Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

mindless wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:
I will say, love and feelings can grow and change.  I think he has genuine affection and caring for Nikki, he just isn't to love yet.  If she needs love now, then she should get out.  If she can be happy with what he gives and give it the opportunity to grow then great.  I will say that it is harder for love to grow over a distance, but it surely can.

I also think JPG being the kind of person he is was a terrible choice for the bachelor.  You have to be willing to love quick and fast to be on the bachelor and so his hesitance was never, ever going to work in their formula.  For me, I have taken longer than a year to fall in love.  My husband and I had known and dated on and off for over a year when we decided we clicked and wanted to take a chance.  For me I knew I loved him three months after that, it took him another three to get there.  In that time, I moved to be with him, even before his ILY.  I knew that his asking me to move for him was his way of letting me know that this was forever for him too.  

We are obviously not reality tv people, but these are still real people and not every real person falls in love after having spent less than a week together, while others know right away.  Neither is wrong or right, they are just different.  I also wonder how many of these people who come off shows like the bachelor and such really love each other or have fallen in love, but that over time it grows into real deep love?  I think JPG is the kind of guy who doesn't say ILY until it is the real deep thing.  Falling in love to him isn't ILY.  He adores Nikki, but he isn't committed for life to Nikki.  Sorry, but I find nothing wrong with wanting to wait to say ILY until you know you really want to be with that person.

I'm not sure why you're telling me this, since I agree with most things you said. I don't think JPG should lie about loving Nikki or rush to say those words. It took me quite a while to fall in love with my SO too. Much longer than it did for him. I just think they both need to be clear with where they're at and what they want instead of burying their heads in the sand and hoping everything will magically sort itself out. JPG telling her he doesn't love her yet is a good start. He just needs to quit with the language/culture argument, because they're both talking about the same thing. Coming into this she was clearly thinking he does love her and that they'll start planning a move soon, while he was still at the "we'll see where this goes" stage. I have no problem with people moving before hearing ILY, if there's nothing major holding them back and they're confident about their commitment. However, that doesn't apply to these two. As far as I know he hasn't asked her to move, which would show commitment, and they both have a lot to lose if things don't work out. I think moving would be far too stressful in such an unsure stage. I hope Nikki realizes that too now that she knows he doesn't return her feelings yet. Though I sometimes wonder if Nikki truly loves him either. She might just be in love with the idea of them together.

Sorry, I wasn't directing it towards you just replying in general.

I do think JPG has strong feelings and to him the fact that he isn't willing to say ILY until it is forever love may seem like a Venezuelan thing to him. I wonder if he actually thought Nikki wasn't in love with him either but was more te quiero too? I know that sometimes I hear people tell me they love someone really fast and I will give a little eye roll and think, nope you are infatuated and in lust and really like them, but nope in one week you do not know that person enough to love. I have been wrong with this, but I wonder if JPG feels that way about the quick ILYs?

stuckinsc wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't directing it towards you just replying in general.  

I do think JPG has strong feelings and to him the fact that he isn't willing to say ILY until it is forever love may seem like a Venezuelan thing to him.  I wonder if he actually thought Nikki wasn't in love with him either but was more te quiero too?  I know that sometimes I hear people tell me they love someone really fast and I will give a little eye roll and think, nope you are infatuated and in lust and really like them, but nope in one week you do not know that person enough to love.  I have been wrong with this, but I wonder if JPG feels that way about the quick ILYs?

Yeah, that's a good point. I doubt he took any of the love declarations on TB very seriously. But I think he's mistaken if he thinks they're an American thing. They're a Bachelor thing. The contestants are always pretty much forced to say ILY if they want to be the the last one standing, and I think many manage to convince themselves that they really feel it. Then it's kind of hard to take it back once you've put it out there. Especially when your relationship is public. Nikki may very well have felt like she said it too soon, but there's not much she can do about it. JPG still holding out is just rubbing it in.

