Re: Final Rose Ceremony - Screencaps - Discussion

by chaslom4 Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:10 pm

Samantharose wrote:
bluwavz wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:
BachetteFan wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:I hope I'm posting this in the right place. If not, feel free to move it. I don't know if this has been discussed already or not but I haven't been able to locate anything. If it has, please direct me to the correct thread. On to my subject: The dynamic between Ben and JP at the RC from hometown dates on and also, Ben's rejection.

I remember Ben teasing JP about his feelings for Ashley during the 4th episode. From that, I got the impression they were pretty chummy. This was just prior to the orphanage date, after which, Ben emerged as a possible contender. I'm very curious to know whether this changed the relationship between Ben and JP and how awkward it must have been for them at the rose ceremonies; particularly that last one in Fiji when it was just the two of them. We may never know how their friendship (if there ever really was one) was impacted. I just find myself wondering about that a lot.

With regard to Ben's rejection, I am flabbergasted that he was blindsided. He recognized early on (4th episode) that JP was developing feelings for Ashley. Those feelings had to be based on some sort of connection between the two of them one would think. That coupled with the fact that Ashley continued to give JP roses should have been a red flag for Ben. He knew JP was older and presumably more experienced with women (perhaps he saw that as a disadvantage to JP). I'm not understanding why he didn't consider JP to be a serious contender. In Taiwan, Ben didn't think JP would come back from the group date with the rose. He thought it would go to Lucas. Lucas went home that episode and JP came back with the rose. That should have told him JP was one to keep his eye on. I don't recall them airing any footage of Ben worrying about the competition. On the other hand, JP who has always felt he had a strong connection with Ashley, was constantly shown worrying about the competition. Very strange. Any thoughts?

Closetwatcher! I think it was Chantal who said in one of her interviews that the contestants were instructed not to interact or talk with each other during the later RC.

Interesting question about JP and Ben's relationship. I'm surprised Ben was caught off guard also as it was in HK that Ashley told JP first about the Bentley stuff. Ben should have picked up on that red flag!!

IMO they purposefully included some of the red flags that Ben missed, such as the group date rose in Taiwan and JP being told first about Bentley coming back. These are the things that I find interesting to see when re-watching some of the episodes.

I didn't know they were given instructions not to interact. Interesting. I'm sure by the time they return from hometowns, they don't really want to interact with each other unless it is to tell them to get lost. LOL! Particularly if they have reached the point of considering a proposal.

Regarding the red flags...I had completely forgotten about JP being told about Bentley's return before the others. Even if Ben weren't present during the time, I'm sure the other guys filled him in. Makes me wonder even more how he could have gone to the FRC without considering the possibility that JP might be F1.

I watched back that scene and all the guys were present when JP told them about Bentley's return. I can come up with maybe one reason why Ben wasn't worried about it. When Ashley told the guys about Bentley's return, she didn't tell them exactly when Bentley came back. Ben may have assumed he came back before JP's date, but after Lucas' date and the group date and that's why she told JP before anyone else. That's really the only possibility I can come up with.

I know it sounds cynical, but maybe Ben was given a financial incentive to hang around or act out at the FRC? This is Fleiss were dealing with! LOL Ben did get alot of exposure for his wine.

I guess with Fleiss, anything is possible. I do have to say though that the amount of exposure his wine got always kind of left me scratch

. Why was Ben allowed to promote his wine to some extent but Jesse K. said he wasn't?

by bluwavz Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:18 pm

Samantharose wrote:
bluwavz wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:
BachetteFan wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:I hope I'm posting this in the right place. If not, feel free to move it. I don't know if this has been discussed already or not but I haven't been able to locate anything. If it has, please direct me to the correct thread. On to my subject: The dynamic between Ben and JP at the RC from hometown dates on and also, Ben's rejection.

I remember Ben teasing JP about his feelings for Ashley during the 4th episode. From that, I got the impression they were pretty chummy. This was just prior to the orphanage date, after which, Ben emerged as a possible contender. I'm very curious to know whether this changed the relationship between Ben and JP and how awkward it must have been for them at the rose ceremonies; particularly that last one in Fiji when it was just the two of them. We may never know how their friendship (if there ever really was one) was impacted. I just find myself wondering about that a lot.

