Bachelor New Zealand - Art Green - Episode Discussion - *Sleuthing* - *Spoilers*

AllAboutLove wrote:

Aunties_Love wrote:Didn't Matilda get her individual date in epi 3?

Yes she did.  Sorry AL, must have missed this post 

Ok, thanks. LOL. Jumping around to here to sleuthing out Kaitlyn's season...getting confused myself.

Do we know how many epi's are in this season?

Kapiti wrote:Yay! Lots of opposing views and hearty debate! I'll add my 2c.
AAL I think your confidence in Matilda might come more from insider knowledge & post show sleuthing about her being the F1 rather than what we've seen so far with the edit. You mentioned earlier that you've contacted a few people in Auckland and that the general consensus is that everybody there knows its Art and Matilda at the end? On the Bach NZ Facebook page I noticed a comment last night that said they knew who the winner was but didn't want to get the person in trouble or something like that. Lots of people asked and they were PM'ing those people the answer. However after being hassled lots they eventually said publicly that it was Matilda. That comment and all the replies have now been deleted (I feel it's more likely to have been deleted by the page admin) yet other comments just saying things like 'Dani wins' and stuff like that are still there. I found that pretty suspicious.
I feel like because you know, you now feel confident to look harder at the show and try to give us the love story that the edit and producers haven't yet shown clearly. You also mentioned that Matilda is now friends with one of Arts close friends, which I think is another good sign for her being F1.
That being said, I can totally agree with HEA and Emusha that as far as the show goes, they are not showing us any kind of connection with those two yet. He's smiling at lots of people, he's physically intimate with 2, almost 3 of the women (no Matilda yet) and I feel like we only get the tiniest glimpse of what happens at the cocktail parties /one-on-one dates and how deep the conversations go. They've had 7 cocktail parties so far and I'm sure that lots of topics would've been covered with different girls. I'm sure normal things like 'what music do you like' 'what's your family like' 'do you want kids' 'where do you go for holidays' etc have been covered but not shown. So I don't agree that the fact that the lake house was brought up on Matilda's first date is significant. If Matilda is F1, I don't think he knows it yet at this stage of the show. If he was 100% on Matilda, I doubt he would be trying to initiate kisses with Alysha or continuing to kiss Dani. If Matilda is F1, I think the connection must start to develop and strengthen from here on out and hopefully on her next date.

Lol. I wish I could claim I knew she won. That would make my life a lot less stressful!!! Until I see something concrete completely then it is easy to say I am filtering my view through the lens of rumors or what I only reached out to find out (the same rumors you saw) if there was truth to it. This was THIS week. I have been sleuthing for 4 weeks,

Question: do you believe the rumors? It sounds like you know something... spill! hehe. You have been quiet on here lately...  

Just to provide some clarification.

If you got to my first post on this thread I said I believed that Matilda was F1 the minute she got the promo (the episodes hadn't even aired yet). It was just a hunch based on this being NZ first year doing the bachelor. I was not alone. Everyone was saying she was F1 at that moment on this board.

Next, after watching Art's M&G - I was bloooooown away by how Art responded to Matilda. I posted tons of s/caps in Matilda's thread on just this. You can search.

Then, after Poppy's date and even Matilda's date, I was a bit confused. There didn't seem to be as much focus anymore on Matilda and Art didn't have that same reaction he had from the first episode.

So I started sleuthing everyone's social media after I believe IIRC Kapiti said that Art had like a photo of Alysha's.

I only THEN posted that I thought Alysha may be F1 because TBNZ IG account was following her and Art only and that Art had ONLY liked Alysha's post. Also at the time we had no idea of the timeline of shooting. Alysha's SM activity was later than Matilda's so my first thought that she was F1 was not adding up if shooting ended in March and SM activity was valid.

So I was pretty much done at that point and gave up thinking, hey, maybe TBNZ didn't have a more obvious edit from the first show and maybe my hunch that Art fell for Matilda first episode was incorrect. I began to get on the bandwagon that SM activity was more important than what I was seeing on the screen. And yes, SEEing on the screen. I SEE Art look at Matilda differently.

