Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[isittrue]

In addition, if we are going to buy the stories the tabloids are selling, what about the recent articles on L&S that state there may be trouble in the relationship? Basically, the tabloids might give you a chance to guess the ending and who is F1 but as far as the story behind what and how it happens and the total aftermath, I would not put too much stock in the tabloids as being total truth..

[Ash2214]

Lucas isn't trying to say that every time a tabloid talks about the show or the people on it that the tabloid's information is correct. But, it appears towards the end of the season a certain magazine or two are given some inside information. As we can see with US Weekly this season, right before the finale aired they were actually correct. The second guy was trying to get in touch with Andi on more than one occasion and still wasn't over her and was upset with the whole situation, but Andi refused to see him and was happy with her choice. We saw that play out on our television on the ATFR.

The magazine isn't given names, or at least they don't publish them, but right before the finale comes out, they are given a bit of the storyline. It helps drive up interest for the finale too.

[isittrue]

Lucas isn't trying to say that every time a tabloid talks about the show or the people on it that the tabloid's information is correct. But, it appears towards the end of the season a certain magazine or two are given some inside information. As we can see with US Weekly this season, right before the finale aired they were actually correct. The second guy was trying to get in touch with Andi on more than one occasion and still wasn't over her and was upset with the whole situation, but Andi refused to see him and was happy with her choice. We saw that play out on our television on the ATFR.

The magazine isn't given names, or at least they don't publish them, but right before the finale comes out, they are given a bit of the storyline. It helps drive up interest for the finale too.

.

Yes and I agreed with him and you. My point was that a lot of details may be embellished to create a better story.

[happygolucky]

Lucas isn't trying to say that every time a tabloid talks about the show or the people on it that the tabloid's information is correct.

I don't think I claimed that.
I actually bolded the most important part ... which I agree with ... the stories that are shown to us are accurately written.
All I added was that people believe in those kind of magazines, but where the truth lies may always be a question mark, since they don't go to direct subject, but they speak to a third party and no matter how reliable the source is ... one thing is a story, one thing is a reality, or many of them, depending from which angle it's taken and who you ask.

[ironcat]

I would guess that there's always some embellishment, but we just don't know how much there was in this case.  Maybe Nick wasn't bitter, but maybe he was; my guess is he was at least somewhat bitter; many of Nick's fans felt he was entitled to be bitter from what he went through, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities.   

Same thing with trying to contact Andi.  We know he did, but whether or how much it was "encouraged" by the producers is up for debate.

Based on his behavior at ATFR, I think it's accurate to say that at that point, he wasn't over Andi, or at least he wasn't over the whole experience yet, and still was looking for closure. So that part was pretty true.

[Lucas15]

Lucas isn't trying to say that every time a tabloid talks about the show or the people on it that the tabloid's information is correct. But, it appears towards the end of the season a certain magazine or two are given some inside information. As we can see with US Weekly this season, right before the finale aired they were actually correct.

Precisely; I contrast what US Weekly wrote with what OK Magazine wrote. The OK Magazine article could have been written with no more information than what Nick said in the plane video (which everyone knew about) so I believe they had no inside source, they only embellished what was a public source.

The US Weekly article said a number of things that were not public knowledge and that just happened to be found, once the show aired, to be accurate or at least accurate up until the time of the live ATFR (when no one could have known what was going to happen because it hadn't happened yet). These select tabloids are given inside information so they can write accurate stories. If their stories always turned out to be complete fabrications they lose credibility with their readers and usefulness to the show, so the show makes sure they are accurate.

It's simply another piece of information available to sleuthers who are trying to figure out the back story behind the season. And there's always a back story.

[soccermom333]

Without wanting to add the fuel to the fire ... and I sincerely hope the awkward conversation has died ... I really have no problem with either fan coming here and join the discussion ... for what this thread is created - Nick (good & bad, positive & negative) ...

I do tho' sometimes feel like I need to "defend" Nick in regard to Josh and Andi relationship ... which to me is futile.

So speaking for myself (don't want to put words in everyone's mouth from team Nick):
Josh and Andi relationship during the show and Nick and Andi relationship during the show are 2 different and separate relationships.
If Nick's fans are discussing Andi and her conduct during the show and post show is because she was "Nick's girlfriend for a minute" and "a possible fiancee for a second" ... it has nothing to do with Josh or his relationship with Andi ...
it's Andi alone ... and her attitude and behavior in relation to Nick that is put in question, that is put under microscope (for the pleasure of discussion).

