Re: Bachelor 19 - Kelsey Poe - Discussion

by Ladybug82 Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:49 am

Wow! I was way off in thinking she was one of the normal, non-drama ones. How'd she manage to hide the crazy for so long or did the other crazies just overshadow her?

I agree, Rolly. I've been so uninterested in watching this show from the time it started airing because of all the over the top acting and drama. If there is actually a love story, it would be nice to see more of it and less of the drama.

by KB_Mom Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:12 am

I take medication to control panic attacks and before the meds, experienced many true (in the medical sense) panic attacks and as posted above, a true panic attack is nothing like that.

by notarose Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:48 pm

The whole situation is just sadly bizarre.
The Epi airs within days of the 2 year anniversary of her husband's death - an emotional time without the SM backlash.
Secondly, IMO she has allowed herself to be defined as a person on the basis of a singular event - what she has learned about herself as a widow and in a way that suggests she sees herself as a martyr. Compare this to the woman who's husband committed suicide while raising a young child and Kelsey's view of her situation seems a tad unhealthy.
Thirdly, her thinking Chris needed to know and that then he would give her a rose is, to me, a disconnect. The whole season, thus far, is stuck on labels. Chris thinking his being a farmer makes him less desirable, the whole virgin thing and whether that's what a guy wants, and the widow issue. Sheesh, what about personality and compatibility? no idea

by MiaHawk Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:11 pm

I think there is a lot of focus on the contestants' sad backstories. Not just in this season, but in all seasons. It is the show that wants to label everyone in simple terms...good, evil, widow, hero, single mom.... They slice and dice just to boil people down to a few soundbites and then they sit the people down and ask them to elaborate on this one aspect of their lives for even more footage to splice in. It annoys me every season! I'd much rather watch conversations and make my own assessment, but tptb don't like to show us anything real. They prefer to try to manipulate our minds into believing what they are feeding us. Yes, Kelsey said some weird things and yes, she may not be very likeable to most, but I still give her some slack because I know how this show chews people up and spits them out. I guess, at this point in time, I just don't feel like piling it on.

I have my own thoughts about how the girl (forgot her name) whose husband committed suicide, too. I chose not to post my thoughts anout her scenes. I will just say that IMO she appears very ignornant about mental illness.

by Longhornfan Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:06 pm

MiaHawk wrote:I think there is a lot of focus on the contestants' sad backstories. Not just in this season, but in all seasons. It is the show that wants to label everyone in simple terms...good, evil, widow, hero, single mom.... They slice and dice just to boil people down to a few soundbites and then they sit the people down and ask them to elaborate on this one aspect of their lives for even more footage to splice in. It annoys me every season! I'd much rather watch conversations and make my own assessment, but tptb don't like to show us anything real. They prefer to try to manipulate our minds into believing what they are feeding us. Yes, Kelsey said some weird things and yes, she may not be very likeable to most, but I still give her some slack because I know how this show chews people up and spits them out. I guess, at this point in time, I just don't feel like piling it on.

Mia, thanks for sharing your experience dealing with what happened to your dad and how it not only affected you, but how your mother learned to cope with it. This is one reason why I love to come here and read what so many of you wonderful posters share. I have never experienced anything like what you endured (nor Kelsey either for that matter), but I have learned things here about myself and have grown as a person just by being able to see things through the eyes of someone else. So, thanks to all you awesome posters here.

Now, about Kelsey. I agree that the producers have exploited Kelsey in order to bring even more drama to Chris S's season. It was apparent to me that they had spliced and diced the footage they showed of her on Monday night. Just when I think that the people behind the editing and production of TB can not stoop any lower, well, they actually do.

I am really conflicted as to how I feel about Kelsey right now, but I am thoroughly disgusted with Chris Harrison and all of the producers of this show, who feel that it is okay to exploit people like Kelsey, with no regard for how it is going to affect their lives afterwards. She isn't the first, and she won't be the last. But, it still boggles my mind that they can find these woman and men and get them to sign their lives away.

by Fivesolas76 Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:27 pm

Longhornfan wrote:
MiaHawk wrote:I think there is a lot of focus on the contestants' sad backstories. Not just in this season, but in all seasons. It is the show that wants to label everyone in simple terms...good, evil, widow, hero, single mom.... They slice and dice just to boil people down to a few soundbites and then they sit the people down and ask them to elaborate on this one aspect of their lives for even more footage to splice in. It annoys me every season! I'd much rather watch conversations and make my own assessment, but tptb don't like to show us anything real. They prefer to try to manipulate our minds into believing what they are feeding us. Yes, Kelsey said some weird things and yes, she may not be very likeable to most, but I still give her some slack because I know how this show chews people up and spits them out. I guess, at this point in time, I just don't feel like piling it on.