The ONLY time I questioned anything was based on SM activity, NOT based on the edit. I don't believe at all that 1st season of TBNZ they would hide the F1 from the beginning or not have an intro video. Makes no sense, imo given that Mike said this is a love story. Art was only blown away with Matilda that first episode.

So, as to *insider info* I have none. I have what was posted on numerous SM accounts, FB for all the girls, and TBNZ groups and what you claim you saw as well. That is no different than seeing SM for Kaitlyn and Nick and Shawn for the bachelorette. I saw that people were saying that Matilda won and yes, I may be naive, but I am going back to what I saw with that M&G. Thus I posted those s/caps in Matilda's thread weeks ago.

I find it unfair to claim the reason I see Matilda as F1 because of something other than what one can see. I claimed this just like MANY of others claimed this on here, including people who are not even currently sleuthing on here. They just came onto the board and saw a photo of Matilda and said, yup, she is F1.

I did the same thing. And still am.

I saw her bio pic and said she is F1. Everything has been trying to find supporting evidence for that, whether edit, 1st limo, 1st rose, conversations about lake house and family with Art. Their SM activity with everyone...

There is no RS here. And even with RS, doesn't mean it is correct, or incorrect a la TBUS with Chris and Becca.

I only tried to verify these SM rumors this week(as you said, you saw these rumors yourself) but no one I know *knows* but I strongly believe that even if they don't know (as in they don't have proof) that the rumors are true based on what I see with Art from the first episode, his talking to Matilda about his lake house. If anything, your saying I have insider info is making me believe that you know the ending. That the rumors are true.  

Again, I posted those s/caps of Art and his reaction to her waaaaay before I was thinking Alysha may be F1. At this moment, I think Alysha may be F2 or something. I don't know.

So, hope this provides clarity. Just doing a search for my posts in the threads and one will see that is the trajectory of my thoughts.

If something changes, it changes. And I will change with it.

But I am going by what I see so far ON SCREEN and SM activity and I see Dani leading the pack right now and thought she may be F1 but when I saw that TWITTER exchange with Art, I no longer saw her as F1 at all, in any way. Neither does she have an intro video.

And yes, I do believe the F1 will get an intro video for the first season ever of TB in NZ. Alysha and Dani don't have one. Matilda also narrates a lot. She says she has genuine feelings, etc.

I could go on and on, but this is what I see so far. I felt this way about Sam and look how that still turned out, even though she was F1....

HEA wrote:so how many episode then and how many women each?

ep8 - F8 - group date - 2-on-1 (?) - 1-on-1
ep9 - F6 - 1-on-1 and 1 group date
ep10 - F5 - 1-on-1 and 1 group date
ep11 - hometown F4
ep12 - arthur family + FD
ep13 - finale

we know from ep 7 there were 9 remaining girls .

my speculation :

Ep 8: 9 to 7 girls

Ep 9: 7 to 4

im still on how the elimination will plays out ..it has to be so much accelerated in the next 2 epis to result in 4 girls by HTD, if HTD takes place on epis. 10. Maybe, there will be more than 14 episodes this season?..i guess 15 epis would be possible, with epis 14 and 15 airing on the same night, making the 2hr event ala US series.

so IMO alternate scenario * is :
*Ep 8: 9 to 7 girls
*Ep 9: 7 to 5
*Ep 10 :5 to 4

Ep. 10 (or 11) HTD : 4 to 3

Ep. 11 (or 12) . FD: 3 to 2

Ep. 12 . (or 13) WTA (?) ..somehow im leaning more there will be WTA since they liked to highlight the drama among the girls.

Ep. 13 (or 14). LCD+FRC: 2 to 1

Ep. 14 (or 15 ).ATFR

Currently watching and I was wrong about the pool party being all the girls..

