Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

mindless wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

mindless wrote:I just watched this week's episode and despite Nikki's flaws, I can't help siding with her a bit. I don't think JPG is a horrible person or anything, I just don't think he's relationship material. He might be for someone he's madly in love with, if he's capable of falling in love that is, but that person isn't Nikki. From what I've seen of his interactions, he just seems impossible to talk to. Like really talk to, about serious matters. He's dismissive and starts talking over you. As much as I think Nikki should've spoken her mind to him since the beginning, I can also see how that might've been difficult. He prefers to keep things light and superficial, and while that might make him fun company, it certainly makes it difficult to have a "cerebral connection" as Sharleen put it. It's pretty hard to have a romantic relationship without one, unless you're kind of dim. You can tell how Nikki's been stuck alone with her feeling and doubts, building up resentment. Now, not only the public but also all these people they've been living with for weeks are calling BS on JPG's feelings, so it's pretty hard to stay in denial.

I don't know if JPG was hurt because he feels strongly about Nikki or because he feels strongly about being questioned. Or if he even was hurt. I think he saw that Nikki was heading towards dumping him on TV, so he panicked and started playing the victim. He knows Nikki cares for him, so pulling at her heartstrings was the obvious thing to do. I was pretty put off by Dr. Jenn jumping to his defence again. What feelings does Nikki need to acknowledge exactly? He does NOT love her and she just needs him to stop dancing around the issue. His "love" is NOT real, even if he did like her a lot. I can see how it would be hurtful to be called fake (which she didn't even do), but she was just calling a spade a spade. She didn't sign up for a lifetime of pseudo-love, so what exactly was she supposed to do? At least we've seen her try to clear things up and build an understanding, but he's making it impossible by giving her nothing except excuses. At least she's trying to crack the surface, while he's happy just skating along. I find him infuriating too and I'm just a viewer. I'm so glad she wisened up and dumped him!

I am a total JPG apologist, but he reminds me of my dad.  My dad could be serious when it was really necessary, but in general he just was pleasant.  For him it came from living through the great depression and seeing real pain.  To him, most things were not that bad and he had an amazing faith that God would take care.  

I don't know if this is JPG or not.  I also think that JPG cared about Nikki, but didn't love her.  I know that I am not like everyone else here, but I do believe love can grow from caring and friendship.  It has happened to me.  The bachelor is unrealistic to me, I would take a slow developing love or a quick spark any day and I think that is why it has such a low success rate.

(snip)

There's nothing wrong with being easygoing and avoiding unnecessary drama. However, the issues between Nikki and JPG were pretty major and fundamental, and the fact that they couldn't have a straightforward conversation about them without him shutting her down by playing the victim is just sad. It seemed like he'd rather just have fun with his new friends than actually address Nikki's concerns, even though they're supposed to be in therapy. She was feeling insecure in the relationship for a reason. It's not because she's weak and insecure by default, it's because she couldn't get any straight answers from him. I can't help sympathizing, because I've been in a long-distance relationship that was going nowhere and I was forced to pull the plug because I couldn't get any answers one way or another. The situation really ate away at my self-esteem and made me miserable. It's so easy to say in hindsight that I should've just cut my losses as soon as I wasn't happy anymore, but it's easier said than done. It's far easier to dump someone when they've given you a clear reason like cheating or some other form of betrayal. But when that someone is a nice person who claims to really care about you, you're constantly doubting yourself and scared that you're throwing away something that could've been great. You blame yourself for sabotaging the relationship by preparing for the worst, even though you're really just listening to your gut. I'm speaking from experience when I say that there's really nothing worse than not knowing where you stand. It gives birth to all kinds of thoughts and when you can't talk them through straight away they eventually take over. That's why if you really care about someone, you should do all in your power to make things as clear as possible for them. I am not a fan of dancing around or avoiding issues in order to spare someone's feelings. That usually has the opposite effect. I'm still not seeing real caring in JPG's actions.

I also think that love can grow from friendship and I actually prefer it that way, but that usually happens when you get along great with someone and have a mental connection that turns physical and emotional. That was never the case with these two. They started out being attracted to each other, but never really got to the point of understanding each other or even liking each other from what we've seen on this show. The friendship wasn't there, so it couldn't have been the foundation no matter how long they waited. Being in a LDR makes it even more difficult, because you don't truly know how you fit into each other's lives and you have the added pressure of knowing you have to relocate in order to really be together. It's hard to just go with the flow when you know you're simply wasting your time unless you relocate eventually. You're constantly thinking of what you would be giving up, so you have to really be sure that the relathionship is worth it. Nikki's at the age where she probably wants to settle down and it was killing her not knowing where things were headed. I can't blame her. We don't really know how many times she tried to have those difficult conversations with JPG and he just dodged them. It's hard to have them over the phone and with limited time face to face, you'd rather just enjoy it instead of arguing. I believe she did all she could and will find Mr. Right soon enough. JPG on the other hand... well perhaps he'll find some Latina in Miami at some point.  

