Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #4

beader wrote:

charriotoffire wrote:On the surface Nick and Kaitlyn would appear to have many things in common.  There's something to consider though,  when he said to Andi, that he values sexual relations and to him it always means something and what they did was "fiancee type of things"  that tells me that he is not okay with being sexually promiscuous or at least a woman being casual about sex.  He is brought up in a conservative mormon household afterall.

(snipped)

Regarding what I bolded above, I'm pretty sure Nick and his family are Catholic, not Mormon.  That, of course, doesn't change the point you are making.

I feel like it kind of does, TBH. Not that being brought up in a conservative mormon household means you are conservative about sex as an adult (ahem, Jef Holm). That said, I've never seen anything about Nick that suggests that he's against women having casual sex. Would he have even pursued Andi if he was, considering she (likely) slept with JP, Josh, and Nick within a few months? Or (likely) hooked up with Julie Berry, without a relationship? Judging from the fact that he proudly went to his friend's lesbian wedding, I bet that he's actually a lot more progressive in his views that people think.

KB_Mom wrote:CH is a well paid puppet who does what he is told to stir up interest and ratings.  I rarely give any weight to what he says as a clue to ending because that's not the goal of his blogs\interviews.  In this case- the character assassination of Nick- I am tempted to give his comments some weight but as pointing in the opposite direction. He's in overdrive painting Nick as the villain, stirring up interest, hinting that we're going to see Nick implode and another ATFR  debacle.    Makes me think it is possible that he's laying the groundwork for a shocker- we'll be led to believe Nick is a trouble making villain who K won't choose, will create all kinds of controversy at ATFR, then boom, the shocker, K does choose Nick as F1 and Nick appears at ATFR as happy F1.Hope what I am trying to say makes sense  

yup! i can't take CH at face value after last season where he was pretty complimentary towards Nick while throwing shade at Josh. then after season blogged how perfect J/A are together....

charriotoffire wrote:Lucas,    I do not usually consider Chris Harrison's opinion when it comes to the cast etc,  but sometimes he says something that tells you ..pay attention to this..    One example is when he said,  Ian is someone to watch out for.   I do not know who Ian was until he said that but I remembered the name and true enough he's the one who called Kaitlyn out about just wanting to make out with a bunch of dudes.   Another thing that he said that was remarkable to me was " Kaitlyn is her worst enemy".  I still do not know what it means but maybe I will know later.

I pay attention to CH just to look for these little things that say "pay attention". Your example is a good one - here's one I remember very well. On Ashley's season CH blogged  just before the FD that "a surprise departure changes the order of the final 3". If you remember - Dino left after dinner and did not go on the FD. After the show aired I learned from reliable sources that Ashley had talked to Dino about being F2 and Dino had agreed to it so she was going to let Ben go at F3. But the show got wind of her plan and made Dino leave at F3 - forcing Ashley to take Ben to F2. CH was right on the money with what he said and while his comment had no effect on F1 it did affect F2 and F3.

I don't know exactly what CH meant when he said that "Kaitlyn is her own worst enemy" but that's one of those things that I think is a clue about what will unfold. Whatever happens - if not necessarily what Kaitlyn wanted to happen - may be the result of things that Kaitlyn did or decided.

CH is not just paid trained monkey,  he is heavily involved with all the aspects of the show. Isn't he one of the producers?  Sometimes he gives us a glimpse of what they really think about a particular contestant and what the majority of the viewers will think about these characters. He can't paint a character a complete opposite picture of what the audience will see as the show progress cause he needs to have the viewers 'trust' as he is the face of the franchise.  IMHO.

And IMHO this is right on the money. He is not a puppet - he's much more of a puppet master; I don't think he's a producer but IMO he often plays a similar role. He spends a lot of time in the control room, sees the story boards, knows all the scripts and plots, sees all the daily raw footage, and sometimes directly interfaces with the cast to do part of the manipulation. If the producers know something, CH has access to it. And he sometimes will get directly involved in talks with the lead or with a cast member. And as the public face of TPTB he does play a role in influencing how viewers see the story.

AllAboutLove wrote:So let me get this straight:

Post-show:
... Kaitlyn says that Nick got a bad rap last season.
... That she believes he was on the show only for her and for the right reasons.
... That she had to be selfish and follow her heart and take a risk and explore what could be with Nick no matter the backlash or how unfair it is to the guys because it is about her forever and her happiness.

And so, with K saying all this post-show, per RS she let Nick propose to her and told him no?

Wow! Can someone please explain to me how that makes any sense for K to let Nick propose to her if she didn't want him? She lets guys go pre-RC all season long but not Nick? Yes, producer driven, etc... but wow.

I do hope RS is wrong, but I think the things she has said post-show could go either way. If she rejected him, she could still care enough about him not to want him to be raked over the coals, and she would defend herself for letting him on the show either way as well.