The group date is 5 girls =Matilda, Poppy, Chrystal, Amanda, and Danielle.

Matilda gets the group date rose!!

So she was on a group date which is a great sign and got a group rose! I think Amanda may go home like we thought.

I cannot wait to do s/caps.... I hope to God that we have been correct about Matilda as F1 based on Art's first impression of her and subsequent interaction. I love how Art is with Matilda and she with him. I don't see the friend vibe and never have. A guy does NOT react the way that Art did at M&G or look at her the way he does if he is friends only.

I see Poppy going F4 with a HTD after today as well... too cute their little flirtation between Art and her. Plus, this ties in with her PI from earlier episodes talking about her dad's approval (which indicates pre-HTD or during/post-HTD).

Ep 8: Amanda left

Preview for Ep 9:
- The remaining 8 girls now travel
- SD is the waterfall date. Waterfall girl is Kristie from the looks of it. Kristie gets the next 1on1. It is NOT Fiji or an exotic date.
- GD is the horseback riding date.

At this point Ep 9 will conclude all of the s/caps we have from the season preview. There is nothing post Ep 9 in the season promo/previews.

AllAboutLove wrote:Ep 8: Amanda left

Preview for Ep 9:
- The remaining 8 girls now travel
- SD is the waterfall date. Waterfall girl is Kristie from the looks of it. Kristie gets the next 1on1. It is NOT Fiji or an exotic date.
- GD is the horseback riding date.

At this point Ep 9 will conclude all of the s/caps we have from the season preview. There is nothing post Ep 9 in the season promo/previews.

Waterfall already sleuthed upthread as Omanawa Falls in Tauranga, NZ.

Thanks Kapiti Haven't had a chance to look yet. What did you think of Ep 8?

Wait a minute! I am reading this now... you have insider info?! That sounds exactly like what I saw posted on FB (Matilda on horse) and then reaffirmed by Kiwi friends. Is it true? Is the cat really out the bag? Was Matilda at Xfactor?

Kapiti wrote:My vote is for a 1 on 1 date with Kristie in episode 9 at the waterfall at Tauranga. The body shape and the behaviour (pushing Art on the rocks) seems to match imo. Matilda seems too courteous to do that and Dani does look a little slimmer than the waterfall girl imo.
HEA- I like Dani too! She is so fun to watch.

Great sleuthing!! Did you hear something about TGA that made you think to look there to match the waterfall? And defintely agree with pushing Art... seems odd to do.

After watching Ep 8, we see Matilda in a bikini at the pool and she is definitely not the waterfall girl based on her body. She is MUCH slimmer than waterfall girl and so yes, definitely seems to be Kristie. Too funny because I had posted in Kristie's thread that I thought it was her in Bali .

Alysha is really coming in as F2 or F1. Again, the only reason I would say no way to F1 is because she doesn't have an intro video. And I don't believe that the F1 would not get an intro video because this is the first season ever for NZ.

  I am a bit confused.... If Kristie gets the SD, why is she shown on the horseback riding date? Is this for Ep 10? Maybe she gets both??

double post

AllAboutLove wrote:

