachelor

via notarose Note: Nick has never retweeted a K. tweet + To my knowledge, he has never commented on any of her pics.

also via notarose IMO, given the above, it is possible that Kaitlyn was the initiator of "interest". > agree! My inking is actually that K wanted to have N make the effort if he was really into her esp if she was showing interest to begin the whole flirtation."

The fact is Kaitlyn followed Nick first.

lleyki wrote:

.most of you won't recall that but Eddie was a fake smarmy piece of grossness and that's how I view Nick. He seduced Kait on the internet so that he could make his big comeback and redeem himself...

I always liked Nick during Andi's season and still to this day will fervently stand by that even with the whole ATFR drama. And I still like Nick now. That said, I don't feel bad for the crazy hate he's getting because I thought he was stupid and crazy to put himself back into that mess and whatever he got, well there you go. In my opinion, if anyone is crazy enough to do this show even once, that's bad enough, but after that, run and run far away from these people and that franchise.

That said, comments like the above sort of amuse me. Poor, poor naive Kaitlyn being used by that gross, evil, mastermind svengali Nick. Because what's free will right? Certainly Katilyn could not have entertained Nick because she wanted to, kept him on the show because she wanted to and had sex with him (again if you believe the spoilers) twice in the span of a few weeks because she wanted to. No, it's all that evil creepy genius' manipulation.

I'm still behind all the posts, so I start with the first and foremost - exactly the same point of view - I couldn't agree more. TY

Thanks to AllAboutLove, Emusha, Ileyki, Happydays, ... for expressing some carefully observational thoughts I totally agree with (especially about Nick's needs & wants & relationships) ... that said, I'm not following this season attentively because I'm not interested in Kaitlyn's story.
Yes, I wanted for her to get the gig (since I saw that "desire" in her during CS' season and I liked the girl), I like that she is the Bette, because I appreciate what she brings to the table (discussion, simplicity, real/honesty), I may not consider all said and done a good choice, but I support her as a woman in her search for the best match (which I do believe is Shawn), so I see no wrong in her actions. It's not my call.
I only care for Nick and his journey ... and by that I mean post-show. That's why I've watched few minutes of the show when he appears, to understand better where he's been and where he's now and hopefully I'll be able to see in the near future where all these winding roads lead to.

Thank you for that synopsis. :Nod:

Thank you for giving supporting evidence that K initiated with Nick.
Just like with sex-gate.

Funny thing is now Kailtyn is backpeddling and implying she slept with Nick because it's his very physical/flirty nature that made her be flirty/physical.

Where was Nick on night one then when she kissed Dr C and Shawn?
He must have been responsible for that too.
As well as the numerous other guys she made out with pre-Nick coming on the show.

Good luck blaming Nick (or Guinness alcohol) for any relationship issues.
Any relationship that tries to put the onus on someone else makes that someone else a part of their present day relationship.
And I saw how that worked out last year.

Good luck to the happy couple.
Nick is better off, imo.

Ah, the "devil made me do it" defense or the Scarlet O'hare defense "I just couldn't help myself".    Own it, Kaitlin. It is what it is. 

There is an expression I love: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
It's time to say goodnight to this franchise Nick. It does not appear reality tv is your best venue.

Ok, just a question - since I'm not sure what I should read first and where to turn - where is Kaitlyn "back-peddling" ... I'm just curious to see that "outcome" (which is simply - predictable).

I liked Sharleen's review. There was a lot of editing in some most "controversial" minutes in the last episode, including Ian's self-talk/voice-overs and Nick's recounting scenes (some guys appear/disappear/appear again ... looks that could be placed anytime) ... but most people watch the show when it airs and so the impact of the images is distorted and I don't blame the edit, neither do I think that others' perception is wrong, but like Shar wrote best:

Sharleen Joynt wrote:As a fellow human being, have you ever lived in the moment and done something you wanted to do, without properly assessing the consequences? Would guilt be punishment enough, or do you think you might have benefited from the judgement of strangers? At what point does opining become cruelty? At what point, considering the self-reflection I hope some of these questions inspire, does it become hypocrisy?

^This Kasha! As much as I like Nick, I want him to stay far far away from reality tv.
(OTOH, if he goes on the Amazing Race....)

If only Nick doesn't go to ATFR. Unlikely he won't and wishful thinking.

Imo, Nick may need to reevaluate his "type".
He may want a sassy, spicy what-have-you girl but he may need a someone who is less spice.

There are a lot of beautiful(inside and out) and spicy(inside and out) single women out there who also are mature and don't fly by the seat of their pants to the point that they leave their pants behind with their azz hanging out in the breeze. 
Perhaps he needs some zen time.

^^ AAL - agree! ... I see Nick similar to Art ... so I hope he gets the Woman, because I believe he needs and would benefit from (as a challenge and speaking same language kind) someone similar to Matilda.

emusha wrote:I disagree that compartmentalization is just a producer schtick.... the proof for me in that is how torn up Ash was at Bentley leaving but then that let her see that JP really was the "rock" she needed and wanted (Bentley leaving removed the infatuation cloud that blocked her from seeing how perfect JP was for her), I also see Des as prime example cos she really wanted Brooks (again infatuation imho) but what she needed was Chris. If either of these ladies had shut themselves off once their "infatuation high" reached new levels with bentley/brooks...they would not have had a chance to build the kind of relationships they did with their final pick
both women were heart broken, literally (any of those crying scenes are proof of that) -- both said something to the effect of "I don't know if this will work for me now that X is gone"

We may just have to agree to disagree because I don't find either example compelling.

I never saw Ashley's "infatuation" with Bentley as anything more than a bit of reasonably decent acting. She was warned about him, she had a totally contemptuous sneer on her face after meeting him, and she never really had to deal with him long because he left and everything after that was presented in an ITM (which could be re-filmed as many times as it took to get it believable) or discussions with CH where both of them looked like they were about to break up laughing - and which could also be re-filmed as many times as it took. She also admitted to acting and felt she wasn't a very good bachelorette because she wasn't very good at acting. She may have been good enough for some to believe the Bentley subterfuge - but I never did. I did however find it amusing. Preposterous but amusing.

And Des never did compartmentalize and the show (through CH) criticized her for NOT keeping an open mind and exploring other options along the way - just in case who she wanted turned out to not be what she thought - which is exactly what happened for her. Des got very lucky that Chris had the patience to stay and the perseverance to help her ground her life, but IMO she certainly never explored alternatives or compartmentalized until she was forced to. She was still crying over Brooks to almost the very end.