Re: Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Discussion

by LibbyBell Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:04 am

Lucas15 wrote:
LibbyBell wrote:This is exactly what Ben did; put everyone and everything else out of his mind so that all he focused on was how he was with Ashley-- I don't even think he even bothered to analyze how Ashley was with him.

This is a very astute and I think accurate observation of Ben. I don't think he ever really gave consideration to Ashley's side of the equation and that led him to be totally blindsided when he learned that she didn't feel the way about him that he felt about her. Adopting a position in a relationship that "because I love her she has to love me" is probably not a good idea.

Thanks Lucas, I feel he was very naive to adopt this position, as well.

by Guest Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:28 am

LibbyBell wrote:
Lucas15 wrote:
LibbyBell wrote:This is exactly what Ben did; put everyone and everything else out of his mind so that all he focused on was how he was with Ashley-- I don't even think he even bothered to analyze how Ashley was with him.

This is a very astute and I think accurate observation of Ben. I don't think he ever really gave consideration to Ashley's side of the equation and that led him to be totally blindsided when he learned that she didn't feel the way about him that he felt about her. Adopting a position in a relationship that "because I love her she has to love me" is probably not a good idea.

Thanks Lucas, I feel he was very naive to adopt this position, as well.

Lucas I loved hearing from a man's point of view, and I too, believe that's exactly what happened. I feel it's unfair to blame Ashley.

by logomaniac Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:45 am

The ending I would like to see is the Bachlorette propose to the F1! That would be fun.

by Love_Me Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:49 am

Maybe Ben left the way he did because he was embarrassed and shocked at what just happened. I mean it is not like it is only he and Ashley standing there going through this. There are numerous camera men and if MF was standing near by. Until, I see what actually went down or hear how it went down without the magic of editing I can only speculate what Ben was really feeling in that moment of being rejected. JMO

by Thomigirl Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:18 am

Love_Me wrote:Maybe Ben left the way he did because he was embarrassed and shocked at what just happened. I mean it is not like it is only he and Ashley standing there going through this. There are numerous camera men and if MF was standing near by. Until, I see what actually went down or hear how it went down without the magic of editing I can only speculate what Ben was really feeling in that moment of being rejected. JMO

I have to say I agree with this. I don't blame Ashley and I most CERTAINLY don't blame Ben. My heart goes out to him. No matter WHAT he was feeling, to have that happen for millions of people to see is never easy.

by albean99 Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:16 am

Love_Me wrote:Maybe Ben left the way he did because he was embarrassed and shocked at what just happened. I mean it is not like it is only he and Ashley standing there going through this. There are numerous camera men and if MF was standing near by. Until, I see what actually went down or hear how it went down without the magic of editing I can only speculate what Ben was really feeling in that moment of being rejected. JMO

I think he was also completely hurt by this. He worked so hard to open up to Ashley and this relationship and then she rejects him in the worst possible way. I noticed last night in the Ryan clip had Ashley telling him how hard it was for her while sending him home. She should have rethought that with him and also from what we've been told, Ben. It's not about her at that point and I think for some strange reason she thought it would make them feel better but it makes her seem to lack empathy. I'd like to think that's not true so may be just her not reading guys very well.

by ironcat Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:53 am

allykat wrote:I have never, not once, ever picked the F1 on this show so I’m used to suffering through posts speculating that the relationship with the F2 was one-sided. This year I finally got to see the love story with the F1, but I feel for Ben fans. We have the benefit of watching her time with both JP and Ben and realizing the difference in the relationships, Ben didn’t have that clarity. I don’t blame him at all for thinking he was the one.

Since I’m already on this subject, I’ll also say that I think Ashely is partly to blame for him being blindsided. She lets the guys set the tone - JP is obviously an open communicator, whereas Ben is more of a go with the flow ‘you’ll figure it out’ kind of guy - and she responds to each in kind. On her FD with JP she brings up potential concerns and they talk about them together...competition, the other guys, holding back. On her FD with Ben she doesn’t really ask questions or deal with any obstacles, she just goes with the flow. I think that’s part of the reason Ben is blindsided - she never addressed any concerns (particularly with the process) so he didn't think they existed. Ben says something like they can gauge what each other is thinking...so they are assuming what the other one is thinking instead of talking about it like she does with JP. It’s just totally different. All of this is to say that Ashley could have taken more control over their relationship and handled it better. Instead of just going with the flow she could have helped to navigate their communication a little so that he wouldn’t be blindsided. JP was prepared for heartbreak because they talked about it, but that wasn’t the case with Ben. I'm not saying it's all her fault, but she certainly has a part in it.

