Bachelor 19 - Chris Soules - Discussion - #2

^^^Chris and Whit are engaged and have the pressure to figure out if they are right for one another. IMO no one should get engaged from this show. Essentially they are just dating but feel the pressure to stay together for the show. I agree Chris showed more emotion with Becca and imo settled for Whit. I think she knows it too.

She (they) will have to decide what is the best thing to do and figure it out. Looking at BL and hearing what Chris has been saying--or not saying--in interviews, something is off and they both seemed stressed. JMHO TWT ;)

relaxing wrote: ^^ FLChica

Aww Chris.  So cute.  I think the ending of that relationship must have left a pretty big scar and I get why he'd have concerns about lives and dreams fitting together with anyone new.

I find Chris and Whitney to be such real, genuine people trying to make a go of love that I don't want to try to read anything into their degree of passion, chemistry or love for that matter.  For them to figure out.  I saw more outward showing of affection/excitement from Chris towards Becca, sure,  but also know I can't judge from what I saw what is in his heart towards Whitney. I respect that he made his decision like a man considering real life needs, not as a teenager with a crush.

They are what I love to see come out of this show - nice, decent people (not perfect but none of us are) who do want to try to find a serious adult relationship.

Yes, Chris did consider real life needs when making his decisions on this crazy show! Evidently that disappointed some viewers .

Some notable "teenager with a crush" choices: Jason & Melissa, Brad & Emily, Ben & Courtney, the Englishman & Monkey, Andi & Josh. All of these couplings failed.

Some notable "real life" choices: Trista & Ryan, Jason & Molly, Ashley & JP, Des & Chris, Sean & Cat. All living their lives together happily ever after...

FLChica wrote:

relaxing wrote: ^^ FLChica

Aww Chris.  So cute.  I think the ending of that relationship must have left a pretty big scar and I get why he'd have concerns about lives and dreams fitting together with anyone new.

I find Chris and Whitney to be such real, genuine people trying to make a go of love that I don't want to try to read anything into their degree of passion, chemistry or love for that matter.  For them to figure out.  I saw more outward showing of affection/excitement from Chris towards Becca, sure,  but also know I can't judge from what I saw what is in his heart towards Whitney. I respect that he made his decision like a man considering real life needs, not as a teenager with a crush.

They are what I love to see come out of this show - nice, decent people (not perfect but none of us are) who do want to try to find a serious adult relationship.

Yes, Chris did consider real life needs when making his decisions on this crazy show! Evidently that disappointed some viewers .

Some notable "teenager with a crush" choices: Jason & Melissa, Brad & Emily, Ben & Courtney, the Englishman & Monkey, Andi & Josh. All of these couplings failed.

Some notable "real life" choices: Trista & Ryan, Jason & Molly, Ashley & JP, Des & Chris, Sean & Cat. All living their lives together happily ever after...

Exactly! ! ! Good one

^ Nice observations.

FLChica wrote:

relaxing wrote: ^^ FLChica

Aww Chris.  So cute.  I think the ending of that relationship must have left a pretty big scar and I get why he'd have concerns about lives and dreams fitting together with anyone new.

I find Chris and Whitney to be such real, genuine people trying to make a go of love that I don't want to try to read anything into their degree of passion, chemistry or love for that matter.  For them to figure out.  I saw more outward showing of affection/excitement from Chris towards Becca, sure,  but also know I can't judge from what I saw what is in his heart towards Whitney. I respect that he made his decision like a man considering real life needs, not as a teenager with a crush.

They are what I love to see come out of this show - nice, decent people (not perfect but none of us are) who do want to try to find a serious adult relationship.

Yes, Chris did consider real life needs when making his decisions on this crazy show! Evidently that disappointed some viewers .

Some notable "teenager with a crush" choices: Jason & Melissa, Brad & Emily, Ben & Courtney, the Englishman & Monkey, Andi & Josh. All of these couplings failed.

Some notable "real life" choices: Trista & Ryan, Jason & Molly, Ashley & JP, Des & Chris, Sean & Cat. All living their lives together happily ever after...

I think Chris is exhausted from the show right now and doesn't always say the right thing unlike some previous leads. I actually don't mind that. I doubt that Whitney needs or wants anyone's sympathy. We have no clue what they're like together when it really counts.

