Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Episode - 11 - LCD - FRC - ATFR #2 *Spoilers - Sleuthing*- Discussion

Another question with no answer. I can't help but wonder why Chris would want to do DWTS. This song comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRgL92K5zuE. Clearly he is not hurting financially and he really doesn't need to be on the farm. I assume the show houses them for the duration of their stay so I guess why not. I don't know his dancing skills but given the fans voting he will probably make it at least a few weeks. Maybe he just wants to soak up the opportunity while he can. I must say we have known it for a while but it was not what I would have anticipated going into the season.

George1218 wrote:I hope Chris and Whitney are really in love and make it.  I really like both of them.  I really and truly saw something (IMHO) between Chris and Becca that was sincere and genuine that Chris didn't have with anyone else.  To me, the editors didn't do Chris or Whitney any favors with their edits all season because, to me, it seemed like Chris was really, really in love with Becca.  To me, it seemed like they really had a special connection that Chris, in the end, threw away because Becca couldn't give him a guarantee of marriage and children.  Becca told him that although she didn't know anything else for sure, she was positive that she wanted him and didn't want to lose him.  That wasn't enough for him.  If he is really the type of person who would throw away such a special, genuine connection for someone else who (to me) he didn't seem to have nearly as special or deep connection with because she was "all in" and ready to get married and start popping out babies ASAP then Becca is better off without him.  I REALLY thought better of Chris.

I am sure that Chris is really a good guy and truly in love with Whitney and that Becca really wasn't as deeply in love with Chris as is seemed (even if she couldn't admit it to herself).  The editors REALLY did no one any favors this season.  I am so disappointed, all season long I REALLY, REALLY thought (100%) that I was seeing a real love story developing with Chris and Becca.  I thought that, even when Becca came first at the end, Chris would say something like "this is crazy, I love you and can't let you go! What was I thinking? We will figure things out together."

I feel very bad for Whitney because the way it was edited (IMO) it shows her being the one Chris settled for because he just couldn't let himself take that ultimate risk on
Becca, the one he truly loved and wanted.  To me, even at the ATFR, it seemed like Chris was wondering if he did the right thing.

I'm sorry to ramble, but I am just so horribly disappointed.  I have no interest in watching TB at all in the near future.  I may drop in here to say hi to everyone, but i am just so, so disappointed!!

That is exactly what I felt during season and feeling right now.
Even Chris parents were surprised and his dad even said Becca was the one Chris wanted.
That's very telling !

If it's of any consolation, you are not the only one feeling very disappointed with this season.

1 thing about Chris' financial situation. Yes he is well off. BUT he most likely isn't cash rich. His money is in 2.5+ million in land and millions in farm equipment. DWTS is liquid money. Very smart IMO

bleuberry wrote:Speaking of the short LCD for Becca, have they ever edited an f2s dates to be so incredibly short before? So strange, this is like the second or third time they've shown little of what I assume was a full date for them.

I think they had to or it would have undermined that entire redemption edit for Chris with Whitney as F1. People forget that Becca's LCD was filmed after Whitney's.
Which begs the question if he was really so sure why was he desperately trying to win over Becca still? And he was crying in his PI after.
Even his father said that he wanted Becca in conversation we didn't see so I'm not sure why people want to deny it.

sfrank wrote:Yikes! Not a good look, Chris, when you have revert back to your scripted show lines when Lara Spencer asks what you liked about your new fiancé. "I mean not only is she beautiful, she's talented....and someone that I" (he almost says feel) then quickly "I could see spending the rest of my life with". Lol. And he confirmed his family was why he made the decision I the end.

I want to give Chris the benefit of doubt but it is so hard when I see him in interviews. His proposal was the least emotional I have ever seen. I wonder how many times they yelled "cut?" Hehe He does nothing for me but Whit loves him. Because of this I wish them the best.