I don't hate any of these contestants. Hate is way too strong of word for someone I only know from tv. I don't like JPG. He's definitely not my cup of tea. Some of the things that he's said are hard to watch and quite sad and that's being acknowledged in the fan thread as well. If he moves away from his daughter my opinion of him will be much lower, but still not hate. I don't care enough about him to work up that sort of emotion. I'm actually surprised I'm watching the show, but it's sort of fascinating at times. I'm curious to find out about what's going on with Jenna. I may even check out a previous season.  

I never cared that JPG didn't propose or say I love you. He should move at a pace right for him. I'm just not impressed by him because of the way he's handled multiple things. At ATFR, his focus was on sticking it to TPTB. He was angry that day, probably about Dancing with The Stars and Nikki seemed all but forgotten. I was upset for her. Her body language was screaming for him to help her. He wanted to make the point that the show's expectations are silly, but he missed the mark and instead looked like a db for not being responsive to Nikki. That should have been a fairly easy point to make because a lot of people agree with him on that. The whole premise of dating or sleeping with someone last week and getting engaged to another the next week is pretty crazy. If you go that route fine, but if you don't it's understandable. I wish he had made that point and honored Nikki. He had awhile to think about it. He responded to her "I love you" with an "I like you a lot" on national television. So.. common sense should tell him to do what he can to build her up and make her feel better about everything on ATFR, but he doesn't get stuff like that.

That public humiliation seems to be driving a lot of the issues for Nikki, yet he piles more on. In general, he's made some thoughtless, hurtful comments and as mindless said, dances around the subject. I thought/wish she was stronger. I cringe watching her beg for love. This is a little off topic, but there's a girl my son knows that started a youtube channel in middle school. It became really popular and she ended up graduating early, went to UT, not sure if she's still there or what, but anyhow my daughter watches her videos sometimes. The other day she was watching one while I was cooking dinner and I actually thought.. hey, Nikki could use this 19 year old's advice! Here's the link if anyone's interested.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wQrNG4XrrA If you have a teenage girl, she may be interested in some of the other topics. It's generally pretty solid advice for girls.

The human lie detector lady made a good point last night. She said JP may feel like he's giving 100% and Nikki can still feel like she's only receiving 70%. That may sum it up. I'm sure the show will end on a high note. He'll probably say I love you, but they are just 2 very different people. I don't believe in the whole opposites attract notion. They don't get each other and more than anything, we want to be understood.

grace8136 wrote:I don't hate any of these contestants. Hate is way too strong of word for someone I only know from tv. I don't like JPG. He's definitely not my cup of tea. Some of the things that he's said are hard to watch and quite sad and that's being acknowledged in the fan thread as well. If he moves away from his daughter my opinion of him will be much lower, but still not hate. I don't care enough about him to work up that sort of emotion. I'm actually surprised I'm watching the show, but it's sort of fascinating at times. I'm curious to find out about what's going on with Jenna. I may even check out a previous season.  

I never cared that JPG didn't propose or say I love you. He should move at a pace right for him. I'm just not impressed by him because of the way he's handled multiple things. At ATFR, his focus was on sticking it to TPTB. He was angry that day, probably about Dancing with The Stars and Nikki seemed all but forgotten. I was upset for her. Her body language was screaming for him to help her. He wanted to make the point that the show's expectations are silly, but he missed the mark and instead looked like a db for not being responsive to Nikki. That should have been a fairly easy point to make because a lot of people agree with him on that. The whole premise of dating or sleeping with someone last week and getting engaged to another the next week is pretty crazy. If you go that route fine, but if you don't it's understandable. I wish he had made that point and honored Nikki. He had awhile to think about it. He responded to her "I love you" with an "I like you a lot" on national television. So.. common sense should tell him to do what he can to build her up and make her feel better about everything on ATFR, but he doesn't get stuff like that.

That public humiliation seems to be driving a lot of the issues for Nikki, yet he piles more on. In general, he's made some thoughtless, hurtful comments and as mindless said, dances around the subject. I thought/wish she was stronger. I cringe watching her beg for love. This is a little off topic, but there's a girl my son knows that started a youtube channel in middle school. It became really popular and she ended up graduating early, went to UT, not sure if she's still there or what, but anyhow my daughter watches her videos sometimes. The other day she was watching one while I was cooking dinner and I actually thought.. hey, Nikki could use this 19 year old's advice! Here's the link if anyone's interested.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wQrNG4XrrA If you have a teenage girl, she may be interested in some of the other topics. It's generally pretty solid advice for girls.

