Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

AllAboutLove wrote:^ Max it is the mystery of mysteries. I guess once the final episode airs we will see whether Nick was narrating or misleading. Until then, confusion abounds when I try to figure out why TPTB would allow Nick of all people, Mr Airplane gate himself, to have active SM accounts while filming.

:con1: :anyone?:

AllAboutLove wrote:^ Max it is the mystery of mysteries. I guess once the final episode airs we will see whether Nick was narrating or misleading. Until then, confusion abounds when I try to figure out why TPTB would allow Nick of all people, Mr Airplane gate himself, to have active SM accounts while filming.

IMO the resolution to that mystery is that an active SM account doesn't mean an uncontrolled or uncensored one. The show has admitted they have embraced SM in this day and age which could mean they now allow active SM but edit / approve everything that gets posted - just as they have done for a long time with the blogs.

Lucas - that it was under TPTB surveillance is pretty much clear to all... the question remains Why?
Since his tweets can be taken pretty much as a narration of how things progressed or they are completely opposite of how they appear?

chasingpavements wrote:

beader wrote:

charriotoffire wrote:On the surface Nick and Kaitlyn would appear to have many things in common.  There's something to consider though,  when he said to Andi, that he values sexual relations and to him it always means something and what they did was "fiancee type of things"  that tells me that he is not okay with being sexually promiscuous or at least a woman being casual about sex.  He is brought up in a conservative mormon household afterall.

(snipped)

Regarding what I bolded above, I'm pretty sure Nick and his family are Catholic, not Mormon.  That, of course, doesn't change the point you are making.

I feel like it kind of does, TBH. Not that being brought up in a conservative mormon household means you are conservative about sex as an adult (ahem, Jef Holm). That said, I've never seen anything about Nick that suggests that he's against women having casual sex. Would he have even pursued Andi if he was, considering she (likely) slept with JP, Josh, and Nick within a few months? Or (likely) hooked up with Julie Berry, without a relationship? Judging from the fact that he proudly went to his friend's lesbian wedding, I bet that he's actually a lot more progressive in his views that people think.

I think plenty of people raised in a Catholic family aren't conservative about sex. I do not think he thinks all sex has to mean something, but he thought the FS sex meant he was going to be F1 and she didn't do anything to make him think he wouldn't be. I think Nick has probably gotten around plenty.

Dr C is now following Nick on IG. So that means the final guys, except Shawn are all following Nick. Cecilia posted that this may have to do with RS spoiler that Nick proposed and Kaitlyn rejected him.

Nick wrote in his article for Sean's blog that he wasn't conservative about sex.  He just thinks it's important for people to be on the same page when it comes to sex in the context of a relationship. So I don't think he disapproves of sexual promiscuity or one night stands or anything like that -- so long as both people are in for the "just fun" as opposed to one person being in it for "just fun" and the other in it for "I want to date you."

happygolucky wrote:... the question remains Why?
Since his tweets can be taken pretty much as a narration of how things progressed or they are completely opposite of how they appear?

IMO they want exactly that kind of ambiguity because they want us (as well as other millions of viewers) to tune in and watch to see what really happens. It's like with spoilers - they know they are out there, who puts them out there, and what they say. Yet when the spoilers are wrong, some people believe them, and when they are right, some people don't believe them. TPTB has us just where they want us - unsure and curious enough to watch the show to find out.

BKay wrote:I do think 'all out of bubble gum' meant he was free of tptb. But we know he seems very happy in every photo since he got back, so I can't imagine that he left the bubble on a negative note this time. Does that mean he got the girl, or doesn't care that he didn't get the girl? Can't wait to see it unfold.

It could even mean there was no one else to provide any type of competition for Shawn, so TPTB brought him in to challenge the plot line only to let him go second place and he realized it all along. He did his job, he's happy with it, and now he's outta here.

Alanna wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:^ IA that it is the lead's journey and F2 is just a causality. It is always the case. The only part that makes little sense is that Kaitlyn was calling the shots this season according to RS and it seems that this is definitely the case.

She has let guys go pre-FRC so not sure why she wouldn't do that for FRC unless she had no choice/confused.

It makes little sense for someone like Kaitlyn who doesn't want to waste anyone's time and is being real and authentic to let Nick pick out a ring and get down on one knee and propose to her if she knew before then she would say no.

So, imo, she either was confused even the last minute or her calling the shots ended somewhere along the line.

I don't know, Kait needed to ask permission to walk across the room, how many shots is she really calling? How many shots do any of these people call? They're either manipulated into it or just forced probably imo.

If RS is correct and it goes down as he suggests, I feel like somewhere along her journey Kaitlyn lost her way.  Because ALL, you are right that it seems almost impossible that Kaitlyn would do that with Nick.  It seems counter to her character and her very clearly stated honesty policy.  

And Alanna, you are right the leads and contestants are manipulated or forced to do many things, but Kaitlyn still has a choice. She can't truly be forced into anything. She can refuse and stand up for herself and her values.  If they deceived her into turning Nick down, I would hope that the truth would be revealed to Nick and Kaitlyn at some point because compelling TV just isn't worth that.  And shame on the producers.  (But we already knew that....)

It could just come down to a decision for Kaitlyn:
1.) Choose herself and go along with the plan to take Nick to the F2, propose and turn him away basically humiliating him on national TV for the second time.  (She did say she was going to choose the selfish option because it was her journey to find love when he kept Nick so what is going to change?)
2.) Choose her principles of honesty and reveal to Nick prior to the proposal that she just wasn't seeing a forever with him, spare him the embarrassment of a denied proposal and let him leave with some dignity intact.  (I mean, that is not too much to ask...Andi isn't looking so bad now.)

If RS is correct, I believe that she chose the wrong option.  Who knows why? It may never be revealed.  I still hold onto the idea that RS might be wrong because I would like to believe that Kaitlyn is the person who would chose #2, be self-less and put the other person above herself.  I will be disappointed if she choses herself and option 1.  

IMO, selfishness is not a refreshing ending. Exhibiting true love by putting another above yourself...that is refreshing. And something we rarely see on TV, especially this show. Ironic as it is a show all above "love".

Does anyone remember the Instagram Nick posted mentioning a woman's hips? I would love to read that again now that we have the spoiler about his proposal being turned down. It sounded like just pretty words at the time which were about Kaitlyn but I'm thinking the words could have been part of his proposal to her.

Luvstruck wrote:Does anyone remember the Instagram Nick posted mentioning a woman's hips? I would love to read that again now that we have the spoiler about his proposal being turned down. It sounded like just pretty words at the time which were about Kaitlyn but I'm thinking the words could have been part of his proposal to her.

I don't know how to bring the photo over but here's the link

https://instagram.com/p/3pTw-Xsw0C/?taken-by=nick_viall28

Max64 wrote:

Luvstruck wrote:Does anyone remember the Instagram Nick posted mentioning a woman's hips? I would love to read that again now that we have the spoiler about his proposal being turned down. It sounded like just pretty words at the time which were about Kaitlyn but I'm thinking the words could have been part of his proposal to her.

I don't know how to bring the photo over but here's the link

https://instagram.com/p/3pTw-Xsw0C/?taken-by=nick_viall28

This quote was posted 1-2 weeks back by one of the people that Nick follows and he favorited it. I think that he hung onto it and posted it when the time was right...just before his TV appearance. The IG post even says it a repost. His timing is strategic. But IMO that doesn't mean he is not sincere about the words. I would do something like that so that viewers would know I intended the words to speak about Kaitlyn.