Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

[Guest]

Just was making a general statement. JP fans had to endure hundreds of scathing posts calling JP jealous, bad temper who 'stormed out" and many other vicious, hateful remarks by some ~ not all ~ Ben fans. If you were not one, good for you. I just see now that some, not all, have a complete double standard is my point. Sometimes the best way to see if shoes actually fit is to walk in them for awhile. :D

[Guest]

:hidingchair

[GrahamGal]

I would imagine, since the MTA was taped before the FD's episode aired, Ben has a new perspective that would not include 'safe choice' included in it. Those two dates could not have been more different, Ben-fun and playful, JP-romantic and endearing. There is absolutely no denying what we all saw on the TV...JP was it for her!

Way behind again and this may have been said already, but I think Ben would have the same viewpoint as he did when the show ended. While we have all now seen the show and the difference in the connections I highly doubt that Ben has seen one single episode. Do people really think Ben, who was let go and heartbroken, went home and watched the show? Doubt it. So if he hasn't he would still be talking at the ATFR based on what he knew while filming.

[bluwavz]

I would imagine, since the MTA was taped before the FD's episode aired, Ben has a new perspective that would not include 'safe choice' included in it. Those two dates could not have been more different, Ben-fun and playful, JP-romantic and endearing. There is absolutely no denying what we all saw on the TV...JP was it for her!

Way behind again and this may have been said already, but I think Ben would have the same viewpoint as he did when the show ended. While we have all now seen the show and the difference in the connections I highly doubt that Ben has seen one single episode. Do people really think Ben, who was let go and heartbroken, went home and watched the show? Doubt it. So if he hasn't he would still be talking at the ATFR based on what he knew while filming.

I mostly agree that he probably didn't watch too much of the show, but wouldn't he have had to at least watch a few of the episodes to do his vlogs for his 1-on-1 dates and the commentary on the HTD episode? He must have at least watched some of his dates. I highly doubt he watched any of JP's dates, though.

[beader]

Ben is adorable and when he said JP is the "safe" choice didn't he mean it'd be less change for Ashley in geography and flexibility? Ben knows he's tied to the winery. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt instead of using the lack of maturity approach. However, I'm way older than him and part of me will never "mature" but would like to give away some of the parts of me that have! It does appear that JP and Ashley are a great couple whichs is fun.

I'm also "way older" than Ben, and I'm sure that's the reason I'm more uncomfortable than many viewers with Ben's video that was leaked. I'm not making a judgment here, just commenting on the generation thing. My daughter, who is much closer to Ben's age, thought the video was hilarious. So when I saw how swiftly ABC got that video "recalled", I wondered if they were thinking of viewers like me, and wanted to be sure no doors were closed on the possibility of Ben being the next bachelor.

I haven't been on the board much in the last few days and hadn';t heard about a leaked video??? Can I see it somewhere, or was there a discussion going on about it in another thread??? so curious

Apparently the video was posted on RS's blog, we also had it here, but ABC legal asked everyone who had the video posted to remove it from their blogs, forums. So it is no longer available for viewing.

Then my guess would be that ABC legal thought it was pretty gross, too.

[rc49ers]

Ben said He made the Flight home just in time to make his best friends wedding ,

[Guest]

I agree with what you are saying JBF. Ashley is a very bright, sweet young lady, but after watching her in Brads season and in her own, I think she needs a lot of reassurance..she herself has said she has a lot of insecurities. I think JP gives her the reassurance and security she needs but also supports her ambition for her career. I was very impressed with Ashley's honesty with JP, being able to tell him everything that happened (Bentley, Ryan, etc) but also in how JP handled the situation, with understanding and not conviction, I think that's exactly what she needs, instead of "your a smart girl, you'll figure it out..

[raekae]

Wow... there's a lot of debate going on in this thread. I usually lurk, and rarely post, but I have time to kill so I'll throw in my two cents

What happens at the FRC is a breakup. Breakups are hard. Breakups on national tv? Ridiculously hard. Lets be real with ourselves, when we've been broken up with, do we always react with the best grace and tact? Heck no! We're being dumped!

Now, lets look at Ben and Ashley. Ashley is dumping Ben. Ben thinks he's getting engaged, jumps the gun and proposes. He laid it all out on the line for this girl, and he did it on national television. Thats rough enough in itself! Granted, he probably should've thought about the other man in this strange scenario, but if it were me in this situation, the only way I could make it thru would be to not think about the other girl thats vying for my mans heart and affection.

I personally think the way Ben reacted is normal. Perfectly normal. We all process things differently, and this is how Ben initially processes. I don't think he needs to be bashed on at all. I also think that they way Ashley handled things was normal. Breakups are hard on both the dumper and dumpee. Why don't we all remember that these people are real life humans, just like you and me, and lets cut them some slack!

[jjinkc]

It does seem as though the Ben fans that are in question are not posting currently and the ones that are posting at the moment, have not been one-sided on their views and have extended best wishes to both Ashley and JP.

Let's not be sore winners, either. Just because a few posters were over-zealous in their interpretation of JP does not make it justifiable for anyone to do the same of Ben...there is no need to "win" in that area, nor have the last word. It would be nice if everyone could appreciate the best of both guys, overlook the worst because it really doesn't affect any of us in any way, and enjoy the love story we got to see this season. And if you don't like the love story that came about, keep following your favourite and see what is next for him...hopefully Ben for next Bach!

