Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #3

I still think Nick doesn't equate sex with marriage.
But I think in the FS, he incorrectly assumed, being it was right before the FRC, that it meant something more, at that time. Maybe he and Kaitlyn discussed all that prior to having sex, if he even is the one she had sex with.

I know we won't all agree on that. But one thing we can agree on is Nick is very polarizing!

Alanna wrote:If he's f1 and wonderful to Kait, then that's awesome and I'll root for them fully. However, right now he's not yet Kait's f1, and I personally find him totally hypocritical. Why didn't he pursue her for the 3 months he had while the show was airing and they were texting? Ehh. I can't get onboard with everything he says and then his actions, which totally contradict the moral po-po status he tried to claim last season.

He couldn't openly pursue her. Chris's season was airing and she was final 3.

ironcat wrote:I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proven he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

Excuse me and I want to ask this politely, what social perks that come with being part of Bach Nation he had enjoyed? I think I follow him pretty closely, but he has never participated in any public viewing party, Bach events, writing books or selling anything. The few occasions I can think of are his writing one piece for Sean, one for Bustle, fundraising for a breast cancer patient. He didn't tweet, retweet or fave his guest appearance in Marquette university. He posts pictures with fans and live tweet during Bach shows, anything else?

Given how choppy and splice and dice that preview is with Kaitlyn telling someone "we had sex", the S\C of Nick's face when she says it, wanting imo to mislead us to believe Nick was pre FS sex guy, I think it's at least possible Nick is the one she tells she had sex with another guy.

Woah. Lots of assumptions flying around here before we even see how things play out this time on the (highly edited and manipulated) "journey."

Nick is human. Humans can be slightly hypocritical. He's not evil. He's also not perfect. And NO ONE that shows up in any incarnation of this show is "above it." If you go on even once, you made that choice and are apart of it- not above it, and this includes Nick. I also agree with Nutty, it's about timing with Andi. In addition though, you need to take into account the possibility that Nick also thought he was F1 and doing potential "fiancé stuff" with Kaitlyn as well, all beit early.

Typical splice-n-dice in the editing room IMHO. Reports of Nick's demise via "sexgate" have been greatly exaggerated.

sdmom wrote:

ironcat wrote:I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proven he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

Excuse me and I want to ask this politely, what social perks that come with being part of Bach Nation he had enjoyed? I think I follow him pretty closely, but he has never participated in any public viewing party, Bach events, writing books or selling anything. The few occasions I can think of are his writing one piece for Sean, one for Bustle, fundraising for a breast cancer patient. He didn't tweet, retweet or fave his guest appearance in Marquette university. He posts pictures with fans and live tweet during Bach shows, anything else?

I want to know too! I always want to know where one gets the impression of he's very much into the Bach world, just try to understand their POV too.

But I guess for those who don't like him, see his every walks with bad motives.

luvlady345 wrote:Well some people or namely me never put Nick on a pedestal, far from it...  I for one never brought into Nick being above the franchise, how could he be he went on the show to begin with?  But by the same token, the sword you live by is the same sword you die by so to speak, if he and the fans can call out Andi's behavior, so be it.....

I don't see Nick and Andi as related to each other when it comes to their behaviors. I did not arrive at my opinion of either of them based on how I see the other. I'll speak for myself when I say I observe actions and I like when people are accountable for their actions even if they make mistakes and when they are honest about them. Nick is by NO means perfect but he embraces his flaws makes fun of himself and holds himself accountable to things he did wrong. That makes the difference imho. It won't take much sleuthing to show that he had a very particular edit that portrayed him alongside horror movie soundtracks etc. so I can understand how people won't see him simply based on his actions beyond the edit.