Mia, thanks for sharing your experience dealing with what happened to your dad and how it not only affected you, but how your mother learned to cope with it. This is one reason why I love to come here and read what so many of you wonderful posters share. I have never experienced anything like what you endured (nor Kelsey either for that matter), but I have learned things here about myself and have grown as a person just by being able to see things through the eyes of someone else. So, thanks to all you awesome posters here.

Now, about Kelsey. I agree that the producers have exploited Kelsey in order to bring even more drama to Chris S's season. It was apparent to me that they had spliced and diced the footage they showed of her on Monday night. Just when I think that the people behind the editing and production of TB can not stoop any lower, well, they actually do.

I am really conflicted as to how I feel about Kelsey right now, but I am thoroughly disgusted with Chris Harrison and all of the producers of this show, who feel that it is okay to exploit people like Kelsey, with no regard for how it is going to affect their lives afterwards. She isn't the first, and she won't be the last. But, it still boggles my mind that they can find these woman and men and get them to sign their lives away.

Longhorn fan, they can slice and dice her all they want but she still has to be accountable for what comes out of her mouth. She did use the word "amazing" when describing her story and did use her husband's death as a reason to get a rose from Chris. Perhaps this is her way of coping with being a window. I don't know the woman. I found it strange that none of the women ran to console her when she had her panic attack. This tells me Kelsey gave off bad vibes to all of the women, not just on camera but off. Even with the editing, we only see about 10% of what goes on in that house daily.

by Longhornfan Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:03 pm

Fivesolas76 wrote:
Longhornfan wrote:
MiaHawk wrote:I think there is a lot of focus on the contestants' sad backstories. Not just in this season, but in all seasons. It is the show that wants to label everyone in simple terms...good, evil, widow, hero, single mom.... They slice and dice just to boil people down to a few soundbites and then they sit the people down and ask them to elaborate on this one aspect of their lives for even more footage to splice in. It annoys me every season! I'd much rather watch conversations and make my own assessment, but tptb don't like to show us anything real. They prefer to try to manipulate our minds into believing what they are feeding us. Yes, Kelsey said some weird things and yes, she may not be very likeable to most, but I still give her some slack because I know how this show chews people up and spits them out. I guess, at this point in time, I just don't feel like piling it on.

Mia, thanks for sharing your experience dealing with what happened to your dad and how it not only affected you, but how your mother learned to cope with it. This is one reason why I love to come here and read what so many of you wonderful posters share. I have never experienced anything like what you endured (nor Kelsey either for that matter), but I have learned things here about myself and have grown as a person just by being able to see things through the eyes of someone else. So, thanks to all you awesome posters here.

Now, about Kelsey. I agree that the producers have exploited Kelsey in order to bring even more drama to Chris S's season. It was apparent to me that they had spliced and diced the footage they showed of her on Monday night. Just when I think that the people behind the editing and production of TB can not stoop any lower, well, they actually do.

I am really conflicted as to how I feel about Kelsey right now, but I am thoroughly disgusted with Chris Harrison and all of the producers of this show, who feel that it is okay to exploit people like Kelsey, with no regard for how it is going to affect their lives afterwards. She isn't the first, and she won't be the last. But, it still boggles my mind that they can find these woman and men and get them to sign their lives away.

Longhorn fan, they can slice and dice her all they want but she still has to be accountable for what comes out of her mouth. She did use the word "amazing" when describing her story and did use her husband's death as a reason to get a rose from Chris. Perhaps this is her way of coping with being a window. I don't know the woman. I found it strange that none of the women ran to console her when she had her panic attack. This tells me Kelsey gave off bad vibes to all of the women, not just on camera but off. Even with the editing, we only see about 10% of what goes on in that house daily.

Like I said, I am conflicted as to how I feel about Kelsey. I stand by saying that the editing can and does play a large part in Kelsey's "story" - the story that is being presented to us by the producers. And, yes, they are using the words that she gave them. You are also correct in saying that we do not see more than maybe 10% of what goes on inside the house, which (in my mind) leaves production with a lot of leeway when choosing what they want to present.