You're quite right that Ashley did not question Ben the same way that she did JP, but since she was probably pretty certain from early on that JP was her guy, there would be no reason to discuss her concerns with Ben the way she did with JP, because either it would end up leading him on further if they were able to hash them out, or it would discourage him prematurely, and she knows that the producers do expect her to lead at least one guy on all the way until the final episode, so she's not permitted to do that. In one way, Ben's somewhat naive nature and "go with the flow" attitude made him easier to take to F2 because Ashley was then able to avoid getting into any of those "tough" discussions with him, where she would have been either required to lie to his face, reveal too much and get in hot water with producers, or navigate through them with enough vague answers that it wouldn't have given him any more clarity anyway.

It's not fair, and obviously not real life, but the way the show is set up, it's up to the contestants to set the tone and take the initiative with the lead to get themselves further in the game, so to speak, not the other way around. The lead has certain responsibilities to fulfill, regardless of what they would really prefer to do.

by Guest Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 am

And clearly the ends justify the means...

by clueless Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:06 am

I have been reading all the discussions regarding who is to blame. Is it Ashley, is it Ben and so on. But my question is, why does there have to be someone to BLAME? In Bentley's case, he was a cad and was obviously handling a situation in a manner that was calculated to hurt AND that was beyond wrong....but Ashley is just a young girl who appears to be trying to figure her life out and making choices (some good, some bad, etc.) and Ben is a young man doing the same. Ben was hurt in the end, Ashley was hurt by hurting Ben....Ashley was hurt by Bentley, JP may be hurt by scenes he sees played out on national television that his friends and family will see...and life goes on and hearts mend and hearts are broken all over again and so on and so on. Smiley

by appiah01 Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:53 am

Not to be funny, but this is the Bachelorette. It's a reality tv show. Everyone who goes on this show does so with their eyes wide open. No one deserves to be hurt or manipulated but it is what everyone signs up for. I mean the show is approximately 20 or so seasons in at this point.

Hearing Ben speak makes me think that he was only proposing because it's what you do on this show rather than because he is ready to get married. He did a song called "Cream Dream" 8 months ago. He has brought 1 woman home and has said that this process helped him open up. I think he cares for Ashley but I highly doubt he was ready to marry her. I am not saying she should have let him propose but it is easy to get caught up in the whole process, which is likely what happened to both Ashley and Ben.

Maybe Ben was actually mad because he was humiliated and hadn't really wanted to propose to begin with so being rejected was twice as hard.

No one is really a villain on this show, even Bentley (who is more arrogant and stupid than evil- a bad combo). Feelings may get hurt but everyone gets over it. My generation has grown up with reality tv and everyone knows how it goes on these shows now.

Ashley liked Ben a lot but loved JP. This would never happen in real life but that's the nature of this show.

by bing2262 Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:59 am

clueless and appiah01....Great Posts. rock

by Guest Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:01 pm

"Maybe Ben was actually mad because he was humiliated and hadn't really wanted to propose to begin with so being rejected was twice as hard. "

But then what was to be gained? a fiancee you don't want??
I do totally get the Bachelor bubble thing and do now see the cupcake love... It is likely Ben does at this point as well. But probably did not at the time. (One of his favorite lines, "Who'd a thunk it?" suggests to me he was totally caught off-guard by the whole Bachette situation and the emotions evoked....) Was Ashley MORE prepared for him to come out and say, "I'm not in love with you, you have my blessings, go find JP and have a great life..."? Doubtful... By the end he was telling her he loved her.... that is a gift no matter how you slice it. She could've given him a gift in return - a preemptive, easy letdown - but was not adequately prepared to do so. Does that make her horrible? no. Am I as a viewer likely to be very disappointed about that? I know it makes me sound unforgiving/judgmental, but my honest answer to that is "Yes".

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