Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[LibbyBell]

Ash, you make good points. IA with them all.

[Lucas15]

I am sure that every contestant tells their close friends and family exactly what happened while they were on the show.  I definitely think that Josh's family knew that he was F1 based on the tweets by his mother and sister.  I personally think it would be weird if the contestants didn't talk to their family and friends and let them know about their time on the show.

And I happen to agree with you. I also believe that most people are probably going to tell their family and close friends and that the people you think knew that Josh was F1 probably did know that he was F1. But the fact that we both feel this way doesn't give any of those people the right to breach their contract; they all sign the same contract with the same confidentiality clause and no one should knowingly breach it. The fact that someone does or even that breaching it is a normal thing done frequently doesn't mean that it should be excusable for anyone to do it. It's not excusable. Anyone and everyone who does it has materially breached a contract they knowingly and willingly signed and no one should do that.

[Ash2214]

Let's see:
F3 Chris: next bachelor, F4, Marcus on BIP and engaged to someone else, Brian and Dylan doing appearances (which I think it's great for anyone who will take advantages of their 15 minutes of fame), Cody on BIP
Nick: quietly living his life in Chicago.. No wonder people are not interesting in talking about what he's up to. It's boring.

Right. But of course, at least in my opinion, Nick was one of the most polarizing characters I've seen on the show. When someone is polarizing and then brings a subject out of the dark that had stayed there for 18 or so other seasons, well it's going to be talked about whether we like it or not unfortunately.

[ironcat]

I am sure that every contestant tells their close friends and family exactly what happened while they were on the show.  I definitely think that Josh's family knew that he was F1 based on the tweets by his mother and sister.  I personally think it would be weird if the contestants didn't talk to their family and friends and let them know about their time on the show.

And I happen to agree with you. I also believe that most people are probably going to tell their family and close friends and that the people you think knew that Josh was F1 probably did know that he was F1. But the fact that we both feel this way doesn't give any of those people the right to breach their contract; they all sign the same contract with the same confidentiality clause and no one should knowingly breach it. The fact that someone does or even that breaching it is a normal thing done frequently doesn't mean that it should be excusable for anyone to do it. It's not excusable. Anyone and everyone who does it has materially breached a contract they knowingly and willingly signed and no one should do that.

I'm pretty sure by now the producers are well aware that virtually ALL of the final ones tell their family the outcome; many have even freely admitted so in interviews (both Josh and Andi this season, I believe, and possibly Chris).  There IS a difference though, between telling your family in a private conversation that doesn't have the possibility of being overheard by others, and telling them loudly about it in a public place, where complete strangers whose actions you have no control over can hear.  I suspect the producers are okay with the former, but not the latter.

As far as whether Nick strategized or not, the fact that a strategy isn't successful doesn't prove it didn't happen.  And conversely, the fact that someone got the outcome they desired isn't proof that it was due to a successful strategy they implemented, sometimes things just work out because they are "meant to be".

I also wouldn't categorize Nick's actions as "stalking" (I think that word gets thrown around way too loosely for what is actually a terrifying crime), but he was also clearly more persistent in his attempts than either Arie or Sean.

[BohemianNika]

I know you already have this pic in Nick's Fan Forum, but there is a (maybe not so fan) comment on the pic. I'm only sharing it because the comment is from the girl who posted the photo and not from some random stranger. Only noticed it because of the "#thebachelorette" tag.

kdwhitehead Pshhhh who watches the #thebachelorette?! #love #nick #girlsnight 5h

     zahraa7554 @mzavip !!!!! 5h
     jordanlynthomas @kdwhitehead WHAT! Omg was he nice?! 5h
     spulice23 @kdwhitehead holy poop...thats awesome 4h
     kdwhitehead @jordanlynthomas yeah he was funny! Pretty obvious he LOVED the female population though. #manwhore 1h



I'm not judging, in fact, I'm glad he is having some fun  

[Lucas15]

Right. But of course, at least in my opinion, Nick was one of the most polarizing characters I've seen on the show. When someone is polarizing and then brings a subject out of the dark that had stayed there for 18 or so other seasons, well it's going to be talked about whether we like it or not unfortunately.