Judging from what they have shown of Kelsey's interaction with the other women in the house, I agree that they all feel like something is "off" with her as well. What the women who actually lived in the same house with her say during the filming of the show is probably a good indicator of who Kelsey is, but their interactions with her are taken within a very unnatural setting - certainly not within a normal setting. So, I am not saying that Kelsey isn't coming off as being strange, but I will say that the editors of this show are not her friends. And, I expect things to get even worse for Kelsey next Monday night.

Bottom line, I just hate to see anyone who goes on TB have to deal with the aftermath of a bad edit, whether it is true or not. I especially feel that way if that person is perhaps "fragile" or perhaps is dealing with some kind of mental or emotional problem and should never have been a part of TB in the first place. To me, Kelsey sounds like someone who should never have made it past the initial screening process.

by stuckinsc Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:19 pm

chasingpavements wrote:This probably makes me sound REALLY cynical, but I think after Emily Maynard's huge popularity and success on the show, many women feel like they can be the next EM, if they just play up their tragedy. I felt like this when I heard Julia and Kelsey's stories. The stories didn't come up naturally, and instead, it just seemed like they were very aware of the viewers when telling them. I'm sure the producers are saying things like "Don't you feel like America will fall in love with you after hearing your story?", but ultimately it's their decision.

MiaHawk wrote:First, I think it is horrible that Kelsey is receiving so much negativity on social media.

Second, TPTB totally through Kelsey under the bus. I realize that she signed a contract saying that they could show her in an unflattering light, but what person would think that even they would stoop so low as to exploit the death of a spouse. Unless you are a super fan (have watched season after season), it would be a reasonable assumption that nobody would take your sharing of the death of your spouse and humiliate you via it.

Third, Kelsey's whole demeanor seems off. I agree with the posters above who commented on how controlled and buttoned up she appears. At first, I thought of this as her maturity or general personality, but now I think that there is a bit of "detachment" in the way she behaves. I think that, in order not to break down emotionally with unresolved grief, she has adapted a very matter of fact way of conveying her backstory to others. I think it is a kind of protective instinct. If she can hold it together and speak about his death calmly and lay out the facts of his death without emotion, this boosts her sense of control and confidence. I suspect, like many of you, that she still has much healing to do.

Fourth, her use of "story" is an extention of what I said above. I think that by labeling the tragedy of her husband's death as a "story" or "her story" it gives the whole horrible event a tidy little name, a name other than "death", that she can use to refer to that time in her life. I will share this: When I was in the 4th grade, my father (who owned and operated his own one-man store), was robbed and beaten with the butt of a rifle such that his skull was bashed in, one of his eyes popped out of its socket, one lung collapse, and he was left to die in a pool of his own blood. By the grace of God, a customer walked in and found him and called 911. He was rushed to the hospital and underwent about 12 hours of (neuro)surgery. My mother was told that he may live but be "a vegetable." (At the age of 10, the only definition I knew of "vegetable" was a carrot or a tomato. My older brothers had to explain to me what may lie ahead for our beloved dad.) My father, tough scrapper that his is, made a full and miraculous recovery. Within a month, with a head stitched up and mis-shapen like Frankstein's, he was back to working fulltime in his store. When asked how he could return, he replies: "I had a family to take care of. What other choice did I have?" For a time in the invetigation, my mother was actually considered Suspect #1 in his attempted murder case (just by virtue of the fact that the spouse is always a suspect, I suppose). Dr Henry Lee (now world famous forensic scientist) worked the case, but the case was never solved. To this very day, whenever my mother talks about this event in our family's history, she refers to it as "your father's accident". It most certainly was not an accident. He was the victim of a brutal crime. But, I think in a way, that by her labeling it as an "accident" it removes (in her mind at least) some of the victimization and helplessness that she (and we) all felt during that horrible time. Over the years, I even questioned my mother as to why she called it an accident when it wasn't an accident, and she didn't really have a particular reason that she could articulate. I think, in a way, it was also a way for her to move forward and not be so afraid that something like that could ever happen again (when it was definitely possible that my father could be robbed again at work). Our minds are interesting things, and sometimes it just takes a turn of a phrase to allow us to cope with what first appears to be un-copeable.

