Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - #8

SueSt wrote:His focus has been about getting answers to his legitimate questions.

If (and that's a big "if" IMO) Nick's focus was in getting an answer to a "legitimate" question then I fear he totally lost focus because that question has never been answered.

Andi did give Nick an answer but it wasn't to that question and it's taken me a while to make the obvious connection. Andi gave Nick the answer to the questions Nick raised in his letter (which she did read) and those questions were legitimate (the AFR question was IMO not). I don't believe the answers were what Nick wanted to hear but they were valid and IMO truthful answers.

Nick and JJ were the best part of this season for me. I hated the AFTR, hated Andi's attitude and that Nick said what he did. I understood why it came out, still wish it hadn't.

But what I have really loved is getting to know Nick. He has the big wonderful family. I saw great love as his mom spent four straight days with her dying brother to be there for him at the end. His mom is a wonderful woman and to me she helped make a wonderful man.

I watched him look sad at Lola, but overtime the spark returned to his eyes. He decided to give his time to a woman fighting breast cancer who had never met. He is enjoying Chicago this summer and I had fun reading his BiP tweets.

He goes to bars, at 33, I did too. If that makes you want to judge him, cool feel free.

Nothing can change what happened, but he is back to his normal life and now his Packers are playing again (got their butts kicked by Des and Chris's Seahawks Thursday). He had a great time at his sister's wedding and has a great loving relationship with his youngest sister, which touches my heart.

I like Nick, I think he is more good then bad, and for me that is enough.

No one can change the past if you hate him for one thing, that is your right, if you hate him for being arrogant the whole season and that thing, again your right. I hope with time the vehemence of that hate can die down, since there is nothing he can do to change it and it has been a while, but we each take our own time to get there.

I hope we can start discussing the current and not a past that won't change and the opinions we all have on the past won't change. I learned that lesson with Josh and Andi this week and it was a good one to learn. I hope we can do that same thing with Nick that I am trying to do with Josh and Andi. They all have futures and hopefully we get to see more of them and who they are without the slant of a TPTB edit.

Lucas15 wrote:

SueSt wrote:His focus has been about getting answers to his legitimate questions.

If (and that's a big "if" IMO) Nick's focus was in getting an answer to a "legitimate" question then I fear he totally lost focus because that question has never been answered.

Andi did give Nick an answer but it wasn't to that question and it's taken me a while to make the obvious connection. Andi gave Nick the answer to the questions Nick raised in his letter (which she did read) and those questions were legitimate (the AFR question was IMO not). I don't believe the answers were what Nick wanted to hear but they were valid and IMO truthful answers.

I think you are right that Andi answered some of Nick's questions from the letter before he asked the infamous question; however, I do think that to Nick the question became a legitimate one after Andi said that she never loved him. Nick's question was basically something along the lines of 'then why did you sleep with me if you didn't love me'? It was probably the moment he realized that he was used (and yes, I know that every F2 is used, abused, strung-along every single season), and that is when he started to gain his closure. I don't think Nick verbally got an answer, but he did indeed get an answer to his question.

I personally think that Andi slept with Nick because she was unsure if Josh was going to be there till the end. I think if Josh had the first FS date, then Andi would not have slept with Nick. I am sure the producers decided the placement of when Nick and Josh would go on their FS dates for this very reason. I think most if not all of the leads are worried about people leaving and then being left alone at the end. Des's season was probably still fresh in Andi's mind, and she might have been worried that Josh would leave just like Brooks left Des. Andi knew how skeptical of the process Nick was so to entirely convince him, she felt that she had to sleep with him so at least she would have him at the end if Josh decided to leave, imo. Andi has said that if Josh wasn't there, then she wouldn't have become engaged. I think that's easy to say now that she is engaged to Josh, but had he chosen to leave on his own, I think she would have gotten engaged to Nick, but it most likely wouldn't have lasted.