With regard to Ben's rejection, I am flabbergasted that he was blindsided. He recognized early on (4th episode) that JP was developing feelings for Ashley. Those feelings had to be based on some sort of connection between the two of them one would think. That coupled with the fact that Ashley continued to give JP roses should have been a red flag for Ben. He knew JP was older and presumably more experienced with women (perhaps he saw that as a disadvantage to JP). I'm not understanding why he didn't consider JP to be a serious contender. In Taiwan, Ben didn't think JP would come back from the group date with the rose. He thought it would go to Lucas. Lucas went home that episode and JP came back with the rose. That should have told him JP was one to keep his eye on. I don't recall them airing any footage of Ben worrying about the competition. On the other hand, JP who has always felt he had a strong connection with Ashley, was constantly shown worrying about the competition. Very strange. Any thoughts?

Closetwatcher! I think it was Chantal who said in one of her interviews that the contestants were instructed not to interact or talk with each other during the later RC.

Interesting question about JP and Ben's relationship. I'm surprised Ben was caught off guard also as it was in HK that Ashley told JP first about the Bentley stuff. Ben should have picked up on that red flag!!

IMO they purposefully included some of the red flags that Ben missed, such as the group date rose in Taiwan and JP being told first about Bentley coming back. These are the things that I find interesting to see when re-watching some of the episodes.

I didn't know they were given instructions not to interact. Interesting. I'm sure by the time they return from hometowns, they don't really want to interact with each other unless it is to tell them to get lost. LOL! Particularly if they have reached the point of considering a proposal.

Regarding the red flags...I had completely forgotten about JP being told about Bentley's return before the others. Even if Ben weren't present during the time, I'm sure the other guys filled him in. Makes me wonder even more how he could have gone to the FRC without considering the possibility that JP might be F1.

I watched back that scene and all the guys were present when JP told them about Bentley's return. I can come up with maybe one reason why Ben wasn't worried about it. When Ashley told the guys about Bentley's return, she didn't tell them exactly when Bentley came back. Ben may have assumed he came back before JP's date, but after Lucas' date and the group date and that's why she told JP before anyone else. That's really the only possibility I can come up with.

I know it sounds cynical, but maybe Ben was given a financial incentive to hang around or act out at the FRC? This is Fleiss were dealing with! LOL Ben did get alot of exposure for his wine.

I really hope that's not the case. I personally don't think it is, though he may have originally agreed to do the show for exposure. That really goes for all the guys on the show, though. None of them go on the show to find love. The exposure of his wine might be more the fact that they want him for the next Bachelor or they're making it up to him for what happened at the FRC. We'll find out for sure at the FRC and see if his reaction seems genuine. I think it will be.

by Closetwatcher Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:20 pm

Samantharose wrote:
bluwavz wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:
BachetteFan wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:I hope I'm posting this in the right place. If not, feel free to move it. I don't know if this has been discussed already or not but I haven't been able to locate anything. If it has, please direct me to the correct thread. On to my subject: The dynamic between Ben and JP at the RC from hometown dates on and also, Ben's rejection.

I remember Ben teasing JP about his feelings for Ashley during the 4th episode. From that, I got the impression they were pretty chummy. This was just prior to the orphanage date, after which, Ben emerged as a possible contender. I'm very curious to know whether this changed the relationship between Ben and JP and how awkward it must have been for them at the rose ceremonies; particularly that last one in Fiji when it was just the two of them. We may never know how their friendship (if there ever really was one) was impacted. I just find myself wondering about that a lot.

With regard to Ben's rejection, I am flabbergasted that he was blindsided. He recognized early on (4th episode) that JP was developing feelings for Ashley. Those feelings had to be based on some sort of connection between the two of them one would think. That coupled with the fact that Ashley continued to give JP roses should have been a red flag for Ben. He knew JP was older and presumably more experienced with women (perhaps he saw that as a disadvantage to JP). I'm not understanding why he didn't consider JP to be a serious contender. In Taiwan, Ben didn't think JP would come back from the group date with the rose. He thought it would go to Lucas. Lucas went home that episode and JP came back with the rose. That should have told him JP was one to keep his eye on. I don't recall them airing any footage of Ben worrying about the competition. On the other hand, JP who has always felt he had a strong connection with Ashley, was constantly shown worrying about the competition. Very strange. Any thoughts?

Closetwatcher! I think it was Chantal who said in one of her interviews that the contestants were instructed not to interact or talk with each other during the later RC.