The human lie detector lady made a good point last night. She said JP may feel like he's giving 100% and Nikki can still feel like she's only receiving 70%. That may sum it up. I'm sure the show will end on a high note. He'll probably say I love you, but they are just 2 very different people. I don't believe in the whole opposites attract notion. They don't get each other and more than anything, we want to be understood.

Grace it is a great video. Is she UT as in Texas (my alma mater) or Tennessee or Toronto? Just curious.

I guess this is a pet peeve of mine. We always complain about how people treat someone. The only way you can control how someone treats you is to tell them what you want and need, if they are unwilling to that, then you must decide if that is good enough for you or not. On the show the bachelor or bachelorette it is different and I get that, but once you leave the show to keep holding on and not telling the other person what you need or want and then complaining when you don't get it is not okay. Now once you tell them, you must decide, do I want to accept this or not, but if you do, then in my opinion, you have to stop blaming them for your accepting what you have. That is your choice, if you don't demand better and accept less, that isn't on the other person, it is all on you. I have done this, it wasn't my ex-husbands fault it was mine. When you accept less than you want or need from someone then it is only you to blame. In the long run it usually doesn't make either person happy either if one continues to resent the other.

Every episode I watch makes me think they should just cut their losses and move on. IMO, I don't think Nikki will ever feel like she's enough and that they on the same page. That will kill their relationship eventually. And JuanPa is just annoying to me. He plays to the camera all the time, talks to Nikki like she's a child, makes fun of her, etc. He's just not a good boyfriend IMO and the sooner she realizes this the better.

^^ I agree. I just don't get why they are together. The relationship seems to do nothing for either of them. Usually when 2 people aren't on the same page isn't that when you move on? I don't feel bad for Nikki, because I don't understand why she'd be sticking it out with him. What is she getting from this? She's a young beautiful girl, who can go find an actual Mr. Right. JP I think maybe has no idea what he wants, or who he wants or what a woman needs from a man in a relationship. Whatever his problem is here, it's just seems a bad relationship all around for both of them.

relaxing wrote: ^^ I agree.  I just don't get why they are together.  The relationship seems to do nothing for either of them.  Usually when 2 people aren't on the same page isn't that when you move on?  I don't feel bad for Nikki, because I don't understand why she'd be sticking it out with him.  What is she getting from this?  She's a young beautiful girl, who can go find an actual Mr. Right.  JP I think maybe has no idea what he wants, or who he wants or what a woman needs from a man in a relationship.  Whatever his problem is here, it's just seems a bad relationship all around for both of them.  

IMO, JP is a bit of a Peter Pan. He doesn't really want to grow up. His current lifestyle suits him just fine. Not a lot of responsibilities (the way his family unit functions, his responsibilities with Camilla are pretty much handled), he can go where he wants, pretty much when he wants and he gets to rub elbows with professional athletes. If it ain't broke, why fix it. I see nothing in JP that suggests he wants a whole lot more out of life.

I keep going back to Nikki and JP's LCD, and the conversation in which Nikki asks "What happens after all this is over." and JP responds "I go home and sleep in my own bed." The relationship doesn't seem to have taken much of a step forward from there.

relaxing wrote: ^^ I agree.  I just don't get why they are together.  The relationship seems to do nothing for either of them.  Usually when 2 people aren't on the same page isn't that when you move on?  I don't feel bad for Nikki, because I don't understand why she'd be sticking it out with him.  What is she getting from this?  She's a young beautiful girl, who can go find an actual Mr. Right.  JP I think maybe has no idea what he wants, or who he wants or what a woman needs from a man in a relationship.  Whatever his problem is here, it's just seems a bad relationship all around for both of them.  

