Re: Nick Viall Bachelorette 10 - Fan Forum - Updates - Discussion - Thread #9

[Guest]

Thanks dear Mura,

The Anthony Robbins unlimited power principle makes a lot of sense given what we’ve seen and I think you have it correctly pegged; Nick was willing to risk it all for love, Andi was not … and so the fact that they both experienced the same level of passion and had diametrically opposed responses is just very very hard to reconcile.  

And in those circumstances, it makes sense that Nick would continue to press on for a positive love resolution and Andi would retreat to her current militant anti love position.  They are opposite sides of the same coin; both holding on for dear life.  Nick called Andi stubborn, but he is as well; stubborn in terms of believing the reality that they two of them shared and being unwilling to let it go.  

And to quote what I wrote earlier, I have ZERO doubt that Nick is misreading the situation: The thing is I trust Nick... and I believe Nick when he assessed that Andi was falling in love with him. He said he never felt it before. I believe that Nick had the correctly tuned measuring stick for whether or not she was deceiving him. Of course, what I saw on tv (and what he said he also saw watching the episodes back) only supported his assessment. It's not like Nick saw something different from what he experienced.  

So I applaud Nick for being unwilling to let it go, why would he… from his perspective what he had with Andi was a once in a lifetime love… one you don’t throw away.  He literally and figuratively prostrated himself at her feet, left no stone unturned, gave her every possible chance to come to her senses.  The fact that Nick was willing to continue to pursue Andi even after he was rejected multiple times doesn’t make him crazy or a stalker, rather a prince, a heroic figure willing to fight the dragons (and yes, in this case, Andi is the dragon!!) to win his princess.  The storybook he wrote is the perfect reflection of their experience.

Nick knows Andi, sees all of her, right into the depths of her soul… there’s no one or nothing that would be more effective than Nick in reaching Andi.  And if I’m being honest, a part of me is still waiting for Andi to come to her senses and live out the happy ending to their fairytale…

I understand your POV Sue...ITA that Nick was not delusional..he sensed ' Andi' with both his heart and mind..

I am fine with Meandi's decision. Its her life. I just hope she doesnt do oscar-caliber-acting with Josh and the Murrays..i thought Josh was a great guy with a loving family.

I have more problems in how TPTB portrayed Jodi's story. See, in my understanding, if Meandi chose Josh bc he is Meandi's great love, that he had to let go a 'good love' (Nick), why on earth:
-  they didnt show any montage of Jodi journey, but Nick instead (on the FS) with the fairy-tale ish touch?  :shocked!: 
-  they replaced the segment of the supposed Final-couple montage with all of the hideous frowning Meandi's footage?   
-  they topped this Great Love season with the frown cat gift instead of a honeymoon gift (eg ala Jash and Aliberto)?   

that leads me to these curio :
- does that mean TPTB have only a little 'faith' in this final couple?.
- Meandi got the frown montage instead of the LS montage= She is no princess to TPTB? (compared that for instance with Ali, Ash,Em, Des's FRC and ATFR- you'll see the difference-- they all had their LS montage on the FRC/ATFR)
- does the cat gift implying this season's joke ' to let the cat out of the bag' finally?'--something stinky was hidden all along?

things that makes me still     . I mean ,if TPTB highlighted Jodi's LS - for instance, how she struggled and showed a segment of emphasizing the Great Love she had with Josh in the final episode-FRC-ATFR, i wouldnt have those curio at the first place..

oh well.. i guess time with tell...or maybe it will still remain as another Ette X-Files till the end of Bach world for me....

I 100% agree with both Sue and Mura! How surprising ...   

Andi is no Barbie Doll ... she's got a lot of sides to her and like all of us, a lot of flaws. That said, the Andi we saw with Nick (the guy/relationship that she "aspired" to) during the season was a whole lot different than the bitchy and cold Andi from end of production to today. Will the real Andi please stand up?

And, if the "real" Andi is the one who actually complained about Josh chewing with his mouth open in the People Magazine interview, well, Nick is very lucky to be hanging with his buds instead of getting publicly humiliated like poor Josh.

This is really good analysis, I'm impressed.  I had not noticed much of what you are talking about, I was wondering why ATFR felt like a continuation of the Nick show, and didn't realize so much was missing that usually is there, especially the happy couple re-watching their proposal, none of that was in, and as you said, no gift from the show.  The synopsis that you wrote Sue is really good too, just more evidence of Andi falling in love with Nick, could she really have faked it all?  I wish she would be honest about it.  In the People magazine video from AOL, she says she fell in love with Josh, and knew it was him at the end of the fantasy suite date when they were sitting in the kitchen, on the counter talking.  That is spin, in my opinion.  She wants to make it seem like she wasn't leading Nick on, because before she clearly said she fell in love with Josh when she first saw him.  (Would that be before the show when they met?  Or on the show?) In any event, I just don't believe much of what she says now. Plus, I'm not that interested, I'm much more interested in hearing about Nick. 

