Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #2

mamahamme wrote:Yea but look who said it. Douche bag of the century. Even Chris Harrison in not so many words couldn't believe who JPG turned out to be. Just an observation..

I don't think, IMOAA, that JPG is the douche bag of the century. Even Nikki put that issue to rest a week ago. CH, on the other hand, is doing his best for a supporting role nomination.
CH is at best a tool used often by TPTB. At worst he is a rotten pound of flesh put up to for sale during season 1 and still rotting on the shelf.

Ash2214 wrote:Sorry I'm a little behind, but what's wrong with Josh's family dynamic? In all seriousness, it appears he gave them up for a few months for Andi. What did they see the Murray's once in a four month span? He was seeing the Dorfman's more than once a week, but he never got to see his own. That shows me that he was willing to "cut the cord" a bit for Andi. Hell, he went to a Dorfman family wedding and skipped out on another very important family event that he should have been at.

I'm sorry, but MM had a brain tumor. As much as a person already loves their mother, I'm sure that's even multiplied now knowing he could have lost her to cancer. With the lifestyle that all three children have, it appears MM had to do a lot and gave up a lot to support her kids, which is what a mother does.

I know that personally, I want my future children to be close to my family and to my future husband's family. I'd feel extremely lucky and blessed if my kids had another set of grandparents like the Murray's plus my own family.

I totally agree with this!

Laudergirl wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:Sorry I'm a little behind, but what's wrong with Josh's family dynamic? In all seriousness, it appears he gave them up for a few months for Andi. What did they see the Murray's once in a four month span? He was seeing the Dorfman's more than once a week, but he never got to see his own. That shows me that he was willing to "cut the cord" a bit for Andi. Hell, he went to a Dorfman family wedding and skipped out on another very important family event that he should have been at.

I'm sorry, but MM had a brain tumor. As much as a person already loves their mother, I'm sure that's even multiplied now knowing he could have lost her to cancer. With the lifestyle that all three children have, it appears MM had to do a lot and gave up a lot to support her kids, which is what a mother does.

I know that personally, I want my future children to be close to my family and to my future husband's family. I'd feel extremely lucky and blessed if my kids had another set of grandparents like the Murray's plus my own family.

I totally agree with this!  

You're right, he did put her first for awhile but there was something going on there for Andi's only fav'd tweet in Dec being that Josh loves his mom more than anything, her included I suppose in retrospect. Anyway, Josh seems really happy with his mom/family and I'm sure both will find their right person eventually.

Alanna wrote:Yes, there is something markedly off about the Josh family dynamics imo. Josh could somehow just never appropriately navigate the love and attention he was supposed to give his future wife and his family, notably his mom imo. It's best exemplified by his mom showing up this weekend to attend all the events instead of Andi. If it works for them all, that's great, but I understand why Andi couldn't/wouldn't/didn't correctly fit into the picture as things stood.

I agree and first saw it with the "join us" tweet from MM. She doesn't get to dictate that, it was between Josh and Andi to figure out.  She should have stayed out of it imo. Andi doesn't have a personality type that would navigate that family dynamic with a lot of grace. Unfortunately, she may have tested Josh's loyalty and lost. I can see that some boundaries were probably needed, but wouldn't be surprised if Andi's way of working it out caused a lot of heartache and conflict for Josh and his family.

Costiesgirl wrote:I'm not sure if they got along or not but I just have to say if I had a viewing party for my sons engagement and in front of all my family and friends it came out that his soon to be bride slept with someone else the night before,,,, nope never happen we would never be close. As a mother I could not fathom being as embarrassed as MM was and I might play nice with the bride but I could not be friends with someone who disrespected my son like that. I don't buy the I didn't know if it was Josh or Nick at that point. Guess what tv show or not if I'm not sure which guy I like I don't sleep with either one, I have more respect for myself. That's why I think we see MM rushing to Josh's side and to announce stuff, she is probably beyond relieved that there done

I can understand that MM was mortified at her ATFR party. She's done well on SM given the situation. It would be hard to overcome, but if it was my son, I would suck it up and do my best, especially if they ended up getting married. Funny thing is, I think MM hand picked Andi for Josh which is why he loved her almost immediately. Andi was in trouble w/o MM's stamp of approval, which may have been hard for MM to hide after what was revealed at ATFR. I agree that she is probably very relieved it's over.

Ash2214 wrote:Sorry I'm a little behind, but what's wrong with Josh's family dynamic? In all seriousness, it appears he gave them up for a few months for Andi. What did they see the Murray's once in a four month span? He was seeing the Dorfman's more than once a week, but he never got to see his own. That shows me that he was willing to "cut the cord" a bit for Andi. Hell, he went to a Dorfman family wedding and skipped out on another very important family event that he should have been at.

I'm sorry, but MM had a brain tumor. As much as a person already loves their mother, I'm sure that's even multiplied now knowing he could have lost her to cancer. With the lifestyle that all three children have, it appears MM had to do a lot and gave up a lot to support her kids, which is what a mother does.

