Re: Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Thread #1

[northernviewer]

The previews for next week show Ashley and Ben to be distant on the helicopter. I'm curiuos to see how she acts around Ben after spending the night in the FS with JP ... and if JP has his LCD first to and has already told her that he loves her.

[beader]

I took a different twist on the "you are too much for him".
A bit of a leap here since the phrase was taken out of context of the entire conversation, but my thoughts:
Ashley's family is very proud of her achievements. She has excelled at many things in her life, dancing and academics. She will be a dentist very soon.
I took the "you are too much for him", meaning you are settling and he is not good enough for where you are going in life. I have some other private thoughts also, but am not going there.
Anyway, just thought I would throw my specs out there for what it's worth. Zilch probably.

Maybe Sis doesn't realize what a Master's Degree from a major school for construction management really means. If she knows and still this he's "not good enough for where Ash is going," then she is a real snob. Like a man who is really going places would want her (Sis) on his arm! Only in high neck and long sleeves!

[ironcat]

I took a different twist on the "you are too much for him".
A bit of a leap here since the phrase was taken out of context of the entire conversation, but my thoughts:
Ashley's family is very proud of her achievements. She has excelled at many things in her life, dancing and academics. She will be a dentist very soon.
I took the "you are too much for him", meaning you are settling and he is not good enough for where you are going in life. I have some other private thoughts also, but am not going there.
Anyway, just thought I would throw my specs out there for what it's worth. Zilch probably.

No offense to dentists, it's a wonderful profession, but since when does that make Ashley of superior status to either a successful winemaker or a successful construction manager (maybe the sister got confused and thought JP was a construction worker)? I find that attitude, if that's really the bee in her sister's bonnet, to be pretty amusing, considering having seen all three families, it's clear that JP's and Ben's are at a somewhat higher socio-economic status than her own. Not that it should matter any, but if Chrystie thinks that Ashley should hold out for somebody "better", I think she's a bit delusional.

I personally more and more think the whole thing was set up by producers to create one final obstacle in the Ash/JP love story, and the sister went along because she wanted the attention for her "media career".

[sjcaligurl]

The previews for next week show Ashley and Ben to be distant on the helicopter. I'm curiuos to see how she acts around Ben after spending the night in the FS with JP ... and if JP has his LCD first to and has already told her that he loves her.

I think she's probably already decided at this point. I think she probably likes Ben more than most leads have liked their F2s. But, I will probably detect a slight change in body language when she is with him ... he will probably come on a little stronger and she a little less.

[Peppermom]

I took a different twist on the "you are too much for him".
A bit of a leap here since the phrase was taken out of context of the entire conversation, but my thoughts:
Ashley's family is very proud of her achievements. She has excelled at many things in her life, dancing and academics. She will be a dentist very soon.
I took the "you are too much for him", meaning you are settling and he is not good enough for where you are going in life. I have some other private thoughts also, but am not going there.
Anyway, just thought I would throw my specs out there for what it's worth. Zilch probably.

Awww Kash, your opinion is always worth reading.

[jlccaz]

Funny, Kasha, I thought that was a direct reference to the Ashley who was counting toes in the deleted scene, goofing around with Ben. That aspect of her personality (which she acknowledged Ben brought out in her continuously, and which a sister would know very very well) struck me as out of sync with JP. I thought the deleted scene was intended to forecast an issue JP/Ashley would have to grow through. We haven't been shown any scenes between JP and Ashley that would indicate that he gets or loves that side of her, or that would indicate that (in the extremely artificial constraints of the show), she has shown him the goofy side her sister would know so well. (perhaps she suppressed it, perhaps he doesn't bring it out in her, perhaps she did and we didn't see it).

That, and his temper/possessiveness, if that's a Real World not merely Show Trait, would be two issues for the couple to address post-filming day to day.

I'm concerned Ashley has unresolved Daddy issues (the goofy/giddy stuff supports this) that JP who is much older addresses in some way, that may or may not be good for a long term healthy relationship. I found her attraction to Brad and eventual poutiness, etc. positively creepy for that reason.