Pretty simple, she's getting $50,000 & an out from the relationship. She'll be able to say "we tried" & it's over.

jojo47 wrote:

relaxing wrote: ^^ I agree.  I just don't get why they are together.  The relationship seems to do nothing for either of them.  Usually when 2 people aren't on the same page isn't that when you move on?  I don't feel bad for Nikki, because I don't understand why she'd be sticking it out with him.  What is she getting from this?  She's a young beautiful girl, who can go find an actual Mr. Right.  JP I think maybe has no idea what he wants, or who he wants or what a woman needs from a man in a relationship.  Whatever his problem is here, it's just seems a bad relationship all around for both of them.  

Pretty simple, she's getting $50,000 & an out from the relationship. She'll be able to say "we tried" & it's over.

I disagree. I think that's what he's getting out of the relationship; she, otoh, seems genuinely torn up to me, I don't think she's that great of an actress.

grace8136 wrote:I don't hate any of these contestants. Hate is way too strong of word for someone I only know from tv. I don't like JPG. He's definitely not my cup of tea. Some of the things that he's said are hard to watch and quite sad and that's being acknowledged in the fan thread as well. If he moves away from his daughter my opinion of him will be much lower, but still not hate. I don't care enough about him to work up that sort of emotion. I'm actually surprised I'm watching the show, but it's sort of fascinating at times. I'm curious to find out about what's going on with Jenna. I may even check out a previous season.  

I never cared that JPG didn't propose or say I love you. He should move at a pace right for him. I'm just not impressed by him because of the way he's handled multiple things. At ATFR, his focus was on sticking it to TPTB. He was angry that day, probably about Dancing with The Stars and Nikki seemed all but forgotten. I was upset for her. Her body language was screaming for him to help her. He wanted to make the point that the show's expectations are silly, but he missed the mark and instead looked like a db for not being responsive to Nikki. That should have been a fairly easy point to make because a lot of people agree with him on that. The whole premise of dating or sleeping with someone last week and getting engaged to another the next week is pretty crazy. If you go that route fine, but if you don't it's understandable. I wish he had made that point and honored Nikki. He had awhile to think about it. He responded to her "I love you" with an "I like you a lot" on national television. So.. common sense should tell him to do what he can to build her up and make her feel better about everything on ATFR, but he doesn't get stuff like that.

That public humiliation seems to be driving a lot of the issues for Nikki, yet he piles more on. In general, he's made some thoughtless, hurtful comments and as mindless said, dances around the subject. I thought/wish she was stronger. I cringe watching her beg for love. This is a little off topic, but there's a girl my son knows that started a youtube channel in middle school. It became really popular and she ended up graduating early, went to UT, not sure if she's still there or what, but anyhow my daughter watches her videos sometimes. The other day she was watching one while I was cooking dinner and I actually thought.. hey, Nikki could use this 19 year old's advice! Here's the link if anyone's interested.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wQrNG4XrrA If you have a teenage girl, she may be interested in some of the other topics. It's generally pretty solid advice for girls.

The human lie detector lady made a good point last night. She said JP may feel like he's giving 100% and Nikki can still feel like she's only receiving 70%. That may sum it up. I'm sure the show will end on a high note. He'll probably say I love you, but they are just 2 very different people. I don't believe in the whole opposites attract notion. They don't get each other and more than anything, we want to be understood.

I agree with you 100%. And the bolded--- I saw Nikki's "humiliation" on ATFR too, and I think all her "problems" so far, connected to that.

I've been watching the previous CT seasons for the last 3 weeks, that's why I'm pretty sure that this season will be the same---end on a high note!

Alanna wrote:

jojo47 wrote:

relaxing wrote: ^^ I agree.  I just don't get why they are together.  The relationship seems to do nothing for either of them.  Usually when 2 people aren't on the same page isn't that when you move on?  I don't feel bad for Nikki, because I don't understand why she'd be sticking it out with him.  What is she getting from this?  She's a young beautiful girl, who can go find an actual Mr. Right.  JP I think maybe has no idea what he wants, or who he wants or what a woman needs from a man in a relationship.  Whatever his problem is here, it's just seems a bad relationship all around for both of them.  

Pretty simple, she's getting $50,000 & an out from the relationship. She'll be able to say "we tried" & it's over.