I know that personally, I want my future children to be close to my family and to my future husband's family. I'd feel extremely lucky and blessed if my kids had another set of grandparents like the Murray's plus my own family.

Ash, don't have a heart attack, but we might be agreeing again. This is a great post and I share your views completely.

Kashathediva wrote:

Costiesgirl wrote:Somewhere Hy is still crying that he's lost vip sideline access to UGA games and having a former UGA quarterback in his extended family. Andi really messed up this time

This discussion brought up several thoughts for me all IMOAA.
Parental love towards a child is different than all others. This does not mean that is supersedes all others.
IMO the love you have for third parties, your spouse should be first and foremost. The love you have for your children, no one can attempt to explain that deep feeling. No one will ever love a child, with that degree of unselfishness as a parent(IMO only). Thirdly is the love you have for a parent. Of course these are personal and vary and are just my opinion and I am discussing "healthy relationships".
I believe in healthy relationships, parents and children do feel this way.
Hy should not have had the kind of influence over MEandI to warrant her looking back over her shoulder. IMO, If he did, I hope MEandI learned a valuable lesson.
In discussing the relationship between Josh and his family, from what I was able to gather both on sm and the show, it was clear as bell. If MEandI was unable to deal with that kind of closeness, there is a prayer. It's called the Serenity Prayer.  MM summed up the family dynamics well, "join us".  Accept it for what it is. If you can't and can not live with it and/or change, it's not going to go well.

Kasha, well said. Andi did know what she was getting, if it doesn't work for it is okay, but he shouldn't have to give up his family. To me Hy is the toxic parent. He needs to let Andi be her own person and teach her to actually be strong, not "strong" but giving into what daddy thinks is right.

Alanna wrote:

Laudergirl wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:Sorry I'm a little behind, but what's wrong with Josh's family dynamic? In all seriousness, it appears he gave them up for a few months for Andi. What did they see the Murray's once in a four month span? He was seeing the Dorfman's more than once a week, but he never got to see his own. That shows me that he was willing to "cut the cord" a bit for Andi. Hell, he went to a Dorfman family wedding and skipped out on another very important family event that he should have been at.

I'm sorry, but MM had a brain tumor. As much as a person already loves their mother, I'm sure that's even multiplied now knowing he could have lost her to cancer. With the lifestyle that all three children have, it appears MM had to do a lot and gave up a lot to support her kids, which is what a mother does.

I know that personally, I want my future children to be close to my family and to my future husband's family. I'd feel extremely lucky and blessed if my kids had another set of grandparents like the Murray's plus my own family.

I totally agree with this!  

You're right, he did put her first for awhile but there was something going on there for Andi's only fav'd tweet in Dec being that Josh loves his mom more than anything, her included I suppose in retrospect. Anyway, Josh seems really happy with his mom/family and I'm sure both will find their right person eventually.

Yes he did and maybe he eventually realized he wanted to compromise. It's not okay to shut out your family completely just to keep you girlfriend, fiance, or wife happy. Relationships are about compromise, which in regards to his family, it didn't really seem Andi was necessarily willing to do. They saw the Murray's twice in about a five month period. Heck, they spent the major holiday's with the Dorfman's. Would they have spent an early Thanksgiving with the Murray's if they weren't already in town for Josh's brother? I'm not so sure about that.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but the Dorfman's are Jewish. Wouldn't it have been nice of Andi to want to spend Christmas with the Murray's esepcially since the Dorfman's had Thanksgiving? I wonder how Josh felt spending Christmas Eve and Christmas Day in Las Vegas on the slot machines and shopping. Josh really seemed to cater to Andi and her family and there's nothing wrong with that. I liked seeing how close it appears Josh got with the Dorfman's, but at the same time, it wasn't fair to him that he was seemingly cut off from his family until November. Maybe he resented Andi for not allowing him to still be close to his family and maybe Andi resented him for still missing his family even though he had her and her family. Who knows.

Let me add in my own personal situation, I let my children and their significants lead their own life first.
It is not my place to offer an opinion, advice or such even when asked. It takes me a lot to go there. It is a privilege to be a valuable part of their lives and not a right.

Bringing this to this forum as someone nicely posted it in the other one
http://latravelmagazine.com/the-power-of-love-travel-with-the-bachelorettes-andi-dorfman-josh-murray/


My thoughts again too by Costiesgirl Today at 3:50 pm
Josh: I talked to her dad the very first time I met them in the Dominican, and he was like, ‘What’s going to happen? This is all the glitz and glamour now, there are all these things, but this isn’t real life.’ And I was like, ‘I’m glad this isn’t real life, I know what real life is about and I can’t wait to get back to just relaxing and being myself, I don’t need all this stuff to make me happy.’