Yes, it's clear Chris picked with his brain and passed up on Becca, because he knew there was a very high chance of that relationship ending up the same as his previous engagement. I, however, find it telling that he needed basically all of his family members to remind him of that. And this is not only my interpretation, he's mentioned in all interviews since the show how his family's opinion helped him reach clarity and how it was so hard back in Bali, because he didn't have them to confide in. I still think the reason for the freakout in Bali was because in the FS they discussed Becca's willingness to move to Arlington and he suddenly realised how hesitant she was. That must've given him some major flashbacks, so his brain was telling him to get rid of that option sooner rather than later, but his heart wouldn't let him. If Becca wouldn't have put that fear in him, I don't think he would've thought twice about picking her over Kaitlyn. Whitney's willingness to move took her out of the equation by default, not because his feelings for her were stronger. JMO.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think choosing Becca would've been any wiser, far from it. It's his feelings for Whitney that concern me, because I still can't gauge how much of them were/are based on him being naturally drawn to her, and how much are based on the logistics and her doing everything right, both in the relationship as well as life in general. Admiration isn't the same thing as love.

mindless wrote:Yes, it's clear Chris picked with his brain and passed up on Becca, because he knew there was a very high chance of that relationship ending up the same as his previous engagement. I, however, find it telling that he needed basically all of his family members to remind him of that. And this is not only my interpretation, he's mentioned in all interviews since the show how his family's opinion helped him reach clarity and how it was so hard back in Bali, because he didn't have them to confide in. I still think the reason for the freakout in Bali was because in the FS they discussed Becca's willingness to move to Arlington and he suddenly realised how hesitant she was. That must've given him some major flashbacks, so his brain was telling him to get rid of that option sooner rather than later, but his heart wouldn't let him. If Becca wouldn't have put that fear in him, I don't think he would've thought twice about picking her over Kaitlyn. Whitney's willingness to move took her out of the equation by default, not because his feelings for her were stronger. JMO.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think choosing Becca would've been any wiser, far from it. It's his feelings for Whitney that concern me, because I still can't gauge how much of them were/are based on him being naturally drawn to her, and how much are based on the logistics and her doing everything right, both in the relationship as well as life in general. Admiration isn't the same thing as love.

I think that's the case almost every season…the lead has been isolated from family and friends and are being fed all sorts on propaganda from producers, who knows what they told Chris about Becca and Whitney. They are solely interested in drama for a TV show - not helping Chris figure it out. I can remember Brad, Ashley, Ben and possibly more saying they needed their family to help them figure it out.

Anyway, I think when they get to spend time with their family a flood of emotions just flow out. Chris was finally with someone he trusted to help weed out all the garbage he had been fed for weeks. So good for him that he laid it all out for family - and of course we only saw the part of the conversation that helped promote the story they were telling.

FLChica wrote:

relaxing wrote: ^^ FLChica

Aww Chris.  So cute.  I think the ending of that relationship must have left a pretty big scar and I get why he'd have concerns about lives and dreams fitting together with anyone new.

I find Chris and Whitney to be such real, genuine people trying to make a go of love that I don't want to try to read anything into their degree of passion, chemistry or love for that matter.  For them to figure out.  I saw more outward showing of affection/excitement from Chris towards Becca, sure,  but also know I can't judge from what I saw what is in his heart towards Whitney. I respect that he made his decision like a man considering real life needs, not as a teenager with a crush.

They are what I love to see come out of this show - nice, decent people (not perfect but none of us are) who do want to try to find a serious adult relationship.

Yes, Chris did consider real life needs when making his decisions on this crazy show! Evidently that disappointed some viewers .

Some notable "teenager with a crush" choices: Jason & Melissa, Brad & Emily, Ben & Courtney, the Englishman & Monkey, Andi & Josh. All of these couplings failed.

Some notable "real life" choices: Trista & Ryan, Jason & Molly, Ashley & JP, Des & Chris, Sean & Cat. All living their lives together happily ever after...

FL we usually agree but of your list over half of the ones who made it were not the obvious choice. Charlie made much more sense on paper as did Lindsey or AshLee for Sean. JP was totally Ashley's chemistry choice as well as logical choice (honestly only choice IMO). Des's Chris and maybe Molly and Jason would be closest to Whit and Chris for me.