I don't know about the proposal. Maybe the producers didn't give in on this one. The ones they've let her let go early have resulted in dramatic scenes; letting someone down easily isn't quite the same in terms of exciting/dramatic television. Or maybe she was waffling until the end on it, didn't know what he was going to say, or didn't know how she was going to feel about it. If there wasn't a clear other choice, I could see her questioning herself right up until the last minute. And the producers I'm sure didn't help in that regard.

elyn wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:So let me get this straight:

Post-show:
... Kaitlyn says that Nick got a bad rap last season.
... That she believes he was on the show only for her and for the right reasons.
... That she had to be selfish and follow her heart and take a risk and explore what could be with Nick no matter the backlash or how unfair it is to the guys because it is about her forever and her happiness.

And so, with K saying all this post-show, per RS she let Nick propose to her and told him no?

Wow! Can someone please explain to me how that makes any sense for K to let Nick propose to her if she didn't want him? She lets guys go pre-RC all season long but not Nick? Yes, producer driven, etc... but wow.

I do hope RS is wrong, but I think the things she has said post-show could go either way. If she rejected him, she could still care enough about him not to want him to be raked over the coals, and she would defend herself for letting him on the show either way as well.

I don't know about the proposal. Maybe the producers didn't give in on this one. The ones they've let her let go early have resulted in dramatic scenes; letting someone down easily isn't quite the same in terms of exciting/dramatic television. Or maybe she was waffling until the end on it, didn't know what he was going to say, or didn't know how she was going to feel about it. If there wasn't a clear other choice, I could see her questioning herself right up until the last minute. And the producers I'm sure didn't help in that regard.

The last F2 that proposed was Ben, so I'm sure the producers are thinking "it's time". Also, I think that people have made a good point that a lot of Bachelorettes have made concessions which made them "earn" not having to go through with that final proposal (Frank leaving, Eric dying, Brooks leaving, Emily being Emily). Until this point, it seemed like Kaitlyn had gotten everything her way so I can see producers making her do it.

Also, Nick already got to leave pre-proposal last season. I just don't think that there was any way that they were going to have him leave in the same exact way this season. It would be too boring. I think that he had to be the last one there OR, if he got dumped, he had to propose.

IA that taking Nick to FRC, having him propose and getting dumped is the only difference TPTB could get this time around from the last. If K chooses no one then it wouldn't matter anyway, she dumps them both.

Wonder if this is why Nick was all out of bubble gum May 4th.

I do think 'all out of bubble gum' meant he was free of tptb. But we know he seems very happy in every photo since he got back, so I can't imagine that he left the bubble on a negative note this time. Does that mean he got the girl, or doesn't care that he didn't get the girl? Can't wait to see it unfold.

BKay wrote:I do think 'all out of bubble gum' meant he was free of tptb. But we know he seems very happy in every photo since he got back, so I can't imagine that he left the bubble on a negative note this time. Does that mean he got the girl, or doesn't care that he didn't get the girl? Can't wait to see it unfold.

Or does it mean he is finally settled with them after he was filmed spoiling their season

Whatever the deal with Nick was for have him join TB, I do believe in his honest intentions and that what we've seen in episode 4 was indeed Nick with a crush ... so I don't believe he was faking the interest for the show ... but if there was programmed different ending than the one he may had hoped prior and Kaitlyn & Nick were honest to each other in FS, maybe, maybe he knew what's gonna happen and what was asked of him to do - that's my take on his good-vibes attitude post show. We'll see when we get there.

sbolduc wrote:

BKay wrote:I do think 'all out of bubble gum' meant he was free of tptb. But we know he seems very happy in every photo since he got back, so I can't imagine that he left the bubble on a negative note this time. Does that mean he got the girl, or doesn't care that he didn't get the girl? Can't wait to see it unfold.

Or does it mean he is finally settled with them after he was filmed spoiling their season

Now there's a thought! Maybe that was the plan all along and K was in on it with Nick? It could explain why she is seen in the promo for next week asking Shawn if he trusts her after she lets Nick on (and after she already said she sees her husband in the room that Nick wasn't in).

That being said, N & K's chemistry is undeniable. Hard to make that up. But it does seem like Nick is getting the physical edit which is such a F2 thing. If that's the emphasis between K&N edit-wise -- their physical connection -- then yup, very F2-ish, imo.

What a mess.

AllAboutLove wrote:

sbolduc wrote:Or does it mean he is finally settled with them after he was filmed spoiling their season

Now there's a thought! Maybe that was the plan all along and K was in on it with Nick? It could explain why she is seen in the promo for next week asking Shawn if he trusts her after she lets Nick on (and after she already said she sees her husband in the room that Nick wasn't in). (snipped)

That idea stays in the back of my mind, and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

But whatever the reason he came back on, it has totally changed what was a snoozefest season.

So many theories because of RS and nothing more to go on. I don't read his column so forgive me if its been asked and answered. Has he said he has proof of any the spoilers regarding Nick? For the life of me, I can't figure out Nicks sm and instagram activity or the fact he exudes a very happy guy in every photo. He's just too serious when it comes to matters of his heart to play along so easily if his heart is broken. I will watch til the end just to figure out how that happy came to be.