For me personally, my biggest outrage of this season was not Andi sleeping with Nick in the FS, it was Andi's cold demeanor, not only Nick, but to Eric Hill as well. But not to go off topic, I do think that Nick's revelation is going to have a lasting effect on this show though. I think in someway it is going to change the FS date portion for the lead and contestants. I don't know how exactly, but I strongly suspect it is going to change. I could maybe see more leads go the way of Sean and say they will not have sex in the FS, but rather use it as a time to talk 1 on 1 and be very, very clear about that to their date the audience. I could also see it changing the way the F2 and F3 feel about the security of their relationship with the lead on the show. If the lead does not sleep with them are the contestants going to think that they are not the one because of that? Could that make more F2's and F3's want to leave on their own? Also, since this topic has been discussed so much, it seems that many are in consensus that Andi probably told Josh he was going to be her F1 in the FS. So could future contestants want to hear that they are F1 in the FS, and if they don't hear that, then they would leave on their own? I just think that this topic has opened a whole can of worms for the show and it will be interesting to see what happens with it going forward. Has the show gone on too long now and people know too much about how the show works? This topic being brought up could wind up being the beginning of the end for this show. I guess it has to end eventually! I think it will be interesting to see how Chris handles his FS dates on his season.

Hi everyone ... I try to stay away as much as possible from this discussion thread, because it seems there's nothing of my interest to discuss, since same old, same old ... doesn't thrill me.
But I do have one story to share, that recently happened to me...

I work in construction business, it can be said ... it's a man's world... metal work, civil engineering, installations, labor, human resources, politics ... lots of politics and ...mafia. Lies, dishonesty, political influence, power play and ... sexism. I'm a nice woman in my usual everyday life. I tend to be sensible and also very sensitive, so I always lend my hand to anyone in need... and well, I'm perceived among people to be naive, too "good for this corrupted sector", too nice, that sometimes people think they can "walk over me"... and most of the times I don't fight back, because I know that some battles I can't win, not when I don't have the same position and when "the important players" are in the shadows and I'm only dealing with their marionettes. So I look at myself more as a cautious, attentive and a reasonable businesswoman. In the process of making a deal and its realization I have to maintain the posture of a lady, because every step is judged and sometimes more severely than men's, the mistakes are counted and the success is more likely being attributed to everyone else, the team, never to a woman on her own... and that's fine ... I don't strive for attention... but sometimes I get it and it's not a desirable one. It's when I'm put in a compromising situation only because of my sex. And many times I've resulted at fault for some deals not making it through, because I wouldn't bow, but I've always maintained my sincere and goodhearted attitude ... until recently.

I was a B**** to someone ... and I don't regret it.

He stepped over the line, when he wanted to make me feel like it was all my fault, like I should be ashamed of it, like I should feel embarrassed that things ended the way they did.

And you know what I say to that ... FU.

Was that a proper language for a business woman - no.
Does that make me less of a lady? ... probably in the eyes of someone ... but that someone doesn't matter, because he doesn't deserve any of my time.

To others I'll continue to be a girl friday if needed , I'll be a nice person to people who deserve it, I'll hold the other partners on the same level they hold me... meaning it all starts with respect, responsibility and coherence between words and actions ...even when there is no signed deal, I can take the word and a handshake with the same value... but better not to cross me... I had my share of projects that I never got paid for, lies and deceitful information been told to "keep me good", my name dragged in mud ...and I've learned my lesson. So as quickly as I can turn to smile, I can become an unpleasant figure in someone's story ... and I don't care for my reputation anymore, it's been damaged before because of the lies... so what can the truth do to me?

So, same people making the same arguments over and over. I am yet to see anyone whose initial opinion of what transpired at the AFRC change since then. What exactly is the purpose of these long discussions?

stuckinsc wrote:Nick and JJ were the best part of this season for me.  I hated the AFTR, hated Andi's attitude and that Nick said what he did.  I understood why it came out, still wish it hadn't.

But what I have really loved is getting to know Nick.  He has the big wonderful family.  I saw great love as his mom spent four straight days with her dying brother to be there for him at the end.  His mom is a wonderful woman and to me she helped make a wonderful man.

I watched him look sad at Lola, but overtime the spark returned to his eyes.  He decided to give his time to a woman fighting breast cancer who had never met.  He is enjoying Chicago this summer and I had fun reading his BiP tweets.

He goes to bars, at 33, I did too.  If that makes you want to judge him, cool feel free.

Nothing can change what happened, but he is back to his normal life and now his Packers are playing again (got their butts kicked by Des and Chris's Seahawks Thursday).  He had a great time at his sister's wedding and has a great loving relationship with his youngest sister, which touches my heart.

I like Nick, I think he is more good then bad, and for me that is enough.

