Re: Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Episode - 11 - LCD - FRC - ATFR #3 *Spoilers - Sleuthing*- Discussion

IrishGal wrote:

sfrank wrote:

Well, I actually found that while they got a lot of skepticism....the majority of people were supportive of Des and Chris because they could see how much he adored her.
I know this because as a Brooks fan I was extremely frustrated that more people weren't on my side about how wrong it was for her to accept Chris' proposal after the break up with Brooks. But looking back I think what helped is that at the ATFR they were clearly into each other and when Brooks came out, it was obvious she was over him.  

Not the case from what I saw from Chris on Monday night....if anything more people said it was AFTR that showed them that Chris was not over Becca and I agree.

OMG!  This shows how out of touch I am...I had no clue Brooks came out.  Guess it all worked out right in the end, then.  It usually does.  Happy for all of them.

IrishGal--

lurker11 wrote:

mindless wrote:Eh, I watched that Chris and Witney rehearsal video posted in the fan thread and they were having way too much fun. I don't mean there's anything between, not at all, she's still a kid. It just showed that he's a big kid too and I haven't seen that side of him around Whitney. Of course they may be like that in private, but there's just such a massive difference between the rigid and awkward Chris I saw in all the interviews yesterday and the goofy giggling jokester I saw in that rehearsal today. And when Witney brought up watching the finale and how great it must be to have the secret out, he couldn't wait to change the subject. Just mentioned flying around for interviews yesterday. Something's definitely off IMO.

idk if you're a DWTS fan... but that rehearsal video was eerily similar to Witney's with Alfonso, her partner last season who is happily married with an expectant wife.  That's just how her rehearsals go. Comparing two people sitting and stretching and laughing while reading twitter and two people dressed up, standing in an ABC media room, answering the same relationship questions over and over isn't really a real comparison, IMO.

Yes, I know how these rehearsal videos are and like I said, I don't think there's anything between Chris and Witney, not at all. It's just that whenever someone notes Chris and Whitney acting oddly serious and unaffectionate in their interviews, it's chalked up to them being such a mature couple. I don't find Chris to be very mature however. He didn't even realise Mackenzie was 21 until someone told him. And my point was that it seemed like he didn't want to discuss Whitney at all. Not that I was expecting him to get into detail, but his demeanor changed when the Bachelor finale was brought up and not in good way. JMOAA.

^ Maybe his demeanor changed because he's already answered the same questions about the finale and his relationship with Whitney 100 times in the two days following the finale.

I've been reading and rereading this post since shortly after it was made, trying to think if there's anything in it I don't agree with, and I have always come up with nada - there's nothing here that I don't agree with.

Sprite wrote:To me it was crystal clear that Becca was not into Chris...not in any way, shape or form. She liked him well enough and in the bubble said all the things that needed to be said, but no way was she ever going to end up with Chris.

Totally the way I see it as well.

Sprite wrote:Whitney came in well prepared. She liked the Chris she saw on Andi's season. She knew JS who no doubt prepared her on how things work behind the scenes. Not that she didn't already know as she is a long time fan and it is all out there in cyber land...and she has admitted that she is a planner. Nothing wrong with that. I also like to have all my ducks in a row. Just because she was prepared does not mean that she wasn't genuine. She said that he lived up to her expectations and if he hadn't, well then she would have had an adventure.

I always felt as I watched Whitney that Whitney had learned - well - from Catherine. There's a lot they have in common in why they came on the show, how they interacted with the rest of the girls and how they courted the guy they came on to meet.

Sprite wrote:Chris is a farmer....in case you missed it. He farms for a living. He is not a public speaker. I think that was pretty clear. The gift of gab is not his strong suit. He is practical and self aware and clearly no fool based on his business acumen. He knew what he wanted going in and unlike many, he actually picked someone who matched what he wanted. Shocking! Being a farmer does not necessarily foster your romantic side. Farmers need to be practical. He picked what was best for him...not what the audience thinks is best for him. He was there. He lived it....the unedited version.

I think this is what - for me - made this season unusual. All too often a lead seems to pick based on their emotions, and I think this is all too often why the relationships don't work out in the end. IMHO Chris did it differently; each decision about who to keep and who to let go was based on some unemotional logic about how that person did or didn't fit into not only what he wants but what his life has to offer to someone else. This maybe slightly unromantic if you want every lead to be trying to find their soulmate but I think a relationship - no matter where it's formed - has a better chance of working if someone matches up what they want with what someone else can give and if what they have to give matches up with what someone else wants. One-sided relationships don't work very well IMO (for sure mine never did)

Sprite wrote:Admittedly, watching last night was sometimes uncomfortable. I wish Chris was more articulate on the show, but then I re-watched the proposal...alone, on it's own merits, without all the scripted filler that was edited beforehand to confuse....and I watched a bunch of their post show interviews. Upon second viewing of the proposal I saw the genuine, sweet emotion. As I watched the interviews, I noticed that they seemed to be getting more comfortable with each other and opening up. And the more I listened to them, the more I saw a mature couple taking things seriously and planning for their future. No, they were not all over each other as some others have been, but they seemed very grounded and very respectful and caring about each other. Will they make it? We will all have to wait and see, but based on what I have been seeing it makes me very hopeful. That and the fact that apparently they are practicing baby making every chance they get!

