Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #3

I think it makes sense to question Nick’s participation this second round around. The first time you can say he was innocent, but not this time. He knew what he was getting into and must have carefully weighed the risks vs. rewards.

Everything I’ve observed from Nick indicates he came back on the show solely for the purposes of courting K. For the past year, Nick has not appeared at Bach functions, other functions where he’s using his notoriety (via PR) to make money, he’s not writing a book, he hasn’t accepted sponsorships via instagram or twitter, a chance to become the Bach or for his own show. He has a job; one that he says he loves. I believe him.

Without a doubt, Nick has enjoyed the leverage and influence the show has offered and may continue to offer (undoubtedly helped him grow his business, brought him positive notoriety via show tweeting, guest speaker at UVM, wrote and published a few highly cited online articles, and importantly, made an introduction to K easy). I don't think these actions reflect a thirst for fame or controversy. Is he using the show and certain aspects of his fame for his own benefit, yes, but to me it reads like a means to an end, not an end in itself. IMO, this is a subtle but significant difference.

Laudergirl wrote:

StacyNor wrote:I haven't read what you guys have wrote  just writing my opinion about this situation. The other day I wrote a piece about my thoughts of Kaitlyn the same treatment Nick will get.

I defended Nick loads of time last year. I was a fan and still am, but I cannot believe his hypocrisy. Shame on you if you fool me once, shame on me if you fool me twice. If we believe the spoilers and I do this guy went back to a show that humiliated him, a show that broke his heart, mocked by fans,trolls hating him on social media and the guy that said sex is a big deal to him to have it with someone like Kaitlyn in TV without the assurance that he will get the final rose. Who does that? If sex is a big deal to you Nick, why didn't you learn from the first time when you were dumped? What happened to finding love without the franchise? Some questions I have. I was very sympathetic to his situation last time but not this time. We can blame TPTB so far but him deciding going back to that show was a dumb decision in his part. Instead of learning from his mistake last year he went back for more humiliation. I'm sorry but this time no matter what happens in the show to Nick I won't feel sorry for him, he knew what he was getting into and he persisted to go through with it can't even blame Kaitlyn for it and I dislike her more than Andi. That must tell you something.

Great post, I agree.

I feel there are a lot of excuses made for Nick and a lot of hypocrisy. I remember after Andi's season many said he was too good for this franchise and that after being thrown under the bus by Andi and TPTB, he deserved better. It was the opinion of some that he was too smart and classy and they praised him for going back to his normal life in Chicago vs. trying to stay in the limelight like so many other previous contestants.  I find that ironic now since he is doing just the opposite.

I always saw through Nick and felt he was ALL about this franchise and wanting to keep his name out there. It was obvious to me in the way he followed, favorited and retweeted so many posts from other Bach Nation people, the way he live tweeted the show, the way he reached out to Kaitlyn privately and then playfully flirted with her publically on SM and now in the way he shows up to be on her season in a dramatic way. This is not the behavior of a guy that is too classy for or above this franchise in my opinion. This is the behavior of a guy that likes the attention and the controversy it causes.

So, if Nick doesn't end up getting the girl in the end, or if he gets a bad edit this season, or if he catches a lot of flack from bachelor fans or the media, I think he has it coming. He can not blame anyone but himself, nor should his fans. JMHO.

Now, if he gets the girl, and it seems genuine and they both seem happy, I may change my tune about him.

maybe it's worth considering how the lead talks about why and how he went on the show? she gave several interviews to E! Online, EXTRA and ABC6 about that very thing and she kept reiterating that she truly believes that he'd not put himself through all that if he did not feel so strongly about her. She's the one making decisions and she's the one who knows him in real life...

I can totally understand where you're coming from and how the dots connect in the way you described it but since this is Kaitlyn's search for love I think maybe it's worth taking it the way she sees it and to see how it unfolds?

I don't think the fact that he gets her or not is ultimately due to his intentions particularly due to the fact she seems to have no mixed feelings about his intentions. but if she picks him will depend on whether she feels he's the right match for her which he might not be or he might be. 

your perspective is welcome here tho...always worth seeing things from diff angles! 

I do agree with you that people make exceptions and excuses for the contestant they like -- that is a very true statement and can be true for every single contestant that comes on this show so it's worthwhile being aware of that and aware that we're not creating double standards for diff ppl etc.

cheers... 

julychild wrote:"The risk of love, whatever the consequence, is always worth it." - Brady Toops

If he's f1 and wonderful to Kait, then that's awesome and I'll root for them fully. However, right now he's not yet Kait's f1, and I personally find him totally hypocritical. Why didn't he pursue her for the 3 months he had while the show was airing and they were texting? Ehh. I can't get onboard with everything he says and then his actions, which totally contradict the moral po-po status he tried to claim last season.

I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proven he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

ironcat wrote:I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proved he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

What are we going to say if sexgate is Shawn??

The preview made it so obvious that Nick shows up, they have unethical (in crazy Bach World terms) sex, everything goes wrong for Kait and she ends up alone, just like Steve said. I can't help but think/hope that it's misdirection because otherwise it's too boring to show everything in the preview.