Her use of "my amazing" story. Yes, she was relaying the story of her husband's death, but in this instance she was trying to share something about who she is as a person. "My" story refers to how she became a widow and how she has been touched by love and loss. "Amazing" doesn't refer to an amazing death or an amazing loss. It is her way of saying that she is choosing to focus on the positive going forward. It did come across as a bit odd when they showed it on tv. Her slow, measured telling of her story seemed a bit off, but I think the delivery was colored by her big attempt to be a bit detached and not become emotional. Her ringing her own bell by calling herself "amazing" for being a survivor of her husband's passing might not have come across well in the diced and spliced episode and it might not be what the average person would choose to say about themselves as a survivor. I don't really have a problem with that, again, because I think that semantics can be very powerful to our own psyches. I'm a self-described "word person" and love to parse what was said and what it all means, but to me I think "amazing" is 90% about boosting up her own psyche and only about 10% about her ego/self-centerness. And compared to Ashley I's 99.9% self-centerness, this particular storyline with Kelsey just doesn't personally bother me too much at all. I was more disturbed by her behavior at the non-cocktail party when she spoke to the other women about being confident about a rose and the scenes of her on the floor (having a panic attack?). But, who knows, maybe all of those emotions that she had kept pushed down all neatly tied in a bow for 18 months suddenly came bubbling up to the surface and she was over-come. I guess I'll just have to wait til next episode and see how it all plays out with her.

Thanks for listening.

MiniDiva wrote:I am sad for Kelsey as I don't think she fully went through the grieving process with the sudden loss of her husband. Rather she seemed to work hard to overcome the loss, rush through it and maybe even denied it. She was not ready to be on this show, especially this type of show where your vulnerabilities and errors are exploited. JMO.

MiaHawk wrote:
Eviebloom wrote:
GuardianAngel wrote:Thanks for all that Mia. You make some valid points. I guess my POV is, I would never boast how amazing I am getting through the loss of a loved one. SMH at the thought of it. Why is it necessary for one to do that. She's a councelor? Everything she mentions, she turns it around to make it all about her.

IA the SM bullying is uncalled for. The sad truth is it happens every day and it's out of control in our society.
This sounds like what someone would tell her to encourage her. Not for her to say about herself.

Precisely! I think this is her "counselor-speak" to herself. I agree that she does come across as sounding aloof or arrogant when she refers to herself as amazing, because it is not socially acceptable for a person to toot their own horn like that. But, IMO, I don't think she is referring to herself (as a person) as being "amazing", but rather she is referring to her resilience as being "amazing".

I think that she must personally be very focused on the virtue of being emotionally strong and of being in control. Some people, still fall prey to the idea that you must always be strong and you must never indulge in self-pity (the true process of grieving) or ask anyone for help. They are the type of people to delve right back into life, sometimes before they are truly ready. (I hope no one is offended by the following statement).>>> Combine this tendency with the fact that she is a guidance counselor, and we get this weird combination: An emotionally controlled person who has been schooled in the touchy feely-pat yourself on the back- give yourself a gold star or a trophy-"I have an amazing story" persona. I think she has a need (on some level of her own psyche) to turn this tragedy into a something that she not only survived, but thrived after. I think that she believes that if she tells herself (and others) enough times that she has been "an amazing survivor" that she can be just that. But, IMO, the fact that see needs to pump herself up with the moniker of "amazing" (survivor) just proves to me that she's not quite there yet. Maybe it is a matter of professional pride...Doctor, heal thy self...how can a counselor be in need of counseling? So, to prove that she doesn't, she over-compensates by spinning it into her "amazing story".

There have been signs of someone who is a bit narcissistic. I will agree with that. I have seen some, and next week I'll probably see more. But, I choose to think that there is more than just some narcissism that makes Kelsey behave the way she does. Is it manipulation? IDK. They've certainly edited her in way that makes her look like she is trying to manipulate CS with her widow story just so that he will give her a rose. Or she fakes a panic attack just so she can get a rose. I'm just throwing out different theories. I really have absolutely no idea who Kelsey is or why she does what she does. All of this is simply my speculations.

lurker11 wrote:
northernviewer wrote:I'd bet good money that the Kelsey we see now, is the same Kelsey she was before her husband died.