No one can change the past if you hate him for one thing, that is your right, if you hate him for being arrogant the whole season and that thing, again your right.  I hope with time the vehemence of that hate can die down, since there is nothing he can do to change it and it has been a while, but we each take our own time to get there.

I hope we can start discussing the current and not a past that won't change and the opinions we all have on the past won't change.  I learned that lesson with Josh and Andi this week and it was a good one to learn.  I hope we can do that same thing with Nick that I am trying to do with Josh and Andi.  They all have futures and hopefully we get to see more of them and who they are without the slant of a TPTB edit.

Exactly to the bold! This whole rehashing of a topic that is leaves me smh.

lexforlife wrote:So, same people making the same arguments over and over. I am yet to see anyone whose initial   opinion of what transpired at the AFRC change since then. What exactly is the purpose of these long discussions?

Therapy with a keyboard? I agree, no one is changing their minds and it would be great to move on.

Nick is going to see Sam Smith in concert. I bought his album, it is good, but I didn't like it as much as the hype made me think I would.

Sable wrote:I think you are right that Andi answered some of Nick's questions from the letter before he asked the infamous question; however, I do think that to Nick the question became a legitimate one after Andi said that she never loved him.

Actually I was thinking of the things that Andi said after Nick asked the question more than what she said before. Nick pretty much ran out of questions and it was CH that kept the conversation going by asking Andi if she had ever loved Nick, or parts of Nick. I understand why CH did that but I think it's unfortunate that he did and that Andi answered it with what I believe was an honest answer but an unfortunate one. I think Andi had thought about Nick's letter and knew how she was going to address those questions and would have - eventually - had CH not changed the trajectory of the conversation.

I personally think that Andi slept with Nick because she was unsure if Josh was going to be there till the end.  I think if Josh had the first FS date, then Andi would not have slept with Nick.  I am sure the producers decided the placement of when Nick and Josh would go on their FS dates for this very reason.  I think most if not all of the leads are worried about people leaving and then being left alone at the end.  Des's season was probably still fresh in Andi's mind, and she might have been worried that Josh would leave just like Brooks left Des.  Andi knew how skeptical of the process Nick was so to entirely convince him, she felt that she had to sleep with him so at least she would have him at the end if Josh decided to leave, imo.  Andi has said that if Josh wasn't there, then she wouldn't have become engaged.  I think that's easy to say now that she is engaged to Josh, but had he chosen to leave on his own, I think she would have gotten engaged to Nick, but it most likely wouldn't have lasted.

And I personally agree with just about all of this. Andi never answered the question but I think if she had it would have been something like "I believed at the time that you might be the one and I wanted to do all I could to make that work." I think sleeping with Nick was at least as much about convincing herself as it was about anything else. The producers had done a good job of putting fear in her mind about the one she "wanted" to pick might not pick her back and if she wanted any chance at a good outcome she had to sincerely explore all other options.

Through much of the show Andi was trying to resolve her heart with her head - to try and make sure that her heart didn't lead her into something where it could really get broken by letting her brain decide what would be good or safe for her. At the time of the FD that safety wasn't Josh - it was Nick. I believe the producers knew what Josh was going to say the next time he saw Andi and that's exactly why they scheduled the FD sequence the way they did because had Josh's been first Andi might not have even taken Nick to the FS (as she didn't with Chris). That would have been a real problem for TPTB because it wouldn't have even been close to the ending they wanted.

I also believe that had Josh left Andi would have picked Nick and it wouldn't have worked out. Inside the "bubble" it could have but outside I don't think so and from what Andi has said I think she also knows that.

I do think that Nick's revelation is going to have a lasting effect on this show though.  I think in someway it is going to change the FS date portion for the lead and contestants.  I don't know how exactly, but I strongly suspect it is going to change.  I could maybe see more leads go the way of Sean and say they will not have sex in the FS, but rather use it as a time to talk 1 on 1 and be very, very clear about that to their date the audience.  I could also see it changing the way the F2 and F3 feel about the security of their relationship with the lead on the show.  If the lead does not sleep with them are the contestants going to think that they are not the one because of that?  Could that make more F2's and F3's want to leave on their own?  Also, since this topic has been discussed so much, it seems that many are in consensus that Andi probably told Josh he was going to be her F1 in the FS.  So could future contestants want to hear that they are F1 in the FS, and if they don't hear that, then they would leave on their own?  I just think that this topic has opened a whole can of worms for the show and it will be interesting to see what happens with it going forward.  Has the show gone on too long now and people know too much about how the show works?  This topic being brought up could wind up being the beginning of the end for this show.  I guess it has to end eventually!  I think it will be interesting to see how Chris handles his FS dates on his season.