I by no means associated Andi's behavior with Nick to arrive at my opinion of her...I simply observe her actions even to this moment to get to that. I was a huge fan of Andi's amazed by and loving her badassery etc. esp in Juan Pab's season she was my favorite contestant.... so I was very excited to learn more about her during her own season. Then I saw her behavior with Eric RIP and it gave me pause -- why would she lash out cos he called her out when he was simply trying to ask her to give him a space where she lets down her guard? but I didn't take it too seriously, again she kept poking at JuanPab when he was dating her bff and that again made me confused why she'd need to do that - she's made her point already after her FS poking fun at him -- couldn't she be supportive now that he's dating Nikki? then Andi went ahead and the way she broke up with CS gave me a bad taste in my mouth and THAT is the moment the pieces connected I realized a different side of Andi than I'd ever seen. During her date with Josh she admitted it to him -- will you handle my diva side? and that's when I started to really get her behavior. I struggle with andi because I really think she's very intelligent and beautiful but she is still young and sees herself as invincible ...she upholds a tough shell and an air of perfectionism...I can totally relate to what might cause that and don't fault her for it but she also doesn't admit when she might have done something wrong and places the blame on other people. I find her actions lacking in compassion for others and very absorbed in her own circumstances. Again, I can understand why she would be that way but her lack of compassion at the core of it flipped the switch for me and I was no longer a fan of hers at that time...after that the AFTR with Nick happened and I know she was protecting josh in her demeanor but her being soooo cold and tough with Nick pushed him to make an exasperated -- "wait if I imagined all that that you had any feelings for me" 'why did you make love to me?' even now she's throwing Josh under the bus on sm favoriting tweets that say he's "slimy and not trustworthy" when she could simply say we each contributed to things that made the relationship fail. at the core of everything I see Andi's pursuit of perfection and an inability to admit her own faults as her downfall because it hinders her from being compassionate, humble or empathetic... I actually think and HOPE she's starting to crack her tough shell and hopefully self-reflect to continue to grow.

Sorry mods for discussing Andi but the question posed was about how ppl who are pro-nick say negative things Andi cos they are pro-nick and I had to clarify why that is not at all the case and that I upload independent opinions of them each based on their actions. My opinion about Andi changed after she broke up with CS and went on the date with Josh to tell him proudly about how much of a diva she is and asking him if he can handle that...

JMHO

But the same can be said about every bachelor/rette non fans peggy..  That's what makes the world go around some people will like you and some won't...  I personally hope Nick is F1, then his journey will be complete......

By social perks, I just meant tweeting with other BN members, and occasionally socializing with them, which I believe he has done, as well as giving his snarky impressions of/commentary about the subsequent shows, knowing that his fans will be hanging on his every word (as opposed to someone who has not been on the show who nobody would care about), and just generally enjoying participating to some degree (although certainly not as much as some others) in the BN universe, as opposed to distancing himself from any affiliation with the franchise, as some former contestants have done (it IS possible ). Just the fact that he reached out to Kaitlyn in a social capacity, assuming she would respond, because he was a known entity from the franchise, was a perk, which wouldn't have existed for him had he not been on the show.  Nothing wrong with that, IMO; my favorite, JP, still tweets about the show every week, so he also isn't "above" the franchise.  And yeah, Nick never said he was, but some of his fans were claiming that, after Andi's season.

Whenever anyone is put on a pedestal by their fans, other people are going to enjoy the opportunity to knock them off when presented with it.

Here's what the man said himself :
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/seanlowe/2014/08/nick-why-i-brought-up-the-fantasy-suite/

"To me what’s most important is that the two people involved have a clear understanding of what sex means to the other person. If the emotional attachment to sex isn’t equal, sex can be hurtful."
"Sex, when enjoyed in the right context, is a wonderful way to solidify a relationship. But when expectations aren’t the same for both partners, it can be devastating."

IMO, Nick doesn't regard sex can only happen between fiances. What happened between him and Andi was they didn't have the same understanding of what sex meant in that particular situation ("In my mind, I went back to that night in the fantasy suite. Though she couldn’t tell me that she loved me, I’d told her in no uncertain terms how I felt. I loved her. This was no fling for me. As far as I was concerned, we’d be engaged in a few days.

To me, sex between us was a big deal, and she knew it.

That’s why I feel Andi’s decision to have sex with me was not appropriate")

Maybe this time between him and Kaitlyn was different? We just have to wait and see!

Sorry Mods for bringing this up. If you think it not appropriate, please delete it. I apologize for any troubles this may bring.

Just out of curiosity, since Andi conveniently found herself laughing and talking, laying her head on Nick's shoulder with her friend Christy in Chicago, has she included any instagrams of her and Christy together again outside of Chicago esp since it became public knowledge Nick was all about Kaitlyn instead?