I agree... Also, Kelsey has her accomplishments listed in her husband's obituary as much as his are. I'm assuming she wrote it as it sounds like her way of writing, and it is odd.

Link: http://m.tulsaworld.com/archives/sanderson-patrick-poe/article_f94957f8-5a1e-5515-adbd-aed357b6f99f.html?mode=jqm

MiaHawk wrote:
lurker11 wrote:
northernviewer wrote:I'd bet good money that the Kelsey we see now, is the same Kelsey she was before her husband died.

I agree... Also, Kelsey has her accomplishments listed in her husband's obituary as much as his are. I'm assuming she wrote it as it sounds like her way of writing, and it is odd.

Link: http://m.tulsaworld.com/archives/sanderson-patrick-poe/article_f94957f8-5a1e-5515-adbd-aed357b6f99f.html?mode=jqm

I agree that that obituary is very unusual. Kelsey's accomplishment is listed BEFORE Sanderson's.

The cynical side of me wondered (after I googled her husband and saw that he had been a musician) if Kelsey didn't mention her husband by full name (first and last) in order to drum up sales of his music and royalties that would go to her. I realize that that was very cynical of me. I guess the 'angel Mia' and the 'devil Mia' are constantly at battle.

lurker11 wrote:It would have been a good testament to his character to say "He was supportive in every endeavor his loved ones undertook." But to actually tout her degree before even saying what his career was seems selfish.

All these posts bring up very good points. Mia your story really touched me. I remember my bad reaction to the way Emily told her story and someone here told me that she had to relay her story the same way each and every time to just get through it.

The obituary says far more about her character than the MF slice and dice. She made it about her, not him. I think there is a deeper mental health issue with Kelsey.

I just have stopped feeling sorry for people who decide to go on tv and exploit their sad stories especially as we saw on this season as a last ditch effort to get a rose. Using the tragic deaths of people you loved as a tool for buying more tv time is reprehensible.

Also, I also remember Tiffany from RW I. They do edit you, but they can not put words in your mouth, they can only use what you actually say. Also your tone of voice is all your own.

by **Norcalgal** Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:58 pm

Mia, I always find your posts thought provoking. This one included. There are always 2 sides (at least) to every 'amazing' story and you have laid out a good possibility for Kelsey's. We only know her through editing and can only guess or estimate what's real.

by Kashathediva Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:29 pm

This per Stuck:
"I just have stopped feeling sorry for people who decide to go on tv and exploit their sad stories especially as we saw on this season as a last ditch effort to get a rose. Using the tragic deaths of people you loved as a tool for buying more tv time is reprehensible."

Nothing more to add.
The show takes pride on jumping the shark.
It wasn't that many years ago it was edgy for Bevin to share her "secret" of being "gasp" wait for it---being "divorced".
I wouldn't be at all surprised of the tragic edgy turn of events to come in future seasons. ("I was paroled from prison for killing my last husband It's great to be dating again".)

by Guest Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:06 pm

I actually worry that one of these seasons there will be contestant who's portrayed to maximum effect as one of the "crazy" ones who can't handle the social media reaction and something bad could really come of it.

That has occurred to me this season with Ashley S, Juelia and now Kelsey. There is a line between a funny/drama type of contestant whose socially awk or a self-absorbed attention seeker for viewers to snark on and someone who might have deep rooted issues and not be able to handle millions of people watching, laughing at and judging them. There's a fine line to me that the show is really walking the edge of and may have crossed this season. What happened to the psych tests?

I hope they do have good counsellors for contestants leaving the show, and even while the show is airing, if they're going to show stuff like this in in the way they do. In our age of mass, anonymous and brutal feedback, I do worry it could result in it's own tragedy some day.

by KB_Mom Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:22 pm

Kashathediva wrote:This per Stuck:
"I just have stopped feeling sorry for people who decide to go on tv and exploit their sad stories especially as we saw on this season as a last ditch effort to get a rose. Using the tragic deaths of people you loved as a tool for buying more tv time is reprehensible."

Nothing more to add.
The show takes pride on jumping the shark.
It wasn't that many years ago it was edgy for Bevin to share her "secret" of being "gasp" wait for it---being "divorced".
I wouldn't be at all surprised of the tragic edgy turn of events to come in future seasons. ("I was paroled from prison for killing my last husband It's great to be dating again".)

My head hurts when I think of the "edgy" stories TPTB are capable of. no no

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