I disagree. I think that's what he's getting out of the relationship; she, otoh, seems genuinely torn up to me, I don't think she's that great of an actress.

I agree that she's torn up. But she's still getting her nail in the coffin. She can't get thru to him by herself. She even vocalized that she can't. This will be enough for her to say it's over. She's getting her out & $50,000 for the public process.

grace8136 wrote:I don't hate any of these contestants. Hate is way too strong of word for someone I only know from tv. I don't like JPG. He's definitely not my cup of tea. Some of the things that he's said are hard to watch and quite sad and that's being acknowledged in the fan thread as well. If he moves away from his daughter my opinion of him will be much lower, but still not hate. I don't care enough about him to work up that sort of emotion. I'm actually surprised I'm watching the show, but it's sort of fascinating at times. I'm curious to find out about what's going on with Jenna. I may even check out a previous season.  

I never cared that JPG didn't propose or say I love you. He should move at a pace right for him. I'm just not impressed by him because of the way he's handled multiple things. At ATFR, his focus was on sticking it to TPTB. He was angry that day, probably about Dancing with The Stars and Nikki seemed all but forgotten. I was upset for her. Her body language was screaming for him to help her. He wanted to make the point that the show's expectations are silly, but he missed the mark and instead looked like a db for not being responsive to Nikki. That should have been a fairly easy point to make because a lot of people agree with him on that. The whole premise of dating or sleeping with someone last week and getting engaged to another the next week is pretty crazy. If you go that route fine, but if you don't it's understandable. I wish he had made that point and honored Nikki. He had awhile to think about it. He responded to her "I love you" with an "I like you a lot" on national television. So.. common sense should tell him to do what he can to build her up and make her feel better about everything on ATFR, but he doesn't get stuff like that.

That public humiliation seems to be driving a lot of the issues for Nikki, yet he piles more on. In general, he's made some thoughtless, hurtful comments and as mindless said, dances around the subject. I thought/wish she was stronger. I cringe watching her beg for love. This is a little off topic, but there's a girl my son knows that started a youtube channel in middle school. It became really popular and she ended up graduating early, went to UT, not sure if she's still there or what, but anyhow my daughter watches her videos sometimes. The other day she was watching one while I was cooking dinner and I actually thought.. hey, Nikki could use this 19 year old's advice! Here's the link if anyone's interested.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wQrNG4XrrA If you have a teenage girl, she may be interested in some of the other topics. It's generally pretty solid advice for girls.

The human lie detector lady made a good point last night. She said JP may feel like he's giving 100% and Nikki can still feel like she's only receiving 70%. That may sum it up. I'm sure the show will end on a high note. He'll probably say I love you, but they are just 2 very different people. I don't believe in the whole opposites attract notion. They don't get each other and more than anything, we want to be understood.

I'm not so sure that JPG started this whole thing because he was trying to stick it to TPTB. To me, it looked as though he used TPTB as an excuse for not proposing. Just like now he's using his culture for not saying ILY.

I think he is pretty sly and manipulative. He had TPTB, the viewers and Nikki convinced that he didn't propose to her because he had an agenda against TPTB blah, blah, blah....Because WHICH woman, in her right mind, would continue seeing him if he told her sorry it just didn't happen for me? He had to manipulate Nikki into thinking that it's the 2 of them against TPTB! Nikki is a good little chirping gf right by his side fighting off anyone and everyone who gets in their way....what a joke!

IMO, he knew that TPTB wanted a proposal, and he couldn't give them one because JPG did NOT fall in love. Nothing wrong with that. He could have just been honest and told everyone that IT didn't happen, and that would have been the end of JPG.

But wanting to be in the spotlight he decided to play games with whomever wanted to know about JPG/Nikki. This allowed him to stay in the spotlight. People are following their progress or lack of one; JPG's manipulation is working.

The lie detector person was right, JPG is  saying one thing, and sticking his tongue out at the same time. Fools are those who believe what he's saying.
What I found really disturbing is when he said to Nikki: "You know I wish I could make it better, every day....It's sooo hard"....I'm like WTF? What is wrong with her?