I don't feel the need to talk about Josh or defend Nick for how he made Josh feel with his declarations/comments ... because frankly, Josh is the other guy who got the girl out of this game, Nick is the loser who not only lost the girl, but has realized he never actually had her.
And as a Nick's fan ... I'm extremely happy that Nick didn't end up with Andi (so he can thanks his lucky star) and I'm happy for Josh to have a girlfriend he dreamed of (because people should find their happiness) and if I ever feel the need to discuss Josh and his feelings I would go in his thread ...but I don't, because I don't care, no matter how great of a guy he is ... doesn't ignite any particular interest in me to know more of what I've seen during the show.

That's why it is fascinating how much of an interest Nick cumulates.
With every act, every word, every gesture, every attire, every tweet, retweet, favorites, every photo, every other relationship outside of the show.

    Nick in my book is a winner!  Yes, he "lost" the girl and for a moment he has to deal with a little heartache but it sure beats spending a lifetime of anguish and pain if he ended up with Andi.  Nick is better off without her, got the closure he needed, got his side of the story out there, and has been moving on from that chapter in his life.  I am thankful he got to see her true colors so that if for some crazy reason he ever thinks what if in the future, he will always be reminded of her cold exterior towards him at ATFR.  And I am pretty confident that Nick will not want to end up with somebody like that, IMHO.

It is posts like this that i feel the need to come in and defend Josh and Andi. In this case it is to defend Andi. IMHO, I don't believe a life with her would be filled with "anguish and pain." I believe andi is better off without Nick. Opposite of what you think but I am entitled. I think she was a wonderful bachelorette. Maybe Nick is reminded of Andi's "cold exterior," but Andi, imo, will always remember Nick calling her out on national TV. People forgive but never forget. "We" come to this thread to defend and express our opinions because it is a discussion thread and where the opposing opinions are being made.

Josh and andi make each other happy, period. I wish them well, as I wish all the guys from the season well.

[happygolucky]

It is posts like this that i feel the need to come in and defend Josh and Andi.  In this case it is to defend Andi.  IMHO, I don't believe a life with her would be filled with "anguish and pain."  I believe andi is better off without Nick.  Opposite of what you think but I am entitled.  I think she was a wonderful bachelorette.  Maybe Nick is reminded of Andi's "cold exterior," but Andi, imo, will always remember Nick calling her out on national TV.  People forgive but never forget.    "We" come to this thread to defend and express our opinions because it is a discussion thread and where the opposing opinions are being made.  

Josh and andi make each other happy, period.  I wish them well, as I wish all the guys from the season well.  

Considering, that it was my post that prompted you to state your opinion ... I would like to shake hands. Nice to "get to know you" Soccermom ... through the posts.

I don't think my comment voiced any opposition to any of "us" coming here and sharing "our" points of view.

Quite contrary, I think the whole debate is created among those "who support Nick" and those "who don't" ... and it doesn't even matter whether they like him or not.

Because there are people who aren't Nick's "fans" (meaning they are not particularly fond of him) who support some of his actions (the matter of discussion) and people who are Nick's "fans" (meaning, they like him) and don't support every of his actions (again taking each step under the observation to debate).

Those who don't support Nick have tendency to defend Andi, who is a main adversary in Nick's story ... the girl who broke his heart (for those who believe in Nick's genuine feelings of being in-love), who played him (for those who believe she never really had strong feelings for him), who doesn't like him (as of ... well, not sure when the opinion of her shifted, but my guess is long before ATFR, and I think pretty much all of us are on the same page here .. that she just doesn't like him much - right now ... then some might use different words to describe), who played the game and at the end chose her best match (I know, some still think it otherwise).

And I didn't write the quoted post for those who defend Andi or try to explain her actions ... in regards to Nick. I am very aware that's how it goes in this kind of discussion thread. That's the beauty.

But I don't think that Nick is responsible for Josh's treatment (whether by his or other fans or TPTB), Josh's feelings (if connected to Andi, I understand if Nick has an involvement, but it's Andi a primal cause) or Josh's relationship with Andi (they were and continue to be their own league). Not before, not after the show. Josh is his own man ... if there are issues between Nick and Josh to talk about ... to discuss ... it's whether one said or done something to each other directly (SM is still quite direct ... since most use it these days as a instant messaging).

Also I don't think in my message have I ever said that Andi would be better with Nick, knowing Unknown ... neither has she.

So yes, I agree with you Soccermom, Andi is better off without Nick.
That has been a clear message she made with her decision, by choosing the best for her ... and that is Josh.
And because of that I do believe Nick's fans (not all, since not all actually see it this way) can say now that the imaginary life of Nick and Andy together wouldn't be as pretty as they might imagined before the finale... since new facts and information have arisen ... and with each day we get more confirmation that those two are not the characters that could make a good fit.

And I don't think anyone is forbidden to write that... so please, one thing I do ask ... is to not assume I am anyway against you writing whatever you want ... don't make of me something I'm not. With that I hope I was clear and understood.