Alanna wrote:If he's f1 and wonderful to Kait, then that's awesome and I'll root for them fully. However, right now he's not yet Kait's f1, and I personally find him totally hypocritical. Why didn't he pursue her for the 3 months he had while the show was airing and they were texting? Ehh. I can't get onboard with everything he says and then his actions, which totally contradict the moral po-po status he tried to claim last season.

Well said.  Two bachelorettes, two sex scandals, and one Nick who was presumptuous with both Bachelorettes about where he thought the level of their relationship stood = Great TV drama.

ironcat wrote:I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proven he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

EXACTLY, hypocrite much? Let's take it a step further if he is the F1 an it has been said that Kaitlyn had sex with all 3 of her final guys now how would that jive with Nick's convictions, I guess if he is F1 one it wouldn't matter...

Alanna wrote:

ironcat wrote:I think Nick, by his own actions, has certainly proved he isn't too good for this franchise, and that he enjoys the social perks that come with being part of "Bachelor Nation".  I don't doubt that he liked Kaitlyn, and don't think he would have volunteered to go on the show again if the Bachelorette selected had been someone he had no interest in, but I do doubt that he was so enamored with Kaitlyn and was so desperate to win her heart that he was compelled to go on the show again despite how "victimized" he was the last time by the big bad producers.  If he is "sex guy", I do find sweet irony in how he made Andi's poor choice in sleeping with him into some crusade about the significance of sex, with him taking the role of the noble, principled, sincere guy that every girl would admire, and then turned it on its head, by creating the impression of jumping the gun with Kaitlyn, and in essence, disrespecting the show's unwritten rules of sex etiquette.  Can't wait to see how this actually plays out.

What are we going to say if sexgate is Shawn??

The preview made it so obvious that Nick shows up, they have unethical (in crazy Bach World terms) sex, everything goes wrong for Kait and she ends up alone, just like Steve said. I can't help but think/hope that it's misdirection because otherwise it's too boring to show everything in the preview.

Great post!! I think they're giving that storyline to us on a platter to a point it had me reeling ...say whattt they'll give us the WHOLE storyline for more than half the show on their previews when has THAT ever happened with TPTB...until we have some real sleuthed evidence of who that is I'm curious to find out...

I want to say as well that there's a lot of rhetoric that's built around Nick on this board that has nothing to do with anything he's claimed to be or do. Nick himself has never claimed to be above this franchise, nor has he put himself as morally superior -- he simply said that he apologizes for making that statement to Andi on such a public forum he had no intention of shaming her he apologized multiple times for that action and took full ownership of it he apologized to Andi and to Josh and wished them well
...he also explained that he had gotten a different impression about the FS night due to his confession of his feelings and the way Andi was behaving with him after that confession. He wishes she would have given him different signs if she was not intending to let him propose. This statement came after she flat out told him she had never had any feelings of falling in love with him. 

None of this to me sounds like he's above anything or even that he's a victim....he completely owned his share in the action and apologized to her AND to Josh for his faults... he repeatedly he also made fun of himself for that moment and also during CS' AFTR. He did not claim to be nobel, principled or sincere he simply explained why he understood that she had deeper feelings than she had through her demeanor and through her having sex with him. He only asked for an explanation. He also did not bring up any etiquette about sex he simply said sex is something that is worth talking about because it matters.

I feel like we put Nick on such a pedestal in this forum when he never asked to be put on one nor does HE HIMSELF think he deserves to be put on. He is someone who owns up to his flaws and is not afraid to talk about them... I don't think we need to put him on any pedestals whether it be about him going on the show or how he talks about sex or anything. Nick is a dude who takes big risks rather than wonder "what if" he also is accountable to his actions and is honest even if that doesn't help him or his public persona... 

that's JHMO...carry on!

I love how Nick is still the centre of the discussion!! People hate him, but they still try to analysis his every moves.

I can't wait to see the season unfold, and if he really gets to the end, f1 or not, seeing how he annoys so many viewers is entertaining already.

I will only ask to wait and see what exactly happened. First, we don't even have any proof other than RS its Nick. Second, maybe Kaitlyn and Nick both agreed sex was for fun and nothing more under the circumstance. As long as it's mutual agreement and understanding, I am ok with it. 
If you follow his sm, you would see he was very supportive of Kaitlyn then his tone changed to flirtatious. He even said in one of a video clip for selfish reason, he'd hope Brit will be the bachelorette. I do think if Kaitlyn was not the lead, he would pursue her, but the timing wasn't right. So he decided to go get her. 
Nick doesn't care what fans and non fans think of him. He's the one quoting "Love is everything cracked up to be. It's really worth fighting for, risking everything for. " Didn't kaitlyn fave something about she prefer a warrior over a nice guy? If Nick is f1, great. If not, at least he tried and I can almost hear him sayin No Regrets. No what ifs.

Well some people or namely me never put Nick on a pedestal, far from it...  I for one never brought into Nick being above the franchise, how could he be he went on the show to begin with?  But by the same token, the sword you live by is the same sword you die by so to speak, if he and the fans can call out Andi's behavior, so be it.....