Interesting question about JP and Ben's relationship. I'm surprised Ben was caught off guard also as it was in HK that Ashley told JP first about the Bentley stuff. Ben should have picked up on that red flag!!

IMO they purposefully included some of the red flags that Ben missed, such as the group date rose in Taiwan and JP being told first about Bentley coming back. These are the things that I find interesting to see when re-watching some of the episodes.

I didn't know they were given instructions not to interact. Interesting. I'm sure by the time they return from hometowns, they don't really want to interact with each other unless it is to tell them to get lost. LOL! Particularly if they have reached the point of considering a proposal.

Regarding the red flags...I had completely forgotten about JP being told about Bentley's return before the others. Even if Ben weren't present during the time, I'm sure the other guys filled him in. Makes me wonder even more how he could have gone to the FRC without considering the possibility that JP might be F1.

I watched back that scene and all the guys were present when JP told them about Bentley's return. I can come up with maybe one reason why Ben wasn't worried about it. When Ashley told the guys about Bentley's return, she didn't tell them exactly when Bentley came back. Ben may have assumed he came back before JP's date, but after Lucas' date and the group date and that's why she told JP before anyone else. That's really the only possibility I can come up with.

I know it sounds cynical, but maybe Ben was given a financial incentive to hang around or act out at the FRC? This is Fleiss were dealing with! LOL Ben did get alot of exposure for his wine.

[b]

That makes more sense to me than Ben being blindsided.

by bluwavz Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:21 pm

chaslom4 wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
bluwavz wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:
BachetteFan wrote:
Samantharose wrote:
Closetwatcher wrote:I hope I'm posting this in the right place. If not, feel free to move it. I don't know if this has been discussed already or not but I haven't been able to locate anything. If it has, please direct me to the correct thread. On to my subject: The dynamic between Ben and JP at the RC from hometown dates on and also, Ben's rejection.

I remember Ben teasing JP about his feelings for Ashley during the 4th episode. From that, I got the impression they were pretty chummy. This was just prior to the orphanage date, after which, Ben emerged as a possible contender. I'm very curious to know whether this changed the relationship between Ben and JP and how awkward it must have been for them at the rose ceremonies; particularly that last one in Fiji when it was just the two of them. We may never know how their friendship (if there ever really was one) was impacted. I just find myself wondering about that a lot.

With regard to Ben's rejection, I am flabbergasted that he was blindsided. He recognized early on (4th episode) that JP was developing feelings for Ashley. Those feelings had to be based on some sort of connection between the two of them one would think. That coupled with the fact that Ashley continued to give JP roses should have been a red flag for Ben. He knew JP was older and presumably more experienced with women (perhaps he saw that as a disadvantage to JP). I'm not understanding why he didn't consider JP to be a serious contender. In Taiwan, Ben didn't think JP would come back from the group date with the rose. He thought it would go to Lucas. Lucas went home that episode and JP came back with the rose. That should have told him JP was one to keep his eye on. I don't recall them airing any footage of Ben worrying about the competition. On the other hand, JP who has always felt he had a strong connection with Ashley, was constantly shown worrying about the competition. Very strange. Any thoughts?

Closetwatcher! I think it was Chantal who said in one of her interviews that the contestants were instructed not to interact or talk with each other during the later RC.

Interesting question about JP and Ben's relationship. I'm surprised Ben was caught off guard also as it was in HK that Ashley told JP first about the Bentley stuff. Ben should have picked up on that red flag!!

IMO they purposefully included some of the red flags that Ben missed, such as the group date rose in Taiwan and JP being told first about Bentley coming back. These are the things that I find interesting to see when re-watching some of the episodes.

I didn't know they were given instructions not to interact. Interesting. I'm sure by the time they return from hometowns, they don't really want to interact with each other unless it is to tell them to get lost. LOL! Particularly if they have reached the point of considering a proposal.

Regarding the red flags...I had completely forgotten about JP being told about Bentley's return before the others. Even if Ben weren't present during the time, I'm sure the other guys filled him in. Makes me wonder even more how he could have gone to the FRC without considering the possibility that JP might be F1.

I watched back that scene and all the guys were present when JP told them about Bentley's return. I can come up with maybe one reason why Ben wasn't worried about it. When Ashley told the guys about Bentley's return, she didn't tell them exactly when Bentley came back. Ben may have assumed he came back before JP's date, but after Lucas' date and the group date and that's why she told JP before anyone else. That's really the only possibility I can come up with.