[ironcat]

The old adage, "One man's feast is another man's famine" is fitting here. We now all can agree that Andi would not have made a good match for Nick (and vice versa), but for someone else (and hopefully that someone is Josh) she will be the woman of his dreams and a loving partner forever. There's no reason to classify ANY of these people as romantic poison based on what happened on this show. Hey, I'm willing to even give Chris Bukowski the benefit of the doubt that if the right woman came along, he might make a good husband some day.

[sbolduc]

The old adage, "One man's feast is another man's famine" is fitting here.  We now all can agree that Andi would not have made a good match for Nick (and vice versa), but for someone else (and hopefully that someone is Josh) she will be the woman of his dreams and a loving partner forever.  There's no reason to classify ANY of these people as romantic poison based on what happened on this show.  Hey, I'm willing to even give Chris Bukowski the benefit of the doubt that if the right woman came along, he might make a good husband some day.

AGREED!

We do not know these people, I believe more of their true colours will shine in the coming months.

A great example is Jef vs. Ryan of Emily's season. A lot of people thought Jef was this great guy who was ready to settle down and would give Emily the world. Well, IMO, Jef has shown he is not at all ready to settle down and has made some questionable decisions and comments that do not shine positively on him. Not saying he is a horrible person, don't know him, but I would say that he not the person a lot people saw on their screens. Ryan, a lot of people didn't like, thought he was arrogant and cocky and just looking to be the next Bachelor or to pick up girls in Atlanta (I think thats where he is from). He met his fiance very soon after the show ended, got engaged sometime last year and has gushed about her ever since, and seems to definitely be ready to settle down.

We do not know these people from a highly edited show, we won't know these people after the fact either. But I do believe we will learn more about what their true colours are in the months to come, especially with how they all deal with this new found fame.

[GuardianAngel]

OT

I don't know how the other Josh or Andi fans felt but I am just going to speak for myself, all season long it felt like if you believed that Josh was F1 and their fan you were called out by the MODS more than anything, it felt to me that most MODS didn't like Josh or Andi (which is ok) so it was hard for me to feel that it was fair and balanced just like in this thread it's the Josh/Andi fans who are constantly put on blast.... Don't mean to offend anyone but, just wow...

Just so you know and everyone else knows,  this couldn't be further from the truth, and I'd like to make this very clear.

Whatever opinions any Mod has posted, it was their opinions, whether it was positive or negative towards Josh Andi or Nick or whomever. It might be difficult to understand that there are people who don't live and breath on a favourite contestant and can comment on what they see without emotions getting involved. So to say that a Mod called out anyone that favoured Josh or Andi is inaccurate. I've stated many times, I don't care for Andi, I dislike her a lot, I think she's a snob, a good actress, and insensitive to anyone's feelings. This started from JPG's season. Does this mean I am calling anyone out because they are a fan of hers?

I like Josh, I like Nick. That is my opinion, whether posters like Andi Josh or Nick, it matters not to me, or any Mod, who they like or don't like.

The issue IMO is people want to defend their favourite. Rather than trying to defend, or change anyone's minds, it should be thought as "posting opinions".

Also, if there are any issues with posts, we have repeatedly suggested using the report post button which we get notified of immediately and which ever Mod is around can deal with it quickly. We all try to read every single post, if there is an issue it might be awhile before someone catches anything that is not within the rules.

If anyone has an issue with a Mod, or Admin, out of common courtesy a PM would be appreciated.

[stuckinsc]

Without wanting to add the fuel to the fire ... and I sincerely hope the awkward conversation has died ... I really have no problem with either fan coming here and join the discussion ... for what this thread is created - Nick (good & bad, positive & negative) ...

I do tho' sometimes feel like I need to "defend" Nick in regard to Josh and Andi relationship ... which to me is futile.

So speaking for myself (don't want to put words in everyone's mouth from team Nick):
Josh and Andi relationship during the show and Nick and Andi relationship during the show are 2 different and separate relationships.
If Nick's fans are discussing Andi and her conduct during the show and post show is because she was "Nick's girlfriend for a minute" and "a possible fiancee for a second" ... it has nothing to do with Josh or his relationship with Andi ...
it's Andi alone ... and her attitude and behavior in relation to Nick that is put in question, that is put under microscope (for the pleasure of discussion).

I don't feel the need to talk about Josh or defend Nick for how he made Josh feel with his declarations/comments ... because frankly, Josh is the other guy who got the girl out of this game, Nick is the loser who not only lost the girl, but has realized he never actually had her.
And as a Nick's fan ... I'm extremely happy that Nick didn't end up with Andi (so he can thanks his lucky star) and I'm happy for Josh to have a girlfriend he dreamed of (because people should find their happiness) and if I ever feel the need to discuss Josh and his feelings I would go in his thread ...but I don't, because I don't care, no matter how great of a guy he is ... doesn't ignite any particular interest in me to know more of what I've seen during the show.

