Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[Sprite]

stuckinsc!  :WAVEY:  i always admired your posts especially at JuanPab's season! (we're on the same camp    )

In the perfect world, Andi allows Nick to her with Josh present as you said despite Nick in the letter Andi read alluded that Andi may not be happy with her F1. It was not an assumption on my part. It was in the letter, producer driven/written or not. There is no way we can negate the letter was not written by Nick. Allegedly Nick wrote that letter because Andi dint want to see him at the MTA. We have no way of proving Nick was forced to do all that. He wanted closure, yes but he added that tidbit that Andi might not be happy with her choice. He perhaps was hoping she might do a Mesnick, and that he hopes she realizes she made a mistake and changes her mind....

In the perfect world, despite knowing Nick's postshow attempts, despite reading that letter, Andi gives Nick an audience ....while Josh is present.   

I have no way of imagining that scenario happening unless in the Perfect World.

And only in the Perfect World would Andi NOT feel disrespectful with postshow Nick.

Thanks for saying that, Cari. While the letter was beautifully written, he alluded to it more than once about a possible second chance. Heck, even Sharleen stated in her blog that she didn't like what he did in regards to trying to get into contact with her and so forth. Like Sharleen said, Nick shouldn't have put Andi in that position. If Andi wanted to speak with Nick, she would have done so. If Andi had a change of heart, it would have been her decision to make. Nick shouldn't have essentially try to sway her.

Exactly, Ash! I was surprised with Sharleen that she mirrored my AFTR recap. Sharleen who was always in Nick's corner throughout the season....

And before we dismiss (again) Nick's postshow attempts as "the devil made me do it" because of the plane video.  (Again) does Andi know that? For me, it was very clear. Her icy behavior was due to his postshow attempts. Yes, she should have been kinder at the AFTR. But can she be blamed? i do not think so.

And i agree with StuckInSC, Jodi seems to have completely moved on. Although i do not entirely agree with Nick to further explain/justify thru his blogpost, im crossing my fingers, and think he is finally moving forward, too.   

Regarding the red highlight, I could possibly give her the benefit of the doubt if she hadn't been this way previously with JPab and Eric. It seems to be a pattern any time she is questioned or is not happy with someone.

[Cari]

Thanks for saying that, Cari. While the letter was beautifully written, he alluded to it more than once about a possible second chance. Heck, even Sharleen stated in her blog that she didn't like what he did in regards to trying to get into contact with her and so forth. Like Sharleen said, Nick shouldn't have put Andi in that position. If Andi wanted to speak with Nick, she would have done so. If Andi had a change of heart, it would have been her decision to make. Nick shouldn't have essentially try to sway her.

Exactly, Ash! I was surprised with Sharleen that she mirrored my AFTR recap. Sharleen who was always in Nick's corner throughout the season....

And before we dismiss (again) Nick's postshow attempts as "the devil made me do it" because of the plane video.  (Again) does Andi know that? For me, it was very clear. Her icy behavior was due to his postshow attempts. Yes, she should have been kinder at the AFTR. But can she be blamed? i do not think so.

And i agree with StuckInSC, Jodi seems to have completely moved on. Although i do not entirely agree with Nick to further explain/justify thru his blogpost, im crossing my fingers, and think he is finally moving forward, too.   

Regarding the red highlight, I could possibly give her the benefit of the doubt if she hadn't been this way previously with JPab and Eric. It seems to be a pattern any time she is questioned or is not happy with someone.

Sprite! *tacklehugs*

Exactly the bolded!

You got it right!

It seems to be Andi's pattern to be *b*tchy* "whenever someone questions her OR is not happy with someone"!

Hence her icy behavior towards Nick at the AFTR.     

Because Nick questioned Andi in his letter. Questioned her decision that Josh is a safer choice. Questioned her happiness with her F1.

Yes, Andi is not happy with someone.    And that someone was the postFRC Nick.

[Ash2214]

I guess I truly just do not understand how people think Andi should have acted differently with Nick at the ATFR. Andi was different than most leads. For Andi, her F2 guy tried to get in contact with her on more than one occasion, he wrote her a letter that described how much he loved her, what their relationship meant to him and asked her more than once in that letter for a second chance or at least questioned her happiness, and he also tweeted out pictures of them with captions that were quite romantic and Andi had to deal with all of this while she was engaged to someone else for almost three months.

Do people really think she would be super sweet, all over him and compassionate to Nick? Why the heck would she? Her demeanor was stern, but her answers to questions were perfect.

I can understand people saying she should have handled the initial break up differently, but for me, no way in heck should Andi have acted differently at the ATFR.

[Linds911]

^ Love your post. Same with Cari.

[Guest]

I guess I truly just do not understand how people think Andi should have acted differently with Nick at the ATFR. Andi was different than most leads. For Andi, her F2 guy tried to get in contact with her on more than one occasion, he wrote her a letter that described how much he loved her, what their relationship meant to him and asked her more than once in that letter for a second chance or at least questioned her happiness, and he also tweeted out pictures of them with captions that were quite romantic and Andi had to deal with all of this while she was engaged to someone else for almost three months.