All good observations and ones which I don't know the answers to. I don't believe the show is going to change the format of the fantasy dates because it worked too well this past season - from their warped and slimeball perspective anyway. It got them drama that people will talk about for years and whether we like it or not, viewers watch for the drama and the outrageous behavior and all reality TV tries to capture drama in their own way. Even HGTV programs like "Love It Or List It" depend on drama - between the couples (one wants to sell & move and the other wants to renovate) and the two "stars" of the series (one who finds houses to buy and the other remodels the existing house). Without the drama reality TV is just simply boring.

Ironically it's been Jesse Kovacs who has best articulated what this show (and for that matter all reality TV) is all about:

this is entertainment and the goal for ABC and the producers is to create a show that leaves an audience no choice but to become emotionally invested in the characters.

The deeper questions are whether leads and cast members change how they deal with what happens when the cameras turn off.

stuckinsc wrote:Nick and JJ were the best part of this season for me.  I hated the AFTR, hated Andi's attitude and that Nick said what he did.  I understood why it came out, still wish it hadn't.

But what I have really loved is getting to know Nick.  He has the big wonderful family.  I saw great love as his mom spent four straight days with her dying brother to be there for him at the end.  His mom is a wonderful woman and to me she helped make a wonderful man.

I watched him look sad at Lola, but overtime the spark returned to his eyes.  He decided to give his time to a woman fighting breast cancer who had never met.  He is enjoying Chicago this summer and I had fun reading his BiP tweets.

He goes to bars, at 33, I did too.  If that makes you want to judge him, cool feel free.

Nothing can change what happened, but he is back to his normal life and now his Packers are playing again (got their butts kicked by Des and Chris's Seahawks Thursday).  He had a great time at his sister's wedding and has a great loving relationship with his youngest sister, which touches my heart.

I like Nick, I think he is more good then bad, and for me that is enough.

No one can change the past if you hate him for one thing, that is your right, if you hate him for being arrogant the whole season and that thing, again your right.  I hope with time the vehemence of that hate can die down, since there is nothing he can do to change it and it has been a while, but we each take our own time to get there.

I hope we can start discussing the current and not a past that won't change and the opinions we all have on the past won't change.  I learned that lesson with Josh and Andi this week and it was a good one to learn.  I hope we can do that same thing with Nick that I am trying to do with Josh and Andi.  They all have futures and hopefully we get to see more of them and who they are without the slant of a TPTB edit.

I'm bringing this post forward, because I see the many attempts to bring it back on topic and this post is trying to do just that. This is a good summary of what Nick has been up to post show. The wedding pics on his IG are adorable.

All F2's move on, and he has done a great job IMO. Unlike some other F2's or F3's that bring up the same drama over and over every chance they can get, of what occurred on their season.

Lucas15 wrote:

SueSt wrote:His focus has been about getting answers to his legitimate questions.

If (and that's a big "if" IMO) Nick's focus was in getting an answer to a "legitimate" question then I fear he totally lost focus because that question has never been answered.

Andi did give Nick an answer but it wasn't to that question and it's taken me a while to make the obvious connection. Andi gave Nick the answer to the questions Nick raised in his letter (which she did read) and those questions were legitimate (the AFR question was IMO not). I don't believe the answers were what Nick wanted to hear but they were valid and IMO truthful answers.

Respectfully, I disagree. Nick's question about the FS was legitimate.

Maybe Nick can get together with Christy. Didn't he meet her already?

Nick Viall @viallnicholas28 · 16m

Success! Thanks @christyhansen looks great !




Christy Hansen
‏@christyhansen_ @viallnicholas28 tick tock!



Nick Viall @viallnicholas28 · 58m

This haircut better be good @christyhansen_

pander3575 wrote:Maybe Nick can get together with Christy.  Didn't he meet her already?

Nick Viall @viallnicholas28     ·   16m    

Success! Thanks @christyhansen looks great !




Christy Hansen
‏@christyhansen_   @viallnicholas28 tick tock!


  
Nick Viall @viallnicholas28     ·   58m    

This haircut better be good @christyhansen_

Yes, there was a pic with him and Nick S and Christy and Kat earlier this summer.