The Ashley we saw on The Bachelor (who acted like a 14 year old around Ashley S, however good friends they were) is still in there somewhere, even if during the airing of The Bachelorette we were largely shown a different side, or manufactured ITMs and voice overs.

Just sayin'.

[sjcaligurl]

Funny, Kasha, I thought that was a direct reference to the Ashley who was counting toes in the deleted scene, goofing around with Ben. That aspect of her personality (which she acknowledged Ben brought out in her continuously, and which a sister would know very very well) struck me as out of sync with JP. I thought the deleted scene was intended to forecast an issue JP/Ashley would have to grow through. We haven't been shown any scenes between JP and Ashley that would indicate that he gets or loves that side of her, or that would indicate that (in the extremely artificial constraints of the show), she has shown him the goofy side her sister would know so well. (perhaps she suppressed it, perhaps he doesn't bring it out in her, perhaps she did and we didn't see it).

That, and his temper/possessiveness, if that's a Real World not merely Show Trait, would be two issues for the couple to address post-filming day to day.

I'm concerned Ashley has unresolved Daddy issues (the goofy/giddy stuff supports this) that JP who is much older addresses in some way, that may or may not be good for a long term healthy relationship. I found her attraction to Brad and eventual poutiness, etc. positively creepy for that reason.

The Ashley we saw on The Bachelor (who acted like a 14 year old around Ashley S, however good friends they were) is still in there somewhere, even if during the airing of The Bachelorette we were largely shown a different side, or manufactured ITMs and voice overs.

Just sayin'.

I'm sure we are missing a lot w/JP. They are showing us the passion and the serious side of their relationship. She told CH that she could be all parts of herself with JP. They seemed to laugh a lot on the skating date. She really likes teasing him and he doesn't seem to mind. The problem is that we've only seen dates which were after some sort of crisis. The first, second and FD's all had serious talk - about her and some other guy.

I don't know that she has daddy issues because she seems to have had a strong male figure in the household. I think this insecurity thing has been exaggerated and both she and JP have made mention of that. I think she will definitely have the upper hand with JP even though she seems to admire and respect his opinion. I think he is one of those partners that likes to be with the person a lot but then she said that was how she felt about him last night.

They will do about as well as the other couples do but I really see a lot of potential for them.

[ironcat]

Funny, Kasha, I thought that was a direct reference to the Ashley who was counting toes in the deleted scene, goofing around with Ben. That aspect of her personality (which she acknowledged Ben brought out in her continuously, and which a sister would know very very well) struck me as out of sync with JP. I thought the deleted scene was intended to forecast an issue JP/Ashley would have to grow through. We haven't been shown any scenes between JP and Ashley that would indicate that he gets or loves that side of her, or that would indicate that (in the extremely artificial constraints of the show), she has shown him the goofy side her sister would know so well. (perhaps she suppressed it, perhaps he doesn't bring it out in her, perhaps she did and we didn't see it).

That, and his temper/possessiveness, if that's a Real World not merely Show Trait, would be two issues for the couple to address post-filming day to day.

I'm concerned Ashley has unresolved Daddy issues (the goofy/giddy stuff supports this) that JP who is much older addresses in some way, that may or may not be good for a long term healthy relationship. I found her attraction to Brad and eventual poutiness, etc. positively creepy for that reason.

The Ashley we saw on The Bachelor (who acted like a 14 year old around Ashley S, however good friends they were) is still in there somewhere, even if during the airing of The Bachelorette we were largely shown a different side, or manufactured ITMs and voice overs.

Just sayin'.

I believe Ashley said to CH that she can be herself with JP and that he accepts all sides of her including her goofy side, so I really don't see this being a problem. He was presented on the show as more of the "grownup", and most of their convos were of a more serious nature, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a goofy side himself, just as I'm sure Ben, as a businessman, has a more mature, confident side than what we were largely shown.