Chris needs to learn how to answer the questions that will be coming his way. I get the impression these two are struggling already.

murasaki1393 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:

bleuberry wrote:Speaking of the short LCD for Becca, have they ever edited an f2s dates to be so incredibly short before? So strange, this is like the second or third time they've shown little of what I assume was a full date for them.

I can not remember the above, happening in the past. It was commented on at the time by quite a few posters, too. It was probably done for many reasons. The easiest and best was it clued us in almost immediately she was not going to be the F1. Cutting that part out allowed for other film to be shown that TPTB wanted shown.
As far as the other dates, I think TPTB had Becca slated for this role F2 and a clean edit from day one. JMOAA.
I don't think it's a mistake that you don't have such vocal outrage or sides drawn etc for her rejection etc. She looked so totally cool with the outcome. How can you argue with that? She looked great day 1 after rejection.

Kasha, are you saying that TPTB had Whit also slated for her role as F1 and confident edit from day one too?.. Just curious. If so, for me there is no point to watch this silly show anymore...

Probably should not watch then.  I would miss you.  :Nod:
Just take your rose colored glasses off. I promise I will try to entertain you with diversions.
I have heard for many, many season that the night of the Meat and Geek the main cast person is aware of who the F4 will be and most likely the top 2. The others are there to fill in for drama and diversion, secondary plot lines.
I have heard from cast that have been approached by producers with certain "roles" to play. One cast person left immediately before the Meat & Geek began because he did not want this role. Others have stayed and been the season's villain, buddy etc.
Another sleuther had seen a photo of loose story boarding in a backdrop of a production FB photo years ago. Another sleuther had seen outlines for storyboarding of the next season while the current season was still airing! I know because I have seen these photos with my own eyes. Others here have, too.
Was Whitney slated to be F1? I can not say that. But let's look at how on paper Josh was for Andi. Let's look how on paper Whit was for Chris. So I do think there is a small amount of cast chosen to be perfect on paper for the main. Maybe at times there is a 6 degree of separation between the main and the F1 prior to filiming? Maybe even less than 6 degrees.
When Shayne was chosen for Matt--that was not left to chance.

sfrank wrote:

bleuberry wrote:Speaking of the short LCD for Becca, have they ever edited an f2s dates to be so incredibly short before? So strange, this is like the second or third time they've shown little of what I assume was a full date for them.

I think they had to or it would have undermined that entire redemption edit for Chris with Whitney as F1. People forget that Becca's LCD was filmed after Whitney's.
Which begs the question if he was really so sure why was he desperately trying to win over Becca still? And he was crying in his PI after.
Even his father said that he wanted Becca in conversation we didn't see so I'm not sure why people want to deny it.  

When it comes to this show, facts don't matter.

Kashathediva wrote:

hmbach wrote:Thats what I don't get. If they were really so in love then why not show us more of that? What I saw with her edit was she was obsessed with being married and Chris was the guy that was there looking to get married. I really wish for Ws sake they would have showed us more of their real love story.  I saw a man who liked her and had fun with her but he seemed always to be on the verge of drunk when he was with her. JMO.

This show is not about a love story no matter how many viewers would like to think unicorns and rainbows. This is not my opinion. This is out of the Michael Fleiss' own mouth. For anyone who believes otherwise, please do a search. He has likened it as a social dating experiment.  
There is a storyline developed for the season. The editors follow the storyline or will be out of a job. So who knows why certain things are show or not.
But to simply say ___________girl was this or that and this girl was the opposite, boils hours and hours of filming that we see minutes of into a mold that does not fit. It may fit our plan, but our plan is not the producer's plan.
What shows us about the couple is what happens ATFR.  Real life tests the relationship. Will it work, are they in love?  Time will tell.

The show is nothing but cameras and exotic dates... and in Jason/Molly's words, barely 24 hours together before FRC. All the lead must do is "pick somebody" and see what happens afterward. We can all chew out Chris and Whitney for not being as "gooey" as, say, Des/Prince Siegfried or Ashley./JP, but the end result can't be determined until a couple months have past.