I think the thing that turned the corner for me with regard to the bolded was when I read that on the hometown (we would call this the MTP date) with Chris' family, Whitney and Chris' mother talked about what role Mrs. Soules plays in the family business and what role Whitney could play. Of course that doesn't fit the narrative the show was trying to sell (that Chris was conflicted to the last moment and that his parents were unsure how Chris would decide). Later I read where Chris actually had a role in mind in the business that would play to Whitney's strengths, counteract Chris' own weaknesses and benefit the business so this seems to have been given a fair amount of thought - as planning for the future should get. In the interviews I found them realistic about both their short-term future (in LA for DWTS) as well as their longer-term future and I was especially impressed that Whitney has adjusted her job so that she can work remotely which gives her the ability to work from Iowa instead of having to physically be in Chicago. Like you Sprite, I have no certainty if they will or won't make it but I think they are doing the important things necessary to succeed as a couple. I think that whatever the truth about anything that happened on the show is has been shared between the only two people who count - Chris and Whitney and from what I've seen, they have both been honest and genuine with each other.

Longhornfan wrote:

albean99 wrote:

sfrank wrote:

I think you missed my point because ^^^^ comments was the latter piece in a larger commentary I wrote (this is missing the first paragraph)

The poster was saying that Chris' struggle was manufactured by TPTB and he is still under contract to say that he had feelings for Becca and didn't decide until shortly before the FRC (per an interview he gave yesterday here: http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/the-bachelor-star-chris-soules-interview-i-still-question-how-whitney-bischoff-will-adapt-in-iowa-17597.php)

My point was that Chris' contract requires that he show up and make appearences on behalf of the show.
It does not require him to keep telling people he didn't decide until shortly before the FRC that it was going to be Whitney, or to say that he told his family certain things about his feelings for Becca that made them think he would pick her.  And post show continue to vigioursly defend his feelings and the connection he had with Becca when asked if it was just "the chase".

I was pointing that CH is saying the exact opposite and its strange to have the lead and host saying two things that are completely opposite. Chris S. could easily downplay his feelings or use the outs he has been giving him to make the woman at his side, his fiancé, feel special. He's not. He saying these things because it's the truth, IMO.

CH lies to us constantly but now we believe  his word is gossip? No. He does what is best for himself and the show. Period. The show benefits from the happy ending and People Magazine fairytale. That is my point.

Their contract is pretty tight and I think people would be surprised if we were able to read them. I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to say they were told to lead someone on. I remember way back in Meredith's season when Matthew her f2 asked her why she said she'd be honored if he gave her a ring (don't know the wording) and she just mumbled something about the show but never really answered. Clearly she couldn't say the truth which was she was forced to lead him on. She was gaga about Ian from the 3rd epi and didn't even want to go on the FD with Matt after Ian's. He had to talk her out of it. Interestingly Ian did an interview in Brazil post show where he was able to give out some secrets.

They also have to tell their family that they're confused. It's not just Chris. I'm sure the family are not allowed to tell us they were coached in any way because they're all under contract too.

I keep harping on this but it's all subjective what we believe and we're not likely to change anyone's opinion. It's my hope that sometime in the near future people can move on and hope for good things for their favorites. :Nod:

I do remember someone posting a copy of one of the older contracts on this site, some years back, and I have seen some of the very same things reoccur on each and every season, so I am not surprised by a lot that happens up to and including the FRC.  An example would be how the producers will drive the rejected contestants around for hours afterwards, most notably the F2, and will ply them with alcohol in order to get them to cry and give them some good soundbites for the edit.

I guess that what I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around is that Becca was given a script which included leading Chris on the whole time, just so that she could make it to the F2 position.  This seems so out of character with the Becca that I saw on the show.  Because it appeared to me that she refused to lie to Chris and tried to be as honest as possible with him, without giving him any false hope.

I never thought that Becca would have been Chris' choice at the end, and IMO, when she told Chris that her biggest fear was moving to his farm in Iowa and realizing later that it was not going to work out for her.  At that very moment I saw a compassionate person who would never want to lead Chris on and end up breaking his heart.  And, I saw the moment of clarity that Chris kept saying he needed.  He knew then and there that it was never going to work with Becca.  That was his clarity.