I know it sounds cynical, but maybe Ben was given a financial incentive to hang around or act out at the FRC? This is Fleiss were dealing with! LOL Ben did get alot of exposure for his wine.

I guess with Fleiss, anything is possible. I do have to say though that the amount of exposure his wine got always kind of left me . Why was Ben allowed to promote his wine to some extent but Jesse K. said he wasn't?

Jesse probably wasn't allowed to promote his wine because they already had Wes promoting his music during Jillian's season. Any other guy promoting himself during that season would've distracted from Wes' villain storyline.

by mnmhughes Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:18 pm

I don't know Ben, but from what I saw of him on my screen, he doesn't seem the type to just haphazardly propose. Yes, he missed A LOT of signals and maybe we could "blame" him for that. But I don't think he would have proposed unless he felt like he really loved Ashley (with a good measure of TPTB influence thrown in).

by mnmhughes Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:19 pm

bing2262 wrote:

I think JP picked the middle ring on NL's right side as shown in SC#1.It looked like it has the biggest stone.

That's what I thought too, but does that look too close to princess-cut? Ashley said she doesn't like that style.
But it's very possible that it could be a cushion - cut diamond, and those are gorgeous too! :Nod:

by Closetwatcher Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:49 pm

mnmhughes wrote:I don't know Ben, but from what I saw of him on my screen, he doesn't seem the type to just haphazardly propose. Yes, he missed A LOT of signals and maybe we could "blame" him for that. But I don't think he would have proposed unless he felt like he really loved Ashley (with a good measure of TPTB influence thrown in).

It's not about the fact that he proposed. For me, it's about him being blindsided as if he were the only contender. Both he and JP should have been hoping for the best, but expecting the worst as they approached that podium.

by **Admin** Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:51 pm

Ashley probably picked out those 6 rings for the guys to choose from right? So she at least knows she will be getting one of the ones she picked out... lol

by albean99 Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:08 pm

mnmhughes wrote:I don't know Ben, but from what I saw of him on my screen, he doesn't seem the type to just haphazardly propose. Yes, he missed A LOT of signals and maybe we could "blame" him for that. But I don't think he would have proposed unless he felt like he really loved Ashley (with a good measure of TPTB influence thrown in).

IA & I'm sure he did miss some signals.

Regarding the discussion about missed red flags, I think JP starting to fall for Ashley early wasn't one of them IMO. That doesn't mean Ashley felt the same way about him plus why would you think she was anywhere near to making a decision at that point? Her telling JP about Bentley 1st could have been a red flag but we have no idea what she said to Ben about it in their 1 on 1 time. The guys who are now saying they saw something extra with JP have the benefit of watching what they didn't see then. Some have included Ben as having a special connection with Ashley. I think it's too bad that Ben thought he'd be the one but can't criticize him for missing signals when we didn't see much of his alone time with Ashley.

by LibbyBell Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:13 pm

San wrote:Ashley probably picked out those 6 rings for the guys to choose from right? So she at least knows she will be getting one of the ones she picked out... lol

That's my thought too San-- I can't imagine that they would give choices that she wouldn't like. That being said, I do think that NL knows her first choice and may steer the F1 to that particular ring.

by mnmhughes Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:19 pm

LibbyBell wrote:
San wrote:Ashley probably picked out those 6 rings for the guys to choose from right? So she at least knows she will be getting one of the ones she picked out...

That's my thought too San-- I can't imagine that they would give choices that she wouldn't like. That being said, I do think that NL knows her first choice and may steer the F1 to that particular ring.

Didn't we hear something about Roberto knowing which one was Ali's favorite because there was a dot on the box? Or was that a joke? giggling

by LibbyBell Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:31 pm

mnmhughes wrote:
LibbyBell wrote:
San wrote:Ashley probably picked out those 6 rings for the guys to choose from right? So she at least knows she will be getting one of the ones she picked out...

That's my thought too San-- I can't imagine that they would give choices that she wouldn't like. That being said, I do think that NL knows her first choice and may steer the F1 to that particular ring.

Didn't we hear something about Roberto knowing which one was Ali's favorite because there was a dot on the box? Or was that a joke?

I do think I remember that! I'm sure that they make it apparent to the F1 in some way!

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