In the olden days, this show would give us "signs" of who the F1 will be in early episodes. Lately, they have been editing this more like The Amazing Race with no straight-to-the-finish storyline. Any missed airplane arrival or failed win in a close game competition upsets the "pecking order" of contestants and you never are sure who the "winner" is until the final act.

To explain this in more specific terms:

As much as some Whitney fans WANT Chris to be in love with her since the moment she stepped out of the limo, it is VERY rare that we have a season like that... even in reality without all of the edit lop and chop. Meredith's was one exception to the rule, since she was OBSESSED with Ian McKee to the point that all of her dates Lanny, Chad and Matt were total snoozefests. Remember all of her turtle-neck sweaters? How the handlers succeeded in convincing Matt into thinking cosmopolitan jet-set Meredith was all-so-eager to spend the rest of her life riding around in his pickup truck still remains one of the greatest brainwashing feats in the history of the franchise.

One reason I struggled so much with Whitney's edit is because so much of her dialogue sounded rehearsed and always "on"... and her conversations with Chris' friends and family sounded too much like job interviews for my comfort. Even the way she looked to the side before answering an important question looked odd. Both she and Kelsey used lines like "amazing storybook" and "beginning of my love story", so I could not help but question sometimes if she was more in love with the "win" than the end result.

However...

I have been wondering if all of this peculiar editing (which included many, MANY "frankenbytes" in her speeches) was done on purpose to add "reassurance" to a relationship that production was always unsure about.

Going by his body language and PI sessions, Chris did seem more emotionally invested in Becca, Kaitlyn and Jade (not so much Britt despite the editing) than Whitney. However all three ladies had "red flags". In Becca's case, it was simply that she was too slow in her decision-making and Neil Lane had a ring to hawk. If you re-watch the hometown dates, Kaitlyn's is the one boasting the most fondling and kissing coming from Chris' end, while the other three show a much more guarded and distant Chris. Nonetheless, it was blatantly obvious that Kaitlyn was NOT the one who would be visiting Mommy and Daddy regardless of her "pecking order" in terms of his emotional connections.

The single most important line from Whitney in the finale was (paraphrasing) the great importance of FAMILY APPROVAL. Back in episode 4, she discussed his sisters accordingly: "They are really going to be judging us and they should be, so I think that it could be a game changer."

Chris may be "in love" with any particular woman, but he will only grow "in love" (or at least try to post-show) with the woman who wins his family. (Again... although Becca also won his family, Neil Lane had a ring to hawk and she was way too slow.)

The only way to look at this show objectively is to listen to Mister Harrison. He thinks this couple has a chance, but he also thought Andi and Josh had a chance. Just throw the dice since every season is a crap-shoot that may or may not pan out.

In regards to the Double Bachelorette...

As much as I enjoyed Kaitlyn with Chris this season, I'm not THAT confident either she OR Britt will find "the one" in two months' time. The fact that both were chosen may not just be because Mister Harrison dreams every night about huge hair and maroon lipstick (again, the real love story that I was seeing on ATFR started the moment Britt stood on stage with Mister Harrison), but they needed two "experiments" this time around because they are clueless what will work.

sfrank wrote:

bleuberry wrote:Speaking of the short LCD for Becca, have they ever edited an f2s dates to be so incredibly short before? So strange, this is like the second or third time they've shown little of what I assume was a full date for them.

I think they had to or it would have undermined that entire redemption edit for Chris with Whitney as F1. People forget that Becca's LCD was filmed after Whitney's.
Which begs the question if he was really so sure why was he desperately trying to win over Becca still? And he was crying in his PI after.
Even his father said that he wanted Becca in conversation we didn't see so I'm not sure why people want to deny it.  