And that is the key to why the ending of Andi's season is still discussed and at times passionately debated; Nick turned the accepted sexist "norms" we are used to inside out and upside down, and for that matter so did Andi. Maybe someday I'll find a big enough chair to hide under and attempt to articulate this better but to me, it's the most fascinating aspect of the past season and exactly the kind of TV the producers want to show.

[stuckinsc]

I don't care what happened on this show.  Nick's "attempts" to contact Andi may have been all him or all TPTB pushing it or somewhere in the middle.

We all assume that letter was written right before the MTA.  What if it was written a while back and then given to Andi later, would you change your opinion?

As far as we know, Nick never tried to contact Andi if TPTB was not involved.  Arie went outside TPTB to contact Emily.  So that is different.

Sorry, but I have a hard time with the word stalker, just like the word bipolar.  I think probably because both have touched my life.  My bipolar sister was stalked by her ex-husband.  It took her years to get away from him because he threatened my life, my dad's life, my grandmother's life and my sister's life.  He killed family pets and left them on our door step and there were times we had to run from our home to get away from him.  So no, I am sorry, what Nick did is not stalking and use of words like that aren't cute or funny.

Call Nick arrogant, conceited and even a jerk.  I won't argue with you.  But stalker and bipolar?  Nope you have taken it too far.

Sadly we are still having this discussion a month after AFTR.

How about discussing that Nick's sister is getting married this weekend?

Or discussing that Nick is moving on if he is enjoying female attention?

I do find it funny that someone who obviously asked him for a pic and then posted it on her IG is making fun of him.  Can someone please respond to her that she is fame seeking?

[ironcat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the purpose of having 2 threads for Nick (and Andi/Josh) is so that one would be for only positive discussion/info, like Nick's sister's wedding, which is a happy event and I can't imagine getting into a negative debate over it, and the other (this one) would be for endlessly rehashing the more controversial issues regarding him.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat that ITA Nick is neither a stalker or bipolar, and I also seriously doubt there are that many people out there who truly believe he is either, and the ones who are still calling him that are only using the terms to insult him. Not pleasant but it happens every season. And I totally get why someone who has had either of these serious conditions actually affect their life would be particularly sensitive/offended by the casual usage of the terms, but again, it happens every season.

[stuckinsc]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the purpose of having 2 threads for Nick (and Andi/Josh) is so that one would be for only positive discussion/info, like Nick's sister's wedding, which is a happy event and I can't imagine getting into a negative debate over it, and the other (this one) would be for endlessly rehashing the more controversial issues regarding him.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat that ITA Nick is neither a stalker or bipolar, and I also seriously doubt there are that many people out there who truly believe he is either, and the ones who are still calling him that are only using the terms to insult him.  Not pleasant but it happens every season.  And I totally get why someone who has had either of these serious conditions actually affect their life would be particularly sensitive/offended by the casual usage of the terms, but again, it happens every season.

I appreciate that, but I will continue to object to those terms. Again, if you want to insult Nick with reasonable terms, I have no problem. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just object to the use of words that to me just aren't appropriate and to me make the person using them not look so good.

I will say, why not talk about what Nick is currently doing, if all the derogatory crap is true, then there should be new reasons to call him that. If there aren't then rehashing the same crap makes us what we accused him of, being people who don't move on when maybe we should. Jodi fans have requested that we discuss current Jodi stuff on that thread too, or maybe that is just me, I do know I am truly over that whole bachelorette season and have no desire to discuss it anymore. I want to move onto BiP and bachelor.

[sbolduc]

Right. But of course, at least in my opinion, Nick was one of the most polarizing characters I've seen on the show. When someone is polarizing and then brings a subject out of the dark that had stayed there for 18 or so other seasons, well it's going to be talked about whether we like it or not unfortunately.

And that is the key to why the ending of Andi's season is still discussed and at times passionately debated; Nick turned the accepted sexist "norms" we are used to inside out and upside down, and for that matter so did Andi. Maybe someday I'll find a big enough chair to hide under and attempt to articulate this better but to me, it's the most fascinating aspect of the past season and exactly the kind of TV the producers want to show.