Do people really think she would be super sweet, all over him and compassionate to Nick? Why the heck would she? Her demeanor was stern, but her answers to questions were perfect.

I can understand people saying she should have handled the initial break up differently, but for me, no way in heck should Andi have acted differently at the ATFR.

   

[Guest]

I forgot to add in response to the Bachelor bubble. That was the difference IMO between Nick sleeping with Andi, and Andi sleeping with Nick. One behaved according to their morals and the other behaved according to whatever.

  finally ... someone said it, what's been bugging me all along ...   
I don't mind or care who slept with whom ...
but it does appear like one was following his beliefs, taking it as a real relationship development on the road towards engagement ...
when the other ... was living in her bubble [of the game and FS secrecy] (that "was supposed to stay private")...
but then if I'm wrong ... and she did act accordingly to her own beliefs ... then she doesn't need to feel any embarrassment or shame [on her 1on1 with herself] and the comment doesn't need to be taken "as a hit below the belt" and neither do her fans need to defend her .. because Andi can own her own actions as a big, mature girl she is ... and be proud of herself.

I have read Nick's blogpost many times now and I love that he can express his view of love and having sex and this is something worth discussing.  BUT what bothers me about the blogpost is the timing and him trying to justify himself and blaming Andi for his feelings. He went on a dating show, talked and made out with the lead for approximately 10-15 hours with cameras surrounding them.THEN they had the privacy in the fantasy suit. If he thinks having sex in this scenario , is an act of solidifying their love, especially when there are two more men in the running, is strange and hard for me to believe.

If he had been dating someone exclusively for many months, then had sex and felt the deep bonding I would understand. And if in that scenario the girl would have dumped him afterwards I would understand his reaction, but I'm sorry not in the Bachelorette scenario.

And if "making love" had this deep meaning to him, it was his responsibility to say no, not Andi's. JMHO

[Guest]

I guess I truly just do not understand how people think Andi should have acted differently with Nick at the ATFR. Andi was different than most leads. For Andi, her F2 guy tried to get in contact with her on more than one occasion, he wrote her a letter that described how much he loved her, what their relationship meant to him and asked her more than once in that letter for a second chance or at least questioned her happiness, and he also tweeted out pictures of them with captions that were quite romantic and Andi had to deal with all of this while she was engaged to someone else for almost three months.

Do people really think she would be super sweet, all over him and compassionate to Nick? Why the heck would she? Her demeanor was stern, but her answers to questions were perfect.

I can understand people saying she should have handled the initial break up differently, but for me, no way in heck should Andi have acted differently at the ATFR.

She told Ali he didn't try to contact her so I'm confused about that. If it were me and I was upset about any of the above, I would have just called him up and talked to him long before ATFR. It's funny that she came off as passive aggressive in this after Nick mentioned that in the video. She's mad about whatever, but instead of just communicating her feelings, she avoids and ignores him, sits by why her friend attacks him and finally when push comes to shove, acts put out that she has to deal with him.

[Guest]

I guess I truly just do not understand how people think Andi should have acted differently with Nick at the ATFR. Andi was different than most leads. For Andi, her F2 guy tried to get in contact with her on more than one occasion, he wrote her a letter that described how much he loved her, what their relationship meant to him and asked her more than once in that letter for a second chance or at least questioned her happiness, and he also tweeted out pictures of them with captions that were quite romantic and Andi had to deal with all of this while she was engaged to someone else for almost three months.

Do people really think she would be super sweet, all over him and compassionate to Nick? Why the heck would she? Her demeanor was stern, but her answers to questions were perfect.

I can understand people saying she should have handled the initial break up differently, but for me, no way in heck should Andi have acted differently at the ATFR.

She told Ali he didn't try to contact her so I'm confused about that. If it were me and I was upset about any of the above, I would have just called him up and talked to him long before ATFR. It's funny that she came off as passive aggressive in this after Nick mentioned that in the video. She's mad about whatever, but instead of just communicating her feelings, she avoids and ignores him, sits by why her friend attacks him and finally when push comes to shove, acts put out that she has to deal with him.

Where is this Ali/Andi conversation you are referring to? I would like to read it. Chris Harrison has been saying that it was Andi who turned down Nick's requests of seeing her in Mexico and MTA, because the timing didn't feel right. Andi has said she wanted Nick to see the whole season hoping that watching would give him a better understanding.

IMO if anyone is to be blamed it's ABC for using Nick for ratings. They should have provided him with a therapist instead.

[Guest]

I guess I truly just do not understand how people think Andi should have acted differently with Nick at the ATFR. Andi was different than most leads. For Andi, her F2 guy tried to get in contact with her on more than one occasion, he wrote her a letter that described how much he loved her, what their relationship meant to him and asked her more than once in that letter for a second chance or at least questioned her happiness, and he also tweeted out pictures of them with captions that were quite romantic and Andi had to deal with all of this while she was engaged to someone else for almost three months.

Do people really think she would be super sweet, all over him and compassionate to Nick? Why the heck would she? Her demeanor was stern, but her answers to questions were perfect.

I can understand people saying she should have handled the initial break up differently, but for me, no way in heck should Andi have acted differently at the ATFR.