That's why it is fascinating how much of an interest Nick cumulates.
With every act, every word, every gesture, every attire, every tweet, retweet, favorites, every photo, every other relationship outside of the show.

    Nick in my book is a winner!  Yes, he "lost" the girl and for a moment he has to deal with a little heartache but it sure beats spending a lifetime of anguish and pain if he ended up with Andi.  Nick is better off without her, got the closure he needed, got his side of the story out there, and has been moving on from that chapter in his life.  I am thankful he got to see her true colors so that if for some crazy reason he ever thinks what if in the future, he will always be reminded of her cold exterior towards him at ATFR.  And I am pretty confident that Nick will not want to end up with somebody like that, IMHO.

It is posts like this that i feel the need to come in and defend Josh and Andi.  In this case it is to defend Andi.  IMHO, I don't believe a life with her would be filled with "anguish and pain."  I believe andi is better off without Nick.  Opposite of what you think but I am entitled.  I think she was a wonderful bachelorette.  Maybe Nick is reminded of Andi's "cold exterior," but Andi, imo, will always remember Nick calling her out on national TV.  People forgive but never forget.    "We" come to this thread to defend and express our opinions because it is a discussion thread and where the opposing opinions are being made.  

Josh and andi make each other happy, period.  I wish them well, as I wish all the guys from the season well.  

Let me say that both Josh and Andi as a couple and Nick alone are all winners. It has become apparent that Josh is what Andi needs. Josh and Andi are very happy and doing well in Atlanta. Andi chose the right man for her. I like Josh a lot and I will confess since I don't like Andi a lot that I still wish better for him. But as long as he is happy, then I don't wish for them to break up or anything and just my opinion, but I hope being around the Murrays who I really like will soften some of the things I don't like about Andi. Josh accepts her for who she is, so I think it is a great foundation for maybe letting her learn. I would love to have this discussion in the Josh and Andi discussion thread, since in my opinion that is where it belongs. It has nothing to do with Nick.

I also think Nick is a winner. He and Andi would not have been a great fit. I do defend Nick in all the bad behavior that both Andi and Nick displayed since the season ended. Why? Because Nick has at least apologized for his behavior and wished the couple well. Andi has not apologized and whether she meant to or not she did devalue any feelings she had for Nick. As emusha pointed out, the tone between her interview with Jezebel and her actions at the AFTR were very different. I don't care if Nick's letter pissed her off. It is immature in my opinion for her to strike out in anger. Just because Nick did wrong does not justify Andi doing wrong. It wasn't done without thought in the moment, she stewed on it and got angrier and angrier. Again, Andi has all the power and she was the one to break up, so yes, I expect more compassion from her, just like she expected it from JPG. I don't think Nick should have said what he did. I know he was hurt and I believe it slipped out, but still he shouldn't have said it. He apologized and has turned conversation about the AFTR to discussions about sex and relationships and each and every time wished Josh and Andi well. Since then Nick's uncle died. Andi has taken the time to favor a tweet Marcus wrote criticizing Nick, but couldn't take the time to favor a tweet Marcus wrote giving Nick condolences about his uncle. Again, this speaks about who Andi is to me. If she is happy with Josh and got the right outcome (which I think she did), then grow up and let it go. If you can bother to favor something criticizing Nick, then be a compassionate human being and favor something wishing him sympathy for the loss of someone he loved. So yes, Nick got lucky too. Andi isn't who Nick thought she was. Doesn't mean she is all bad, but she would never be good for Nick. Obviously with her anger at Nick, he never would have been good for her either.

And I don't think this post requires a defense of Josh and Andi, because in no way am I say Josh and Andi are bad. I don't like parts of Andi, and until she shows me that she has grown up and has more compassion, I won't like her. That is my right. I am not doing anything to hurt Andi, I just don't care for her.

As this is the Nick thread, I don't see why posts about Nick require a defense of Josh and Andi. To me they should be two separate things. I hope that if I can ever get anyone to discuss Josh and Andi in their discussion thread, that I can keep my discussion about them without needing to defend Nick.

Again, just me, but I like flawed people as long as they show me mostly good and when they do something to hurt others show that they realize it and want to do better. For me that is enough.

I welcome anyone who ever they like to post about Nick and to discuss this flawed human that I like. I just don't think it has to be about Josh at all and hopefully as we get further and further from the show it will be less and less about Andi either. Nick can't change what he has done, he can only show us who he chooses to be moving forward.

If this post violates any forum rules please feel free to delete or edit it.

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