Amberish wrote:^^^ I'm pretty sure Dr. Jenn said that, in her opinion, Juan Pablo is in love with Nikki --- in the American sense --- during the previous to last episode. Also, in the immediate previous episode, she said that since Nikki is no longer focusing on Juan Pablo telling her he loves her, Nikki is now processing to determine if Juan Pablo is the right man for her.

Dr. Jenn also indicated that Nikki and Juan Pablo were behind the other couples and had a lot of work to in the next few days (two episodes). Then, both Nikki and Juan Pablo reaffirmed their commitment to work on making it work. It'll be interesting to see what happens on CT coming up.

Since the last episode aired, we now know Nikki dumped Juan Pablo. Perhaps this is an indication that she figured out he wasn't the right man for her or the man she thought he was. However, given they way she is telling the world, I'd say Nikki is angry. It could be she is angry at herself for being loyal to him (to a fault) or angry at him for learning he deceived her (for example, cheating) or has been otherwise deceptive. No matter what has happened, no doubt we'll eventually learn.

Just because Juan Pablo is a lousy boyfriend, doesn't mean he's a lousy human being or a lousy father. It only means he sucks at relationships, which, given what we know about him, is something that is staring us in the face.

Amberish wrote:Actually, from watching CT we know Nikki's frustration had to do with not being able to scratch the surface with Juan because he pushes back and doesn't  commit to anything. Remember he said he struggles with relationships? Remember that (inane) story of his best friend dating his ex girl friend two months after they split up.

Exactly who has said Juan Pablo is good in relationships, because we've only heard the opposite --- from everyone that knows him that has spoken about it. Who has ever said he's good at it?

Amberish wrote:Actually, from watching CT we know Nikki's frustration had to do with not being able to scratch the surface with Juan because he pushes back and doesn't  commit to anything. Remember he said he struggles with relationships? Remember that (inane) story of his best friend dating his ex girl friend two months after they split up.

Exactly who has said Juan Pablo is good in relationships, because we've only heard the opposite --- from everyone that knows him that has spoken about it. Who has ever said he's good at it?

stuckinsc wrote:
Good post mindless (which by the way, you totally are not!).  I just think they are both to blame.  As we saw with the fight about Andi, when Nikki was done she was done.  I honestly don't think either one of them was truly listening to the other.  

To me JPG's stance is actually similar to Josh's with the ILY.  Josh told Andi he wasn't going to say ILY again until it was the woman he wanted to marry.  I actually think JPG feels that same way, but isn't saying it as clearly.  I respect both of them for that.  In Josh's case he seems to have fallen in love, then again as you pointed out he and Andi are right there with each other all the time.  

I think Nikki and JPG were in like or lust.  I don't think Nikki actually loved JPG outside the bubble.  I think after AFTR she was really pissed with him, rightfully so, I was okay with his behavior because I thought he would have been smart enough to clear it with her first, and I think at that point it was more about her getting the ILY from him and proving everyone wrong.  

Nikki as a nurse if she really wanted to could take a six month sabbatical and work in another location.  I have seen it done and most hospitals for their really good nurses are willing to do this rather than lose their good talents.  She could have gone to Miami or even LA to see if it would work in person.  I don't blame her for not doing, because I think she really didn't want to be with him, but she also could have pushed and done more.

I see two people who probably did have affection, but knew it wasn't going to last and were attempting to make each other the guilty party.  JPG was doing it with Nikki, but she did it with him.  He won't say ILY, he is so mean.  Nope he is honest, just because you don't like the honestly too bad.  When you beg and beg for something the way Nikki was begging for the ILY then you need to ask yourself is this worth it?  On that point Dr. Jenn was completely right.

whit90 wrote:

Amberish wrote:Actually, from watching CT we know Nikki's frustration had to do with not being able to scratch the surface with Juan because he pushes back and doesn't  commit to anything. Remember he said he struggles with relationships? Remember that (inane) story of his best friend dating his ex girl friend two months after they split up.

Exactly who has said Juan Pablo is good in relationships, because we've only heard the opposite --- from everyone that knows him that has spoken about it. Who has ever said he's good at it?

His last two girlfriends before he was ever on the Bach said he was a gentleman, sweet, fun, and a caring man. They said that the only reason that they broke it off or he did was because of all of his traveling. I have not heard one girl that he has dated said anything bad about him.

Bet2Win wrote:After watching CT, Nikki seems to get pissed at most everything.

She's high maintenance, all the way imo.