Kapiti wrote:Yay! Lots of opposing views and hearty debate! I'll add my 2c.
AAL I think your confidence in Matilda might come more from insider knowledge & post show sleuthing about her being the F1 rather than what we've seen so far with the edit. You mentioned earlier that you've contacted a few people in Auckland and that the general consensus is that everybody there knows its Art and Matilda at the end? On the Bach NZ Facebook page I noticed a comment last night that said they knew who the winner was but didn't want to get the person in trouble or something like that. Lots of people asked and they were PM'ing those people the answer. However after being hassled lots they eventually said publicly that it was Matilda. That comment and all the replies have now been deleted (I feel it's more likely to have been deleted by the page admin) yet other comments just saying things like 'Dani wins' and stuff like that are still there. I found that pretty suspicious.
I feel like because you know, you now feel confident to look harder at the show and try to give us the love story that the edit and producers haven't yet shown clearly. You also mentioned that Matilda is now friends with one of Arts close friends, which I think is another good sign for her being F1.
That being said, I can totally agree with HEA and Emusha that as far as the show goes, they are not showing us any kind of connection with those two yet. He's smiling at lots of people, he's physically intimate with 2, almost 3 of the women (no Matilda yet) and I feel like we only get the tiniest glimpse of what happens at the cocktail parties /one-on-one dates and how deep the conversations go. They've had 7 cocktail parties so far and I'm sure that lots of topics would've been covered with different girls. I'm sure normal things like 'what music do you like' 'what's your family like' 'do you want kids' 'where do you go for holidays' etc have been covered but not shown. So I don't agree that the fact that the lake house was brought up on Matilda's first date is significant. If Matilda is F1, I don't think he knows it yet at this stage of the show. If he was 100% on Matilda, I doubt he would be trying to initiate kisses with Alysha or continuing to kiss Dani. If Matilda is F1, I think the connection must start to develop and strengthen from here on out and hopefully on her next date.

Lol. I wish I could claim I knew she won. That would make my life a lot less stressful!!! Until I see something concrete completely then it is easy to say I am filtering my view through the lens of rumors or what I only reached out to find out (the same rumors you saw) if there was truth to it. This was THIS week. I have been sleuthing for 4 weeks,

Question: do you believe the rumors? It sounds like you know something... spill! hehe. You have been quiet on here lately...  

Just to provide some clarification. If you got to my first post on this thread I said I believed that Matilda was F1 the minute she got the promo (the episodes hadn't even aired yet). It was just a hunch based on this being NZ first year doing the bachelor. I was not alone. Everyone was saying she was F1 at that moment on this board.

Next, after watching Art's M&G - I was bloooooown away by how Art responded to Matilda. I posted tons of s/caps in Matilda's thread on just this. You can search.

Then, after Poppy's date and even Matilda's date, I was a bit confused. There didn't seem to be as much focus anymore on Matilda and Art didn't have that same reaction he had from the first episode.

So I started sleuthing everyone's social media after I believe IIRC Kapiti said that Art had like a photo of Alysha's.

I only THEN posted that I thought Alysha may be F1 because TBNZ IG account was following her and Art only and that Art had ONLY liked Alysha's post. Also at the time we had no idea of the timeline of shooting. Alysha's SM activity was later than Matilda's so my first thought that she was F1 was not adding up if shooting ended in March and SM activity was valid.

So I was pretty much done at that point and gave up thinking, hey, maybe TBNZ didn't have a more obvious edit from the first show and maybe my hunch that Art fell for Matilda first episode was incorrect. I began to get on the bandwagon that SM activity was more important than what I was seeing on the screen. And yes, SEEing on the screen. I SEE Art look at Matilda differently.

The ONLY time I questioned anything was based on SM activity, NOT based on the edit. I don't believe at all that 1st season of TBNZ they would hide the F1 from the beginning or not have an intro video. Makes no sense, imo given that Mike said this is a love story. Art was only blown away with Matilda that first episode.

So, as to *insider info* I have none. I have what was posted on numerous SM accounts, FB for all the girls, and TBNZ groups. I saw that people were saying that Matilda won and yes, I may be naive, but I am going back to what I saw with that M&G. I only tried to verify these SM rumors this week but no one I know *knows* but I strongly believe that even if they don't know, the rumors are true based on what I see with Art from the first episode, his talking to Matilda about his lake house. If anything, your saying I have insider info is making me believe that you know the ending. That the rumors are true.  

Again, I posted those s/caps of Art and his reaction to her waaaaay before I was thinking Alysha may be F1. At this moment, I think she is F2.

So, hope this provides clarity. Just doing a search for my posts in the threads and one will see that is the trajectory of my thoughts.

If something changes, it changes. And I will change with it.