Bottom line is that everyone involved in the F2 part of the FRC: Ashley, Ben, CH, TPTB are all responsible in their own way for what happened. Obviously, CH and TPTB were not going to interrupt and I'm inclined to think they encouraged some of what happened, but both Ben and Ashley are responsible for their actions, or lack of action as it may be. Remember that these are the people that listened to the spewing of Bentley and didn't clue Ashley in so as to not interfere with the process.

Ashley is a reasonable person and I would think that she, herself, feels horrible as to how it went down and if given another shot at it, probably would handle it better. I am not going to judge because I have no idea what I would have done. Knowing to do the right thing, and doing it when the situation gets out of control, are 2 different issues.

Ben, for his part, has every right to be upset and as we don't know the object of his frustration/anger, it is not really fair to judge him for those actions. He may have been angriest at himself for letting himself get so caught up in the moment and then being burned. From his statement that "everything good ends bad" or something like that, it makes it look to me like it is an issue with his life/past, not necessarily Ashley, and he is upset he got pummelled again. Maybe walking away, getting some distance was the only way he could handle that moment. And if he was angry at Ashley, he has a right to those emotions...obviously he cared enough to be upset.

I believe that after some introspection and distance from the show (taping and airing) that both Ashley and Ben will come to the conclusion that they could have behaved better in that moment. Ashley could have had more composure and not let the situation get out of her control and Ben could have said a gracious goodbye and then vented in the limo. It is easy for any of us to say how we would have acted, but none of us has ever been in this situation to know for sure. And saying JP would have acted a certain way is not really fair because, he himself, admitted that knowing how a situation should be and then living through it is different and you can be surprised by your actions (Taiwan)

[Ayana]

Wow... there's a lot of debate going on in this thread. I usually lurk, and rarely post, but I have time to kill so I'll throw in my two cents

What happens at the FRC is a breakup. Breakups are hard. Breakups on national tv? Ridiculously hard. Lets be real with ourselves, when we've been broken up with, do we always react with the best grace and tact? Heck no! We're being dumped!

Now, lets look at Ben and Ashley. Ashley is dumping Ben. Ben thinks he's getting engaged, jumps the gun and proposes. He laid it all out on the line for this girl, and he did it on national television. Thats rough enough in itself! Granted, he probably should've thought about the other man in this strange scenario, but if it were me in this situation, the only way I could make it thru would be to not think about the other girl thats vying for my mans heart and affection.

I personally think the way Ben reacted is normal. Perfectly normal. We all process things differently, and this is how Ben initially processes. I don't think he needs to be bashed on at all. I also think that they way Ashley handled things was normal. Breakups are hard on both the dumper and dumpee. Why don't we all remember that these people are real life humans, just like you and me, and lets cut them some slack!

[Guest]

A very fair and well-written post. Thanks, jjinkc!!

[Guest]

JBF, I always love reading your perspective on everything. Thanks for being so "windy"! :D

The quote a few of you here were fishing for from her hometown date with Brad was this one: “I think my family has an inflated sense of my confidence. I think they see me in these situations when I’m, like, comfortable. They do NOT see me when I’m out of my element.”

yes, thank you.. that is the one I was thinking of, I remember you talking about it once before and it kinda stuck with me.

I’m just guessing here that Chrystie sees JP as very fixed and too “stable”, but also… and we can’t blame her for this… knows NOTHING about Bentley or her melt down at the comedy roast, in addition to all of her other insecurities brought out on this show.

and to me this is the kicker. In the preview commercial, yes Ashley is upset that Chrystie doesn't like JP, but that's not the whole problem. What Chrystie is saying right before Ashley breaks down into tears is essentially that she is wrong for JP. ("you're too much for him.") That had to hit Ashley where it hurt. Ashley does have insecurities (just like most of us) and I can only imagine that this was something that probably nagged at her in her own mind too. You meet the perfect guy and fall in love, but are you good enough for him? Will he stick around? Will he leave when he realizes you are.. just you? Now, I don't know her sister at all, so I have no idea whether this is just an innocent, atypically dense, isolated kind of remark or whether it is her sister's m.o. to play on Ashley's insecurities and put her down. (I'm not being snarky here, everyone, it could be anywhere on that spectrum, I don't have a clue.) But either way it was just another piece that shows me that Ashley really needed someone who can love her bubbly confident side while also understanding that she has a vulnerable side and supports her so that she doesn't have to put up the facade of confidence all the time.

which I guess brings it back to this part of your comments:

instead, she said in Fiji that he’s her “rock” in this very bumpy journey. He is probably also quite stubborn (and yeah… jealous), but that is exactly what a girl whose dad was never there for her wants. She is constantly seeking comfort, but the only time she says that with Ben was when they were on the scooter. On the other hand, she is completely relaxed with JP, because no matter what happens, he will help her get through it. The more “fixed” his personality the better! In any case, he still allows her to be her goofy dorky self.

you've hit the nail on the head. With JP, Ashley can show ALL the sides of herself.

And, yeah, I was impressed by her stepdad on her HTD with Brad.. he seemed to "get it".

[Sponsored content]