As for exhausted, ineloquent Chris. The exhaustion is self inflicted and sorry, but Sean was as exhausted and criticized and still managed to handle it. As for the ineloquence, Chris when he is confident and believes what he is saying from his heart is very eloquent. Just listen to him talk about farming, the bumbling idiot is gone and a smooth confident man emerges. I admit I liked him better with Becca, but I have no desire to see him with her now. I wouldn't respect her or him if that happened.

But the lack of conviction and eloquence when he speaks about his relationship with Whitney to me shows that his head and heart are not in the same place. If they were it wouldn't be so hard for him to speak about it with the same comfort and confidence he shows when speaking about that thing that is his truth. Does this mean that they won't work out? Not at all, but to me it shows that for Chris at least, this relationship isn't his comfort or truth yet. To me DWTS seemed like an avoidance tactic to give himself a reason to not be there yet. His head seems to know he is lucky to have Whitney, but his heart or subconscious or whatever isn't there yet.

It reminds me of the George Straight song "You Can't Make A Heart Love Somebody". Some lines from it are I have begged and pleaded with my heart, but there's no gettin through. My heart is the only part of me that doesn't love you. To me that is so true. You can really love someone in every way, but that one critical way and you are just stuck. Maybe it is all my wrong turns in life, but for me it makes me sad when I see people try to accept less than what is perfect for them. And perfect for you in my experience is often not what is perfect on paper. For me one of the bravest decisions I ever made was to be alone rather than accept love that was less than what was right for me. It doesn't mean you don't work at it, but you shouldn't have to try to convince yourself something is good enough either.

I was ready to be happy for this couple at AFTR, if they came out and BOTH seemed happy and content like Des and Chris did. I even kind of hoped that after taking three weeks off from here and coming back that maybe once the pro-Becca backlash and stress of Chris handling the AFTR so badly died down it would be better. Unfortunately, what I see is a man still struggling to convince his heart and a woman doing her best to try to help him to make that happen. Makes me sad for both of them.

As for you list of successful couples, FL, a key difference to me is that by now all of them seemed to have settled into knowing it was good and right for them and Chris still seems to be struggling with that. Even by now Sean had made the commitment to make sure Cat was okay and let DWTS fall where it may. Chris is still putting it in front of Whitney. I honestly think that fans of this couple would be doing them a bigger favor to not vote for Chris. Let Chris walk away from this thing that is making it harder for him to focus on Whit and their relationship.

All of this is JMO.

Hey Stuck! I also tend to stay away for days at a time or read selectively. I don't expect the pro-Becca backlash to subside any time soon. Heck, we still feel the love for Bevin, Arie and many others.

It's really not possible to accurately compare one couple & their situation to another, so I just speak in generalities. And we all know that hindsight is 20/20. I didn't follow SeanCat closely, but I do recall Sean's "oopsie" on SM with insensitive comments about Peta. I also recall him blowing up at her in rehearsal, etc. yet pleading for votes to stay on the show. I do see Chris finding that balance in honoring his commitment to do his very best competing on DWTS and giving Whitney public props. His tweet to Whitney was a simple yet playful statement of his love for her.

This season lacked the inherent drama surrounding the final couple that previous seasons had. Josh-Andi-Nick had the crazy doing the deed with F2 declaration on ATFR show plus the airplane video. Claire-JPG-Nikki had oceangate and no ILY. Brooks-Des-Chris had "I only love Brooks" minutes before Chris's proposal. All we had here was a pretty, likable virgin that had never been in love despite a four year relationship not ready to commit vs. a lovely, mature lady ready to commit. But we really can't discount the feelings the leads had for their F2 in those other situations. Two crashed & burned, one got married.Who knows how it will turn out for Chris and Whitney.

Very soon Chris must head back to his reality of a demanding life on the farm in a tiny town, so let's look at that reality. The flip side of the Becca-Chris-Whitney coin is this: should Chris have settled for infatuation with a gal that wasn't ready commit, didn't know what "love" really feels like and that hoped to maybe one day settle down and have kids? I wonder what would Chris's head would be screaming at him right now if he had chosen Becca.

I watch this show for entertainment and to guess who the F1 will be, mostly losing interest in the couple soon after the show ends. I do actually think this couple stands a very real shot at making it in the real world and that's not something I would say about the last few couples. Thanks for a well-reasoned "discussion" Stuck and welcome back. 

soccermom333 wrote:

sfrank wrote:So that's what Chris looks like when he's in love...what a difference, IMO

I see a difference too.  Always have.  Something is off imo.  TWT.  