But I am going by what I see so far ON SCREEN and SM activity and I see Dani leading the pack right now and thought she may be F1 but when I saw that TWITTER exchange with Art, I no longer saw her as F1 at all, in any way. Neither does she have an intro video.

And yes, I do believe the F1 will get an intro video for the first season ever of TB in NZ. Alysha and Dani don't have one. Matilda also narrates a lot. She says she has genuine feelings, etc.

I could go on and on, but this is what I see so far. I felt this way about Sam and look how that still turned out, even though she was F1....

i enjoy your thorough explanation AAL, and now i do understand the trajectory of your thoughts from the very beginning..sorry i thought you predicted Alysha as the F1 right from the get-go

ITA with your points. As always, IMO edit could be leading/clue-ing OR misleading. ( i fell into the latter category a couple of times on US show   )

However, given the fact that this is the 1st show of TBNZ, i guess for me, i have a good prejudice that the edits are leading us to the actual outcome, by the 'classic' typical edit for the F1.

I have been pleading my case for M as the F1 as discussed on sleuthing thread and Matilda's thread. I have more from epis. 7 (and possibly 8) which i'll share later. One thing that stood out to me with regard to the 'classic F1' edit is the concern/thoughtfulness of the F1 toward the lead's feeling /well-being in the journey. I know C Siegfried and Josh had gotten this kind of edit. (I followed Ette way more closely than Bach US..but if im not mistaken Catherine somehow got this edit too(?) SCMIIW). In this regards,
> Matilda was heard with her VOs concerning 'crazy day for Art'during Danielle removed herself on Epis.3 RC
> i just had a chance to follow 1/3 of last episode 8. In the RC drama between Alysha and Chrystal ,M was seen in a PI (?) concerning Art's feeling given that situation. -- may need to check back later whether it was a PI or actually VO. btw, i am firm in Alysha as the NON-F1 after this drama . My order as for now :
F1. Matilda : for all mentioned reasons.
F2. Alysha :yes..many edit tid bits i found leading me to think she is the F2. Im guessing her storyline as the Dark Horse F2.
F3 Dani
F4. Poppy

Kapiti, great work on the water fall!

mercieme..i concur your say . To me, the fact that Dani spotted in Fiji while the show airing , and her SM's 'debacles' are more in favor of her not being the F1. Again, given the fact that this is the first season, i have a good feeling the term ruse/hed rerring is yet to be known on this show.

actually i have no horse in the race..im good with whomever Art ends up with..as long as its not Chrystal :P

Hey Mura  
I predicted Matilda as F1 from the get go but so did almost everyone else   . I even stated that this is not something unique and no way a sign I know anything or have some great skills at figuring this stuff out because everyone was predicting she was F1 from the first picture released of her. People that haven't even watched predict it. And I think that this is because she, imo, just LOOKS like F1 for Art. It just seems like a fit.


>> I agree with you about the similarities to TB Aussie S1.  :Nod:  Remember Ali hurt herself? Well this time, Matilda hurts herself falling off the horse. That rumor was not just a rumor it has now been proven true and we see Matilda holding her wrist in the Ep 9 preview. So, for me, the rumors that she is F1 are not just rumors. 

>> I believe Matilda is F1 and I see that Art fell for her day one. He was giddy when he met her. 

>> ... For those that doubt this... go look at Matilda's thread and the s/caps of Art when he met Matilda out the limohttps://www.bachandbachettefans.net/t2871-bachelor-new-zealand-matilda#773235. The guy was giddy with glee. Art was grinning away and he does it AGAIN in Ep 8 on the group date when Matilda does her Haiku. That's not edit, that's not rumors, that's not filter, that is s/caps and one thing I have learned from sleuthing on this board is that, in hindsight, s/caps tell the story. Always. 

Some to compare Ep 1 to Ep 8: Art's face lights up around M (2nd s/cap he is thanking God -- his words he said in an interview)...