I actually think that Becca most likely got sucked into the bachelor bubble, like so many seem to do each and every year.  For example, I never ever believed that Jade would have wanted to move to Iowa.  So, was all that scripted too, or did she fall prey to the bubble?  Because, at the WTA, I felt like she was more upset with what Chris wrote in his blogs, regarding viewing her nude pictures and discussing her hometown visit, then her actually being eliminated at the F4.  Heck, I think they all fell victim to that bubble effect.  Some, like Whitney, had already entered into it prior to stepping out of the limo.

So, in conclusion.  I surmise that Becca probably "felt" like she was falling in love with Chris, within the confines of the bachelor bubble, but she knew when she showed up at the FRC what was going to happen.  And, yes, she probably felt some sense of relief.  That would account for the lack of tears and her calm demeanor.  I don't think, given Becca's inexperience, a long distance dating arrangement would have worked out either.  I liked how Becca seemed to stay true to herself throughout the whole process.  She is the winner in my book.

I agree that Becca was caught in the bachelor bubble but IMO it was reversed , Chris was given the script to lead Becca on the whole time.  TPTB decide if they want a "villian" brought to the end or the "sweet" one. The lead follows the storyboard because that's what they sign up for. It's just how this show works. Whitney was always his F1 he was never conflicted . As far as the PDA post show, I don't think Chris is the type to show much in the way of PDA, he isn't comfortable with it. I remember tweeting to Fleiss when they announced Chris as the Bachelor that they should think about getting Josh to teach Chris PDA 101. because I thought he was so blah in that department when I watched him with Andi. He couldn't show to much PDA with Whitney because it would have been to obvious so he stepped it up with Becca because he needed to in order to raise the "doubt" for the shows storyboard. He did a good job just as TPTB needed him to do and it was easier for him to do because Becca IS so sweet and beautiful , I don't know that any guy would have a hard time hugging and kissing her. JMHO

Mommyof1 wrote:AFTR is live and not edited.  That to me is the bigger picture.  Heck, I felt more warm and fuzzies from Jake and Vienna.    In watching MM's podcast with the Bach girls, Ashley S., who was at AFTR, said she felt that Chris was still feeling the same way as he did when he said goodbye to Becca at the FRC.  All of the girls said that if Becca would have been "in love" with Chris, the ending would have been very different.

And when Whitney was asked who her least favorite girl in the house was on Kelly and Michael -she chose not to answer. And that is just one of the differences between her and the others IMO

KB_Mom wrote:^ Maybe his demeanor changed because he's already answered the same questions about the finale and his relationship with Whitney 100 times in the two days following the finale.

I agree

GuardianAngel wrote:I like that she isn't all over SM. They are mature adults that don't need to be kissy facing posing and justifying their relationship.

IMO SM has become a indicator of people's personalities. If they aren't on SM then something must be wrong.

I have a personal facebook which I never log into anymore. I only had less than 100 friends, however I got tired of questioning why I didn't "like" their pic they posted or the recipe they posted. I felt I had an "obligation" to like my friends/familiy's posts even if I didn't. Now I get questioned why am I never on F/book.

Perhaps Whitney doesn't want to read any negative SM content. It appears she has no problem staying away from it. Unlike others who are addicted to it, or other leads/contestants that continuously responded to the negativity only making the situation worse.

I've always said, if the final couple are secure in their relationship, they don't need to justify anything to anyone. I think maybe this is the stance that Whitney is taking. She's focused on her relationship and making it work. It appears he will let her make most of the decisions, which IMO he welcomes.

I couldn't agree more

Jolena wrote:

KB_Mom wrote:^ Maybe his demeanor changed because he's already answered the same questions about the finale and his relationship with Whitney 100 times in the two days following the finale.

I agree

Yup me too how many times can you say it over & over again how you really feel about someone you chose!!

Mommyof1 wrote:I would think Whitney would want to shout from the rooftops about how happy she is on SM, but sadly, she is super quiet.  Something is truly off with these two.  I truly believe they have a long, hard road ahead of them and Chris' decision to do DWTS probably wasn't the smartest move.  Even Jillian said in MM's podcast that their lives just aren't typical right now.  We shall see if it lasts.  I have a feeling Farmer Chris will be going on match.com to find a wife in the future.  Nothing wrong with that though since I met my DH through an online dating site.  

The last thing I do when something is going on in my life is shout it on SM.
Neither Chris nor Whitney embraced SM prior to the show, so I would expect the same behavior following it.
There is a population that believe sm is for those seeking public eye in some way, shape or form and want little to nothing to do with it other than post pictures of babies and pets.
This is my opinion.
Whether the couple makes it or not is up to them like any other.

