Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

I don't feel comfortable not having a firm position, that's why I've chosen the ending I'm expecting:
- Kaitlyn chose a guy and she is not single - I believe it is a foiler season
- From SM of all parties involved I'm gonna pick the least vocal ... so F1 ... Shawn it is
- From that conclusion, I presume Kaitlyn in her media statements and SM comments continues to give support and respect to Nick, clearly showing no signs of a bitter ending, neither of some "sleazy/creepy stalking" as some may hope, so the whole SM frenzy of "unfollowing" and "untagging" is maybe just for the "rules she never respects" and for stopping people from speculating further. I believe there was friendship, flirtatious, to the lengths that left both wondering ... and whatever the road ahead was about (TPTB deal)... it was necessary for getting those answers. Kait favorited this tweet:

@JaclynSwartz Jun 9 ‏ wrote:Gotta respect a guy who took a beatdown last season who comes back to do it all over for a girl he cares about. #teamnick #Bachelorette

This night Nick retweeted it too.
- for all I know ... the friendship is still there.
- for all I know ... Nick's style evolved (not sure if upgraded, but definitely changed).
- for all I care ... Nick is happy, serene ... and he doesn't write about clouds or missing sunshine anymore, neither does he mention almond butter or any other nut.
- all Nick's SM activity though puts all the above comments in question (again) so back and forth - I have no clue what is real and certain. We are accustomed of Nick's tricks ... but also of his power of persuasion (that sometimes he points at himself) ... so for the sake of an argument IMO he is trying to find positivity in this round 2, so when the clock strikes ATFR he will be at his best behavior.
- Who likes surprises?

People mag posted about each of the Bette guys and what the guys' social media says about them. This is what they posted about Nick.

NICK VIALL IS A COMPLETE HAM
This we knew.

http://www.people.com/people/gallery/0,,20929426,00.html#30346429

Kaitlyn calls the ending refreshing. I don't know about her or anyone else, but I don't find it refreshing to let a guy, who was/is my rock before/during the bachelorette and a good friend, propose and reject him. I would feel really bad to have led him on. It is bad enough to have to let someone propose, but to do that to a friend?! I know she shouldn't treat Nick different, but it is apparent, to me at least, that they developed a strong friendship prior to the bachelorette. So, maybe she had to let him propose, but then why call it refreshing?!

^ IA traveler. Not very refreshing if Nick proposes and K says no and dumps him.


But, if that is what happened I guess honesty is refreshing even when it is brutal and you are down on your knees.  


As I wrote that last sentence I just visualized it and realized that if the spoiler is correct, Nick is going to be on his knees proposing! And Kaitlyn says no?

traveler90 wrote:Kaitlyn calls the ending refreshing. I don't know about her or anyone else, but I don't find it refreshing to let a guy, who was/is my rock before/during the bachelorette and a good friend, propose and reject him. I would feel really bad to have led him on. It is bad enough to have to let someone propose, but to do that to a friend?! I know she shouldn't treat Nick different, but it is apparent, to me at least, that they developed a strong friendship prior to the bachelorette. So, maybe she had to let him propose, but then why call it refreshing?!

The leads are taught on this show that only they matter, it's about their process, their journey, their everything, absolutely everyone else, f1 and f2 included, are just accessories to their adventure. So if the ending FOR Kait is something she considers "refreshing"- choosing to date her f1 instead of engaged, proposing to the man herself, whatever- then I absolutely see how it would be "refreshing" TO Kait, even if it means she had to get through a few bodies, including her friend Nick, to get there. Of course, jmo.

^ IA that it is the lead's journey and F2 is just a casualty. It is always the case. The only part that makes little sense is that Kaitlyn was calling the shots this season according to RS and it seems that this is definitely the case.

She has let guys go pre-FRC so not sure why she wouldn't do that for FRC unless she had no choice/confused.

It makes little sense for someone like Kaitlyn who doesn't want to waste anyone's time and is being real and authentic to let Nick pick out a ring and get down on one knee and propose to her if she knew before then she would say no.

So, imo, she either was confused even the last minute or her calling the shots ended somewhere along the line.

AllAboutLove wrote:^ IA that it is the lead's journey and F2 is just a causality. It is always the case. The only part that makes little sense is that Kaitlyn was calling the shots this season according to RS and it seems that this is definitely the case.

She has let guys go pre-FRC so not sure why she wouldn't do that for FRC unless she had no choice/confused.

It makes little sense for someone like Kaitlyn who doesn't want to waste anyone's time and is being real and authentic to let Nick pick out a ring and get down on one knee and propose to her if she knew before then she would say no.

So, imo, she either was confused even the last minute or her calling the shots ended somewhere along the line.

I don't know, Kait needed to ask permission to walk across the room, how many shots is she really calling? How many shots do any of these people call? They're either manipulated into it or just forced probably imo.

AllAboutLove wrote:Wonder if this is why Nick was all out of bubble gum May 4th.

My take on Nick's "abbreviated" bubble gum reference is that he was alluding to the movie line "I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick a**, and I'm all out of bubble gum" meaning I'm just going to kick a**. And IMO this refers to how Nick planned to compete for Kaitlyn on the show once he got on - meaning he will leave no stone unturned and compete hard for her.

Did I miss a new spoiler? Why are we thinking now that Nick proposes but is F2? The last I heard she rejected both but only Nick had a FRC? (Let Shawn go early).

Thanks in advance

OR: per RS yesterday he stated that Nick arrives at FRC first, implying that Shawn arrives second. He said he didn't know whether Shawn proposes or not. That's what the smug one says though. So take it all with a grain of salt. It's not over till it's over. He has details on Nick but not on Shawn. Who knows why.

Lucas: definitely agree. The movie line was discussed in the prior Nick thread (what number thread are we on now with Nick ). Nick was definitely there to kick ***. So if he got down on one knee and proposed and it didn't work out per RS then he still went and gave it his all. :Nod:

AllAboutLove wrote:^ IA that it is the lead's journey and F2 is just a casualty. It is always the case. The only part that makes little sense is that Kaitlyn was calling the shots this season according to RS and it seems that this is definitely the case.

She has let guys go pre-FRC so not sure why she wouldn't do that for FRC unless she had no choice/confused.

It makes little sense for someone like Kaitlyn who doesn't want to waste anyone's time and is being real and authentic to let Nick pick out a ring and get down on one knee and propose to her if she knew before then she would say no.

So, imo, she either was confused even the last minute or her calling the shots ended somewhere along the line.

This is what confuses me as well. She made the comment to Kupah about not letting have to go through a RC (and I think she said it to Clint as well?) so I have a difficult time believing she'd do this especially to Nick, someone she's had a real friendship with.

I've been thinking about what CH has said about SM, that it's tough to keep things secret, so instead of fighting it, they're using it and that brings me to Nicks tweets at the end of filming. They really fit the narrative with RS spoilers. "some days it just feels like nothing goes right? "Can't sleep, won't sleep" well we know he's in the f2, and "Out of bubble gum, bubblebummer" He wasn't chosen and it's a bummer he's out of the bubble. Granted it could be interpreted either way, but why would Nick be allowed to tweet ANYTHING, unless it was used to their advantage? People know Nick from last season so they knew we would find out he was on the show, no one really knows the other guys yet so no point in having them on SM but TP knew we'd be tracking Nick, so why let him tweet?

^ Max it is the mystery of mysteries. I guess once the final episode airs we will see whether Nick was narrating or misleading. Until then, confusion abounds when I try to figure out why TPTB would allow Nick of all people, Mr Airplane gate himself, to have active SM accounts while filming.