And this is exactly why I think it didn't work, fame wasn't his real life want or need and it was hers, funny it was Hy that asked the question

Alanna wrote:

Laudergirl wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:Sorry I'm a little behind, but what's wrong with Josh's family dynamic? In all seriousness, it appears he gave them up for a few months for Andi. What did they see the Murray's once in a four month span? He was seeing the Dorfman's more than once a week, but he never got to see his own. That shows me that he was willing to "cut the cord" a bit for Andi. Hell, he went to a Dorfman family wedding and skipped out on another very important family event that he should have been at.

I'm sorry, but MM had a brain tumor. As much as a person already loves their mother, I'm sure that's even multiplied now knowing he could have lost her to cancer. With the lifestyle that all three children have, it appears MM had to do a lot and gave up a lot to support her kids, which is what a mother does.

I know that personally, I want my future children to be close to my family and to my future husband's family. I'd feel extremely lucky and blessed if my kids had another set of grandparents like the Murray's plus my own family.

I totally agree with this!  

You're right, he did put her first for awhile but there was something going on there for Andi's only fav'd tweet in Dec being that Josh loves his mom more than anything, her included I suppose in retrospect. Anyway, Josh seems really happy with his mom/family and I'm sure both will find their right person eventually.

Great discussion everyone!

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, the idea that rather than fitting into each other's lives it is important to blend them.  The couple benefits from managing their time with respective family and friends in a way that honors what their partner is accustom to while still keeping the priority on "couple" time. As long as each partner values the happiness of their significant other then it just becomes a matter of socializing rather than "obligation" or compromise. 

About Josh being at the Av. event - of course!  It's a work commitment.  Most people don't stop functioning in their work life because of the break up of a 6 month relationship. Feel emotional at times, yes; listen to heartbreak tunes while alone, yes; maybe even feel relieved about ending the relationship before it started getting too nasty/hurtful.

Also, I don't think recent pics of Josh and family have anything to do with Andi.  They are simply "there" for a son who has lots of fans and whose break up could only be made public so they have every reason, knowing he is now a public figure, to show they support him in his mutual break up.

Costiesgirl wrote:Bringing this to this forum as someone nicely posted it in the other one
http://latravelmagazine.com/the-power-of-love-travel-with-the-bachelorettes-andi-dorfman-josh-murray/


My thoughts again too by Costiesgirl Today at 3:50 pm
Josh: I talked to her dad the very first time I met them in the Dominican, and he was like, ‘What’s going to happen? This is all the glitz and glamour now, there are all these things, but this isn’t real life.’ And I was like, ‘I’m glad this isn’t real life, I know what real life is about and I can’t wait to get back to just relaxing and being myself, I don’t need all this stuff to make me happy.’

And this is exactly why I think it didn't work, fame wasn't his real life want or need and it was hers, funny it was Hy that asked the question

Sadly that interview says a lot about their differences to me. Josh's first trip abroad to Israel, most like to get to know his Jewish roots. Andi was a graduation fun trip to Italy. Even the five year plan, Andi starts with the kids and home in ATL, but then gets to her real dream, fashion designer. She was trying hard to want what Josh did, but she knew she couldn't do it and used the excuse of "We talk about having kids, but I want to feel like I can do it all." She knew she couldn't be what Josh wanted and what she wanted to be. It must have been very hard trying to be that.

Even long term goals. She wants to be a famous fashion designer, he just wants to do his Advocare well. Reading this article to me really shows that down deep at the core, they just didn't really want the same life. No amount of love will overcome that.

Kashathediva wrote:Let me add in my own personal situation, I let my children and their significants lead their own life first.
It is not my place to offer an opinion, advice or such even when asked. It takes me a lot to go there. It is a privilege to be a valuable part of their lives and not a right.

Great Post!

Costiesgirl wrote:Bringing this to this forum as someone nicely posted it in the other one
http://latravelmagazine.com/the-power-of-love-travel-with-the-bachelorettes-andi-dorfman-josh-murray/


My thoughts again too by Costiesgirl Today at 3:50 pm
Josh: I talked to her dad the very first time I met them in the Dominican, and he was like, ‘What’s going to happen? This is all the glitz and glamour now, there are all these things, but this isn’t real life.’ And I was like, ‘I’m glad this isn’t real life, I know what real life is about and I can’t wait to get back to just relaxing and being myself, I don’t need all this stuff to make me happy.’

And this is exactly why I think it didn't work, fame wasn't his real life want or need and it was hers, funny it was Hy that asked the question

Here's another difference IMO why this relationship wouldn't work. When people speak about helping people, they don't speak about the power they have, they talk about helping people, end of story. Josh speaks about having a responsibility when God gives him so much and he chooses to help people.

Andi: People use their power in so many different ways, whether it’s to be famous or to be rich… [and] that power in a funny way is very powerful, so why not use it to promote things that you really believe in? It’s amazing what you can do with a sense of power, even if it’s only short term. Just to do better for people is an incredible feeling.