Yes....and sheena seems alot different than whitney.... not saying that is a horrible thing ..it's just noticeable

eliza3 wrote:

mindless wrote:Yes, it's clear Chris picked with his brain and passed up on Becca, because he knew there was a very high chance of that relationship ending up the same as his previous engagement. I, however, find it telling that he needed basically all of his family members to remind him of that. And this is not only my interpretation, he's mentioned in all interviews since the show how his family's opinion helped him reach clarity and how it was so hard back in Bali, because he didn't have them to confide in. I still think the reason for the freakout in Bali was because in the FS they discussed Becca's willingness to move to Arlington and he suddenly realised how hesitant she was. That must've given him some major flashbacks, so his brain was telling him to get rid of that option sooner rather than later, but his heart wouldn't let him. If Becca wouldn't have put that fear in him, I don't think he would've thought twice about picking her over Kaitlyn. Whitney's willingness to move took her out of the equation by default, not because his feelings for her were stronger. JMO.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think choosing Becca would've been any wiser, far from it. It's his feelings for Whitney that concern me, because I still can't gauge how much of them were/are based on him being naturally drawn to her, and how much are based on the logistics and her doing everything right, both in the relationship as well as life in general. Admiration isn't the same thing as love.

I think that's the case almost every season…the lead has been isolated from family and friends and are being fed all sorts on propaganda from producers, who knows what they told Chris about Becca and Whitney.  They are solely interested in drama for a TV show - not helping Chris figure it out. I can remember  Brad, Ashley, Ben and possibly more saying they needed their family to help them figure it out.  

Anyway, I think when they get to spend time with their family a flood of emotions just flow out.   Chris was finally with someone he trusted to help weed out all the garbage he had been fed for weeks.   So good for him that he laid it all out for family - and of course we only saw the part of the conversation that helped promote the story they were telling.  

All I saw this season was everyone and their dog trying to push Whitney on Chris. CH even tried to put words in his mouth with the whole "I take it you're in love with this girl?" in Bali. So I really don't think anyone was trying to sway him towards Becca. I think CH even said after the show that it seemed obvious to everyone but Chris himself that Whitney was the one for him. Perhaps the reason that it wasn't obvious to Chris himself is that she simply isn't the right one for him? Even in Bali he said that it doesn't feel right to say he's in love with her. Yet. I suspect his gut was telling him all along that Whitney isn't right for him, but everyone kept telling him she is, so in the end he bought into it. I couldn't have disagreed more with Lori, when she said it's a red flag that Chris can't articulate what he loves about Becca. Not only because he did list plenty of things, but also because the "it" factor can rarely be explained. It's equally hard to explain it when it's missing. You just know, while everyone around you is scratching their head.

Now it's almost 5 months later and they still seem awkward together. I know all couples from this show are still trying to get to know each other at this point, but with the successful couples you could tell there was progression. With these two I see regression. Obviously this is just my opinion and plenty of people see it differently, so who knows. As an outsider, it's just easier to see why two people are right for each other than it is to see why they aren't, so I can totally understand everyone including his family thinking he should be with Whitney. I have a feeling neither of them are entirely sure at this point, so it could go either way. Maybe they will grow into a tight unit once all the glitz and glamour disappears. I just think Whitney deserves someone who is as crazy about her as she is about them. I mean look at her! That girl has no need to settle for anything less. JMO.

mindless wrote:It's his feelings for Whitney that concern me, because I still can't gauge how much of them were/are based on him being naturally drawn to her, and how much are based on the logistics and her doing everything right, both in the relationship as well as life in general. Admiration isn't the same thing as love.

I think it helps to remember that they don't really know each other at all at the end of the show, and so judgments tend to be made on physical attraction rather than the full range of compatibility. We won't know if he is capable of all the real and right feelings for Whitney until they've been together for a while.

I think he is a man that has gotten infatuated quickly in the past, but with that not having worked out for him, maybe a different road into a relationship really will be the wiser one.

I do remember him saying after his first date with Whitney how strong an impression she made on him, however. And that has always made me feel there is something there that isn't obvious to the cameras.

Still, I do see what others do about the lack of spark ... really, only time will tell.