KB_Mom wrote:^ Maybe his demeanor changed because he's already answered the same questions about the finale and his relationship with Whitney 100 times in the two days following the finale.

JMO, but pre-finale, Chris was asked the same questions over and over again (How did you feel about Kelsey's panic attack? Do you care that Becca is a virgin? Should Britt or Kaitlyn be Bachelorette) on all of the talk shows he did and I never saw him like this. And, I have to say, I watched the "how well do you know each other" People video they did and they looked happy and seemed to have a really easygoing relationship in it. I haven't seen that since. It's possible that it's just tiredness, but I don't think so. Something seems to have happened.

Lucas15 wrote:I've been reading and rereading this post since shortly after it was made, trying to think if there's anything in it I don't agree with, and I have always come up with nada - there's nothing here that I don't agree with.

Sprite wrote:To me it was crystal clear that Becca was not into Chris...not in any way, shape or form. She liked him well enough and in the bubble said all the things that needed to be said, but no way was she ever going to end up with Chris.

Totally the way I see it as well.

Sprite wrote:Whitney came in well prepared. She liked the Chris she saw on Andi's season. She knew JS who no doubt prepared her on how things work behind the scenes. Not that she didn't already know as she is a long time fan and it is all out there in cyber land...and she has admitted that she is a planner. Nothing wrong with that. I also like to have all my ducks in a row. Just because she was prepared does not mean that she wasn't genuine. She said that he lived up to her expectations and if he hadn't, well then she would have had an adventure.

I always felt as I watched Whitney that Whitney had learned - well - from Catherine. There's a lot they have in common in why they came on the show, how they interacted with the rest of the girls and how they courted the guy they came on to meet.

Sprite wrote:Chris is a farmer....in case you missed it. He farms for a living. He is not a public speaker. I think that was pretty clear. The gift of gab is not his strong suit. He is practical and self aware and clearly no fool based on his business acumen. He knew what he wanted going in and unlike many, he actually picked someone who matched what he wanted. Shocking! Being a farmer does not necessarily foster your romantic side. Farmers need to be practical. He picked what was best for him...not what the audience thinks is best for him. He was there. He lived it....the unedited version.

I think this is what - for me - made this season unusual. All too often a lead seems to pick based on their emotions, and I think this is all too often why the relationships don't work out in the end. IMHO Chris did it differently; each decision about who to keep and who to let go was based on some unemotional logic about how that person did or didn't fit into not only what he wants but what his life has to offer to someone else. This maybe slightly unromantic if you want every lead to be trying to find their soulmate but I think a relationship - no matter where it's formed - has a better chance of working if someone matches up what they want with what someone else can give and if what they have to give matches up with what someone else wants. One-sided relationships don't work very well IMO (for sure mine never did)

Sprite wrote:Admittedly, watching last night was sometimes uncomfortable. I wish Chris was more articulate on the show, but then I re-watched the proposal...alone, on it's own merits, without all the scripted filler that was edited beforehand to confuse....and I watched a bunch of their post show interviews. Upon second viewing of the proposal I saw the genuine, sweet emotion. As I watched the interviews, I noticed that they seemed to be getting more comfortable with each other and opening up. And the more I listened to them, the more I saw a mature couple taking things seriously and planning for their future. No, they were not all over each other as some others have been, but they seemed very grounded and very respectful and caring about each other. Will they make it? We will all have to wait and see, but based on what I have been seeing it makes me very hopeful. That and the fact that apparently they are practicing baby making every chance they get!

I think the thing that turned the corner for me with regard to the bolded was when I read that on the hometown (we would call this the MTP date) with Chris' family, Whitney and Chris' mother talked about what role Mrs. Soules plays in the family business and what role Whitney could play. Of course that doesn't fit the narrative the show was trying to sell (that Chris was conflicted to the last moment and that his parents were unsure how Chris would decide). Later I read where Chris actually had a role in mind in the business that would play to Whitney's strengths, counteract Chris' own weaknesses and benefit the business so this seems to have been given a fair amount of thought - as planning for the future should get. In the interviews I found them realistic about both their short-term future (in LA for DWTS) as well as their longer-term future and I was especially impressed that Whitney has adjusted her job so that she can work remotely which gives her the ability to work from Iowa instead of having to physically be in Chicago. Like you Sprite, I have no certainty if they will or won't make it but I think they are doing the important things necessary to succeed as a couple. I think that whatever the truth about anything that happened on the show is has been shared between the only two people who count - Chris and Whitney and from what I've seen, they have both been honest and genuine with each other.

Lucas, I was not aware that Chris saw a role in the family business for Whitney. That's wonderful. I think it will make the transition much easier if she feels like a valued part of the family and the business.