She told Ali he didn't try to contact her so I'm confused about that. If it were me and I was upset about any of the above, I would have just called him up and talked to him long before ATFR. It's funny that she came off as passive aggressive in this after Nick mentioned that in the video. She's mad about whatever, but instead of just communicating her feelings, she avoids and ignores him, sits by why her friend attacks him and finally when push comes to shove, acts put out that she has to deal with him.

Where is this Ali/Andi conversation you are referring to? I would like to read it. Chris Harrison has been saying that it was Andi who turned down Nick's requests of seeing her in Mexico and MTA, because the timing didn't feel right. Andi has said she wanted Nick to see the whole season hoping that watching would give him a better understanding.

IMO if anyone is to be blamed it's ABC for using Nick for ratings. They should have provided him with a therapist instead.

It was talked about the day it aired, but I've not seen a video. Ali said that she spoke to Andi and she told her that Nick hadn't tried to reach her. I'd like to see it too if you find it. I think if Andi had talked to him, attempted to get things resolved and he continued, her demeanor would have made more sense to me. If she was upset with what he was doing on twitter, I don't see why she didn't call him. Maybe he was/is seeing a therapist. I hope so. I really felt like CH knew he was adding fuel to the fire when he asked Andi if she ever loved Nick. For all we know, the producers could have been telling him she was conflicted about her decision.

[Guest]

She told Ali he didn't try to contact her so I'm confused about that. If it were me and I was upset about any of the above, I would have just called him up and talked to him long before ATFR. It's funny that she came off as passive aggressive in this after Nick mentioned that in the video. She's mad about whatever, but instead of just communicating her feelings, she avoids and ignores him, sits by why her friend attacks him and finally when push comes to shove, acts put out that she has to deal with him.

Where is this Ali/Andi conversation you are referring to? I would like to read it. Chris Harrison has been saying that it was Andi who turned down Nick's requests of seeing her in Mexico and MTA, because the timing didn't feel right. Andi has said she wanted Nick to see the whole season hoping that watching would give him a better understanding.

IMO if anyone is to be blamed it's ABC for using Nick for ratings. They should have provided him with a therapist instead.

It was talked about the day it aired, but I've not seen a video. Ali said that she spoke to Andi and she told her that Nick hadn't tried to reach her. I'd like to see it too if you find it. I think if Andi had talked to him, attempted to get things resolved and he continued, her demeanor would have made more sense to me. If she was upset with what he was doing on twitter, I don't see why she didn't call him. Maybe he was/is seeing a therapist. I hope so. I really felt like CH knew he was adding fuel to the fire when he asked Andi if she ever loved Nick. For all we know, the producers could have been telling him she was conflicted about her decision.

Thanks, I'll keep googling the Ali segment. I'll let you know if I find it. I can see the producers encouraging Nick, to create drama and perhaps it was pay-back-time for him due to the plane incident. But using a heartbroken guy for ratings should never be acceptable.

[Guest]

^^ I think it was a day after Nick was on E!, so probably July 30th

[happygolucky]

Litta - thank you   
Stuckinsc - as always a pleasure [even for the eyes]    

... I'll come back some time later on the topic of sex ... tho' I think I've said it all there is, so maybe I'll just reread yours and give you my response.


Now the issue of ATFR ...

I actually have no issue with Andi for her behavior/demeanor there ... I actually get it, all summed up, I completely understand her stand-offish attitude towards Nick [the same as I understand him and why he was taken aback].

I go against the majority probably, but I'm not a "cry-girl" type ... (I cry a lot, usually when moved by smth and out of happiness) ... so whether she would cry or give the puppy eyes ... I don't care ... that wouldn't change much for me.

The demeanor and the attitude of Andi ... that was disturbing to me watching ... was her "break-up scene" with Nick ... when she came to his room...

now, I know she had to get engaged the same day, so probably her thoughts were already flying towards that happy moment and she didn't want to ruin the morning by starting off in tears (BTW, she did cry, so nobody is criticizing her for lack of tears) ...

but she came there to deliver an execution ... "literally" ... we were all waiting for that moment, when she would break down to Nick, the frontrunner, arrogant, over-confident and self-assured guy who thought he would be marrying the princess, that HE IS NOT THE ONE...
we all knew that that would be the moment the head would fall off ... or the crown ...
and for some people that was the moment of pleasure and excitement, a payback for all the BS he has done and said throughout the season ...

and she did not only do that ... but she also cut the legs ...

she came there, said what she thought needed to be said (great, I could even agree with her not being a match for each other) ... but then she said some things out of line ... and too much ... and in all of that ... SHE NEVER apologized for anything ... she never said sorry for your hurt ... and yes, she was crying ... crying for herself ... because she was about to get engaged and she didn't want to deal with unnecessary drama beforehand ...

but she just finished a game with Nick ... a game where the lead scores ... and a runner-up loses [big time] ... and she didn't have enough of decency to actually give a guy some "hug" ... emotionally ... not physically.

And there was no plane video out there yet, there was no calls or letters written to annoy her ... so

what was her excuse then?

Oh yeah ... he dared to say to her "that she took it too far".

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