Sorry, but I still find it kind of mind boggling that so many people are concerned about JP's alleged temper or possessiveness in the real world, considering all we know about the mind**** this show is, particularly for anyone who really develops feelings early on, which he obviously did (and now we know that they were reciprocated early on, so he wasn't delusional about it, like some of them are every season). I would make a large wager that we will never hear of any problems JP has in those areas going forward with Ash in the future, and if it ends up not working out, it won't be for either of those reasons.

[Alanna]

1. Ashley said she can be whoever and whatever she wants with JP and he's fine with that.
2. IDK about Daddy Issues but she wanted a man who would never leave her and would never make her doubt herself and she got him. I don't see the problem.
3. JP joked about his own "jealousy and rage issues" so I think they have been put to rest by him and Ashley.

[sjcaligurl]

Funny, Kasha, I thought that was a direct reference to the Ashley who was counting toes in the deleted scene, goofing around with Ben. That aspect of her personality (which she acknowledged Ben brought out in her continuously, and which a sister would know very very well) struck me as out of sync with JP. I thought the deleted scene was intended to forecast an issue JP/Ashley would have to grow through. We haven't been shown any scenes between JP and Ashley that would indicate that he gets or loves that side of her, or that would indicate that (in the extremely artificial constraints of the show), she has shown him the goofy side her sister would know so well. (perhaps she suppressed it, perhaps he doesn't bring it out in her, perhaps she did and we didn't see it).

That, and his temper/possessiveness, if that's a Real World not merely Show Trait, would be two issues for the couple to address post-filming day to day.

I'm concerned Ashley has unresolved Daddy issues (the goofy/giddy stuff supports this) that JP who is much older addresses in some way, that may or may not be good for a long term healthy relationship. I found her attraction to Brad and eventual poutiness, etc. positively creepy for that reason.

The Ashley we saw on The Bachelor (who acted like a 14 year old around Ashley S, however good friends they were) is still in there somewhere, even if during the airing of The Bachelorette we were largely shown a different side, or manufactured ITMs and voice overs.

Just sayin'.

I believe Ashley said to CH that she can be herself with JP and that he accepts all sides of her including her goofy side, so I really don't see this being a problem. He was presented on the show as more of the "grownup", and most of their convos were of a more serious nature, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a goofy side himself, just as I'm sure Ben, as a businessman, has a more mature, confident side than what we were largely shown.

Sorry, but I still find it kind of mind boggling that so many people are concerned about JP's alleged temper or possessiveness in the real world, considering all we know about the mind**** this show is, particularly for anyone who really develops feelings early on, which he obviously did (and now we know that they were reciprocated early on, so he wasn't delusional in his feelings, like some of them are every season). I would make a large wager that we will never hear of any problems JP has in those areas going forward with Ash in the future, and if it ends up not working out, it won't be for either of those reasons.

JP and Ryan seemed to have similar feelings for Ashley (at least Ryan wants us to think so) but she didn't return Ryans. They were both smitten very early on. There just wasn't an ounce of chemistry with Ryan from Ashley's POV. Both Ryan and JP expressed a desire for it to be just the two of them and wanting her for themselves. Isn't that the point of the show. I'm glad JP was honest and I'm glad he was able to tell her on the FD that he just wanted it to be over and be him. I'm not sure any other guy has done that before and I don't see why that is such a problem for people. These two communicate very well with one another and that is really, really important.

[LaureanT]

1. Ashley said she can be whoever and whatever she wants with JP and he's fine with that.
2. IDK about Daddy Issues but she wanted a man who would never leave her and would never make her doubt herself and she got him. I don't see the problem.
3. JP joked about his own "jealousy and rage issues" so I think they have been put to rest by him and Ashley.

Alanna, Congratulations on getting your happy love story! I am so happy for you!

[jlccaz]

I've watched the show and the couples a lot. As have most here. The producers lived with them for two months, and had endless "how do you feel" conversations with and about them, together and separately. The veterans all agree. The challenges that the final couple will need to overcome are forecast in the season. So, we'll see. The abandonment issues are real. She told Brad as much on their first date.

That said, the fan-ism on the board at this stage of the airing of the series doesn't allow for cooler heads to offer different opinions. And I'm fine with that.

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