Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Guest]

^^ I think it was a day after Nick was on E!, so probably July 30th

I can't find the video but an article referring what Ali said "After the interview, Ali defended Nick saying he was truly heartbroken.  “I almost started crying…he genuinely seemed hurt,” Ali told her E! co-hosts.  She went on to say that Nick wanted to talk to Andi privately, but the producers didn’t allow it because they want the drama on TV.  But this former Bachelorette also defended Andi Dorfman saying, “there is nothing wrong with Andi sleeping with more than one guy, it doesn’t make her a sl**.”

If this is all that was said it's only confirming that Andi and Nick only could have their talk in front of cameras, nothing else. I'll keep searching.

[ironcat]

With all this talk of a perfect world, what about just the real world where people can make decisions without the interference of producers? We can't forget that while the participants may develop real feelings, the format of dating AND ITS AFTERMATH is not real life.

I agree that Andi didn't do a great job when sending Nick home in the DR. Whether it would have made that much of a difference in how HE handled things from that point, we'll never know. He was so determined, cocky and gobsmacked, he still might not have been ready to let go for a while.

I would also be curious to actually hear what Andi told Ali in full. And I hope those who wish for forgiveness for Nick from his detractors fee

[ironcat]

Post got cut off. Should read
feel Andi should be extended the same courtesy.

[Lucas15]

I can't find the video but an article referring what Ali said "After the interview, Ali defended Nick saying he was truly heartbroken.  “I almost started crying…he genuinely seemed hurt,” Ali told her E! co-hosts.  She went on to say that Nick wanted to talk to Andi privately, but the producers didn’t allow it because they want the drama on TV.  But this former Bachelorette also defended Andi Dorfman saying, “there is nothing wrong with Andi sleeping with more than one guy, it doesn’t make her a sl**.”

If this is all that was said it's only confirming that Andi and Nick only could have their talk in front of cameras, nothing else. I'll keep searching.

I think it's plausible that Nick wanted to talk to Andi privately, and I think (but don't know because it never happened) that had a private conversation taken place Nick might have gotten the message that Andi was happy with her decision and gotten the closure he feels he didn't get previously - in private. But IMHO no one should believe that the producers would have allowed a private conversation - it would have been filmed and if there had been anything dramatic, it would have been shown. Nick demonstrated (by talking in public about the show) that he either didn't understand, or didn't have high regard for his contract but Andi is a lawyer and would not only understand but respect her contract and for her to have met Nick in private without the approval of the show would have been a flagrant violation of her contract (as well as Nick's). That private meeting is a nice idea to contemplate but it was never going to happen which is but one of the huge differences between a relationship playing out in real life, and one playing out on Reality TV as ironcat so succinctly points out below.

With all this talk of a perfect world, what about just the real world where people can make decisions without the interference of producers?  We can't forget that while the participants may develop real feelings, the format of dating AND ITS AFTERMATH is not real life.

I agree that Andi didn't do a great job when sending Nick home in the DR.  Whether it would have made that much of a difference in how HE handled things from that point, we'll never know.  He was so determined, cocky and gobsmacked, he still might not have been ready to let go for a while.

I would also be curious to actually hear what Andi told Ali in full.  And I hope those who wish for forgiveness for Nick from his detractors feel Andi should be extended the same courtesy.

As Francis Bacon said “the human understanding ... when it has once adopted an opinion … draws all things else to support and agree with it." and that certainly describes how I saw Nick both during the show and during much of what he's done after filming ended. Until forced to process everything Nick hasn't shown me the ability to consider anything contrary to his own beliefs.

Regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with how Andi handled things in the DR, she told Nick it wasn't going to work out between them, gave him a reason why she felt that way and sent him home, and Nick didn't get a message of finality out of that. It's been argued that Andi was too cold and too harsh with Nick but would more compassion have gotten the message through to him? IMHO it would not have; it would only have been processed by Nick as one more thing that supports his own beliefs that she loved him and this circus would still be going on today. Sometimes you have to smack a mule with a two by four to get their attention.

[Guest]

Lucas 15

"As Francis Bacon said “the human understanding ... when it has once adopted an opinion … draws all things else to support and agree with it." and that certainly describes how I saw Nick both during the show and during much of what he's done after filming ended. Until forced to process everything Nick hasn't shown me the ability to consider anything contrary to his own beliefs.

Regardless of whether or not anyone agrees with how Andi handled things in the DR, she told Nick it wasn't going to work out between them, gave him a reason why she felt that way and sent him home, and Nick didn't get a message of finality out of that. It's been argued that Andi was too cold and too harsh with Nick but would more compassion have gotten the message through to him? IMHO it would not have; it would only have been processed by Nick as one more thing that supports his own beliefs that she loved him and this circus would still be going on today. Sometimes you have to smack a mule with a two by four to get their attention."

  Great post!

[luvlady345]

I wanted to bring this over to respond:

Per Cari:


There are cast that go on this show and are able to hold onto their value/belief system regardless of the bubble. Not everyone turns into a wild man in the FS--some utilize the FS for time alone to talk and occasionally there have been cast who refuse the FS card. Some also, turn into wild people! I guess what I am trying to say: we can't put all the blame on the bubble.