IMO it would've served the storyline (or truth if that's what you think) that Becca was really who he wanted, and who his family wanted, if they actually laid out their 'love story' like they kind of did for him and Whit. Her first one on one seemed to last a few commercial breaks and of course the mural date.

It just feels like they've cut down Becca's one on one dates a few times before and it's strange to me.

soccermom333 wrote:

sfrank wrote:Yikes! Not a good look, Chris, when you have revert back to your scripted show lines when Lara Spencer asks what you liked about your new fiancé. "I mean not only is she beautiful, she's talented....and someone that I" (he almost says feel) then quickly "I could see spending the rest of my life with". Lol. And he confirmed his family was why he made the decision I the end.

I want to give Chris the benefit of doubt but it is so hard when I see him in interviews.  His proposal was the least emotional I have ever seen.   I wonder how many times they yelled "cut?"  Hehe  He does nothing for me but Whit loves him.     Because of this I wish them the best.  

Chris needs to learn how to answer the questions  that will be coming his way.  I get the impression these two are struggling already.  

I just mean its over so he can throw away the canned lines and speak from the heart...it shouldn't be THAT hard since you've been together for 4 months now. I honestly would have settled for "Whitney's amazing and every minute I was on our dates it just felt right". That simple.

Kashathediva wrote:

murasaki1393 wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:

I can not remember the above, happening in the past. It was commented on at the time by quite a few posters, too. It was probably done for many reasons. The easiest and best was it clued us in almost immediately she was not going to be the F1. Cutting that part out allowed for other film to be shown that TPTB wanted shown.
As far as the other dates, I think TPTB had Becca slated for this role F2 and a clean edit from day one. JMOAA.
I don't think it's a mistake that you don't have such vocal outrage or sides drawn etc for her rejection etc. She looked so totally cool with the outcome. How can you argue with that? She looked great day 1 after rejection.

Kasha, are you saying that TPTB had Whit also slated for her role as F1 and confident edit from day one too?.. Just curious. If so, for me there is no point to watch this silly show anymore...

Probably should not watch then.  I would miss you.  :Nod:
Just take your rose colored glasses off. I promise I will try to entertain you with diversions.
I have heard for many, many season that the night of the Meat and Geek the main cast person is aware of who the F4 will be and most likely the his top 2. The others are there to fill in for drama and diversion, secondary plot lines.
I have heard from cast that have been approached by producers with certain "roles" to play. One cast person immediately before the Meat & Geek began because he did not want this role. Others have stayed and been the season's villain, buddy etc.
Another sleuther had seen a photo of loose story boarding in a backdrop of a production FB photo years ago. Another sleuther had seen outlines for storyboarding of the next season while the current season was still airing! I know because I have seen these photos with my own eyes. Others here have, too.
Was Whitney slated to be F1? I can not say that. But let's look at how on paper Josh was for Andi. Let's look how on paper Whit was for Chris. So I do think there is a small amount of cast chosen to be perfect on paper for the main. Maybe at times there is a 6 degree of separation between the main and the F1 prior to filiming? Maybe even less than 6 degrees.
When Shayne was chosen for Matt--that was not left to chance.

OK.thanks for filling me in....i guess its good for me to get myself busy in the official opening of my Bach-ish Matchmaking Service..while enjoying snark and comment train with atem . Why bother to sleuth when all were proven to be highly scripted from day 1 and RS would likely gotten the correct BTS info plus edit is totally used to only mislead us?...#smh... :halo:

Gawh!!! I hate TPTB!! HATE!!! I hope the men pick Kaitlyn. I cannot watch an entire season of the "Britt Show!" Can you imagine the over the top crying? No thanks!!!
Plus Kaitlyn is just too darn funny! She would be an awesome Ette. But men are stoooopit, so they will probably pick Britt. Ugh.
No comment on Whitt other than good luck. It was plain as day that Chris was in love with Becca. Becca is the real winner this season. Such a classy gal!