Agreed I think it's the most fascinating topic to come out of this show, period.

[whit90]

It might be the most fascinated thing that came out of this show but it is over and done with. If Andi did not sleep with Nick knowing that she was picking Josh and he was the love of her life. Then she should of never slept with Nick period. No excuses !  She chose to sleep with Nick and lead him on more than any other lead I have seen on this show. She knew darn well how Nick felt about her but did the deed anyway. She has only herself to blame for her actions. All Nick wanted was some type of closure which anyone in his position would want and deserve. If she had given him the closure he needed before the AFFTR then Nick would of never said what he did period. When she came out with her nasty attitude at the AFTR and told him she never loved him she deserved what she got period. Andi has zero class she has shown this during Juan season after his season , during her own season, and still to this day. Posters who are calling Nick a stalker are insulting the people who actually have been stalked in real life. I myself find it disgusting that actually people would label him this way when he only tried to contact her twice as we know as a fact. Nick has moved on living his life in Chicago working and having fun. I find it strange that Andi has not moved on and still to this day will post or say nasty things about him. I guess that is just the type of person she is. I am so glad that Nick and 23 other guys dodged the bullet of Andi because she is no prize in my eyes . I have never seen a couple that people have moved on so fast from. Nobody even the media cares what they are doing . That speaks volumes to me. JMO

[Guest]

It might be the most fascinated thing that came out of this show but it is over and done with. If Andi did not sleep with Nick knowing that she was picking Josh and he was the love of her life. Then she should of never slept with Nick period. No excuses !  She chose to sleep with Nick and lead him on more than any other lead I have seen on this show. [/b]She knew darn well how Nick felt about her but did the deed anyway. She has only herself to blame for her actions. All Nick wanted was some type of closure which anyone in his position would want and deserve. If she had given him the closure he needed before the AFFTR then Nick would of never said what he did period. When she came out with her nasty attitude at the AFTR and told him she never loved him she deserved what she got period. Andi has zero class she has shown this during Juan season after his season , during her own season, and still to this day. Posters who are calling Nick a stalker are insulting the people who actually have been stalked in real life. I myself find it disgusting that actually people would label him this way when he only tried to contact her twice as we know as a fact. Nick has moved on living his life in Chicago working and having fun. I find it strange that Andi has not moved on and still to this day will post or say nasty things about him. I guess that is just the type of person she is. I am so glad that Nick and 23 other guys dodged the bullet of Andi because she is no prize in my eyes . I have never seen a couple that people have moved on so fast from. Nobody even the media cares what they are doing . That speaks volumes to me. JMO

I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you have said above. But in regards to the first bolded line, there are so many other leads that IMO have led there F2 on as much if not even more. A few recent examples; Sean Lowe told Lindsey Yenter that he loved her on one of the final dates. I would say that would encourage one to think they are the F1 more than the lead sleeping with their F2 and/or F3, something that apparently is pretty common, just not made public knowledge. Another example is Ashley Hebert. She slept with Ben F in the fantasy suite even though her heart was set on JP and they are considered by many fans to be one of the best couples to come out of this franchise. How is what Andi did any different? Believe me, there are more examples where those came from.

To the second bolded sentence, the media outlets haven't been saying much about Andi and Josh because they have gone about leading their lives fairly normally, only making a few appearances and being fairly quiet on SM. I respect that and think it gives them more of a shot to really make this work.  Also, it would seem they have no skeletons in the closet to dig up, therefore giving tabloids etc. nothing to work with, unlike Courtney R, Juan Pablo, and even Sean and Cat with all the "waiting until we're married" backlash and his DWTS stint. Des and Chris didn't have much media attention after the  finale either for similar reasons as Andi and Josh. It certainly isn't a bad thing at all. It's quite good actually for the long term success of the couples.  Andi and Josh have a huge following on Instagram and twitter and a very strong fan base. I'd say they are doing quite well.

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