Just curious, Kasha, would Andi's behavior of having sex with 2 guys qualify her as a "wild" person in your estimation?

Also, I see it referred to repeatedly that Andi had sex with 3 guys from the franchise.  Has it been confirmed that she actually had sex with JPG, or did they just spend the night together talking (well, apparently he talked about himself and she got madder and madder :giggle: )?

I see that comment a few times as well. No JPG didn't sleep with her, he was in love with Nikki. Maybe that's why Andi flew off the deep handle. Besides, I'm sure we would have heard about it at the ATFR if she did. Same script, wrong season.  

ETA: I forgot to add in response to the Bachelor bubble. That was the difference IMO between Nick sleeping with Andi, and Andi sleeping with Nick. One behaved according to their morals and the other behaved according to whatever.

GA, Nick has had 2 other relationship that we know of in his 33 years of living so because of his so called morals that he has only has 2 other sexual partners before Andi and the rest of that time he has been celibate, I personally don't believe this for a moment..... I remember Josh got so much FLACK for not being in a committed relationship for 5 years and called a lair but now St. Nick IMO has reinvented his views on sex to fit the circumstance an it's gobbled up as the gossip... Just like people where saying NO WAY could Josh not have a relationship for 5 years, an I am saying it now NO WAY has Nick just had sex with 3 woman and the only reason why he did was because he was in love, he is a big ole fibber but all of this is just my opinion....

[sbolduc]

GA, Nick has had 2 other relationship that we know of in his 33 years of living so because of his so called morals that he has only has 2 other sexual partners before Andi and the rest of that time he has been celibate, I personally don't believe this for a moment.....  I remember Josh got so much FLACK for not being in a committed relationship for 5 years and called a lair but now St. Nick IMO has reinvented his views on sex to fit the circumstance an it's gobbled up as the gossip...  Just like people where saying NO WAY could Josh not have a relationship for 5 years, an I am saying it now NO WAY has Nick just had sex with 3 woman and the only reason why he did was because he was in love, he is a big ole fibber but all of this is just my opinion....  

I guess I read Nick's piece differently. I am not naive enough to believe he has only had sex with three women, I don't. I fully believe he has had casual sex.

I took his take to be sex is okay and nothing to be ashamed of, but it should be respected, and when two people aren't on the same page as to what sex means to each of them it can be harmful. He never once said that sex is meant for people in love, not once. He said it should be respected. IMO there is a difference.

[luvlady345]

GA, Nick has had 2 other relationship that we know of in his 33 years of living so because of his so called morals that he has only has 2 other sexual partners before Andi and the rest of that time he has been celibate, I personally don't believe this for a moment.....  I remember Josh got so much FLACK for not being in a committed relationship for 5 years and called a lair but now St. Nick IMO has reinvented his views on sex to fit the circumstance an it's gobbled up as the gossip...  Just like people where saying NO WAY could Josh not have a relationship for 5 years, an I am saying it now NO WAY has Nick just had sex with 3 woman and the only reason why he did was because he was in love, he is a big ole fibber but all of this is just my opinion....  

I guess I read Nick's piece differently. I am not naive enough to believe he has only had sex with three women, I don't. I fully believe he has had casual sex.

I took his take to be sex is okay and nothing to be ashamed of, but it should be respected, and when two people aren't on the same page as to what sex means to each of them it can be harmful. He never once said that sex is meant for people in love, not once. He said it should be respected. IMO there is a difference.

That's how I read it also, but I was just responding to the morality issue that was being raised......

[ironcat]

Is Nick's stance that he only has sex when he is in love, or when the woman is in love, or when neither is in love and it's a booty call? I'm confused.

[sbolduc]

^^^ ohh sorry didn't realize   

[Alanna]

GA, Nick has had 2 other relationship that we know of in his 33 years of living so because of his so called morals that he has only has 2 other sexual partners before Andi and the rest of that time he has been celibate, I personally don't believe this for a moment.....  I remember Josh got so much FLACK for not being in a committed relationship for 5 years and called a lair but now St. Nick IMO has reinvented his views on sex to fit the circumstance an it's gobbled up as the gossip...  Just like people where saying NO WAY could Josh not have a relationship for 5 years, an I am saying it now NO WAY has Nick just had sex with 3 woman and the only reason why he did was because he was in love, he is a big ole fibber but all of this is just my opinion....  

I guess I read Nick's piece differently. I am not naive enough to believe he has only had sex with three women, I don't. I fully believe he has had casual sex.

I took his take to be sex is okay and nothing to be ashamed of, but it should be respected, and when two people aren't on the same page as to what sex means to each of them it can be harmful. He never once said that sex is meant for people in love, not once. He said it should be respected. IMO there is a difference.

That's how I read it also, but I was just responding to the morality issue that was being raised......

I think the issue is that everyone, for the most part anyway, agrees that Nick's attitude towards sex, if real, is great, but is he for real or is he just doing it to shame Andi? I vote for the latter.

[ironcat]

If honest communication about feelings is a prerequisite for sex in Nick's opinion, he went on the wrong reality show.

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