>> I see Art in love and in love with Matilda. I saw him begin to fall the day he met her but also see him not proposing just like Tim did with Anna. And like you, I see Matilda as F1 but I am sure they will edit it to make it look like she is on the verge of going home... (and see Alysha as F2)

>> It also makes sense now why M is not waterfall girl (other than she doesn't look it now that I watched Ep 8). She hurts her wrist. Then likely she will be in a cast during the show... Awwww!!! That will bring out the protective side of Art that will be lovely to see! If he really fell in love with her first episode we will see this in how he reacts to her falling off that horse!!

Muraski1393 wrote:One thing that stood out to me with regard to the 'classic F1' edit is the concern/thoughtfulness of the F1 toward the lead's feeling /well-being in the journey. I know C Siegfried and Josh had gotten this kind of edit. (I followed Ette way more closely than Bach US..but if im not mistaken Catherine somehow got this edit too(?) SCMIIW).

IA. I posted the exact thing about Art when he gave Matilda that rose in Ep 6 and she said "that's stressful" and he said "I know". He was worried about how she would feel about having to wait for a rose. In Ep 8, Poppy discusses with Art how getting a rose near last in Ep 7 made her feel terrible about herself. Again, this shows me that Art realizes this and has his hands tied because of producers. It makes sense then, after Poppy tells him this, that Matilda gets the group date rose (that Poppy is on no less -- a sign right there of who Art puts first in his mind). I think Art wanted to give Matilda that rose and planned for her to be on that group date so that he didn't have to put her through a RC getting a rose near the end and not have to worry at all about it. Alysha got the rose first at RC. The F2.

---------------------------------------
Regarding Ep 9 next week: SD with Kristie waterfall, and then group date with Kristie as well? All the girls horse back riding? In regards to Matilda.... see this Facebook comment by just one person on TBNZ fb page

Berta Leighton
Today at 4:47am
Poor Matilda breaks her arm hope she stays in the competition <3

Felicity Buche I saw Matilda on 25th March at Greenlane Medical Clinic with her arm all bandaged up. She is a natural beauty with no makeup, and was very polite to the medical staff.
Like · Reply · 27 mins

Berta Leighton Shes always been my fave through from the start naturally beautiful and the type of women a man would want to take home to meet mum. Next to that is poppy, alysha and natalie. I just really hope for the sake of 'true love' art sees it instead of going for ratings. Personally I think Art and Dani have a strong connection just dont see her settling down anytime soon where as for the like Matilda comes off wife material vibe
Like · Reply · 10 mins

https://www.facebook.com/TheBachelorNZ/posts/1582687598637904
This comment among many has been posted on TBNZ FB page and what I was referring to concerning rumours and matching them up with the photo of Matilda in an arm cast. To me, these rumours only support what I saw the first episode M&G between Art and Matilda. I have used them to back up that first moment. Not the other way around.

>> Notice the person's response? Sooo many people seeing Matilda as wife-material and a natural beauty.

It is not even sleuthing really. She just has that something about her that makes her look F1 and Art's reaction to her out of the limo and when he gave her the FIR is what causes so many people (including myself) to just see it with them two.

Especially after watching Episode 8.

Art and Matilda are just soooooo fun around each other (something he emphasized his ideal woman is) and Matilda even talked to him again at cocktail party after getting a group date rose and everyone said CONFIDENT. Matilda is confident. She's the only one not intimidated by Chrystal at all. She proved it.

For me, everything seems to be revealed in the season preview, even though we didn't see it. The preview only showed up until Ep9/10 the waterfall date and the horseback riding date. This is when Matilda literally gets hurt. The end of the preview? Listen to whose voices are talking at the end of the preview: Art and Matilda. Art says, "Will you accept this rose" and Matilda says "I definitely will". 

After watching episode it was the beginning of the end! Matilda is finally getting her love edit! I think poppy is fading. I believe that of she kissed him it might have sparked something to get her out of the friend zone. Nat is coming on strong! She is most deff a dark horse for top 4. What a great episode!