I thoroughly enjoy everyone's analysis!

[Guest]

Have fun and make sure to bring your camera just in case!

If you see him, ask him about the bracelet please.

As far as the clues this season, I'm a tad bitter about the crunchy peanut butter tweets from Nick and his dad. You don't screw with your most loyal fans and the timing leaves no doubt in my mind that they were.

Andi told her sister about how Nick sees her soul and describes the intensity at MTP. Seems like Nick is still the F1 at that moment. Then she's calling Josh "babe" in the next scene. Conclusion: by that point she was acting, so the only question is when did the acting begin or was it all an act? I'm sure poor Nick wonders that too.

Remember in the bloopers when Andi is doing an ITM and the toilet flushes? Andi laughs, "at least they're washing their hands." It could have been said during the season, but i sensed it was a laugh about Dylan (not washing hands) which would mean it was post filming. Was that a look at Andi faking her ITMs?

ITA with the ATFR being an extension of the Nick show and ending with grumpy cat. TPTB do not like Andi. She was a good sport about grumpy cat, but ouch! that was a jab at her, especially since the proposal was left out.

Grace, good post -
Interesting points about the PB tweets
A big question for me is when... when did Andi turn from Nick to Josh.  I actually don't think Andi was acting at Nick's MTP... I thought Nick was F1, but his MTP date was first.... and maybe it was a combination of the impression Josh made on her family and her LCD with Josh that turned the tide... because for sure by Nick's LCD something was different.

One thing stuck out to me that made me think that Josh and Andi were in collusion, that it was Josh from the beginning.  At the very last rose ceremony, Andi gives the first rose to Nick, then the second rose to Josh.  As she goes to hug Nick, she looks right at Josh and he gives her this look that is so goofy, and she is smiling like crazy.  She isn't in to the hug with Nick, she is all about Josh, just staring at him, they really connected in that moment.  I wonder if it wasn't Josh from the beginning, and she just acted.  Then, as soon as I think that, I review in my mind all that Nick and Andi's love story made me feel, and how real it seemed, and I think she must have really loved him.  What a mystery!!!

[Guest]

Nice post Mura.  That really left me wondering too.  Never quite seen a final couple that should be the show's new poster couple treated like that.  And they didn't get to watch their proposal back also.  Def a strange send off for the new couple by TPTB.  Curious as to why.

.thanks Relaxing. more than good to know that im not alone having this curio...    ..aha. oh yes!..How could i forget the Elephanty point: watching back their proposal?  :shocked!: . I mean, its the sole segment where we can watch the final couple got teary eyed and kissy2 cuddly2 watching their out-of-body moments     and MFnCO chose to not giving their beloved ADA that ?   . They had rewarded Meandi with the hottest bunch of guys ever for her stint with JPab at FS fiasco..but they couldnt honor her season with the final couple's memorable moments?...  

Oh well, maybe we will get our particular 'cat' regarding this curious matter when the time is right, relaxing...   

Here's what I think ... remember the #LiveLikeEric hashtag that Elan promoted so much at start of season? Remember how Josh didn't use the hashtag but Nick did (and Andi did too but I think she had to use it for PR purposes)? Well, I think the way that TPTB dedicated season to Eric was by focusing the show on Nick and his journey more so than Andi & Josh.

Nick and Eric obviously formed some type of bond during the very short time that show aired. Eric was a real guy who put it all out there and encouraged Andi to be genuine/do the same. Andi's response was anger and kicking him to curb.

Similar to Eric, Nick was also the guy who was genuine throughout. He put it all out there and can't recall his exact words but something along the lines of "giving into the process." And what happened to Nick? She kicked him to the curb too.

So many of us have said that if it wasn't for Nick, there would not have been a season. He was the reason we tuned in. Nick is someone who embodies the LiveLikeEric theme.

To dedicate the season to Eric meant focusing on his friend in the end ... NOT ... the woman who Eric called out to be a fake.

This is excellent MVMom! I'm going with this - great idea and I think this makes sense of it all in my mind - the only thing that has thus far. Thanks!!

[Guest]

Have fun and make sure to bring your camera just in case!

If you see him, ask him about the bracelet please.

As far as the clues this season, I'm a tad bitter about the crunchy peanut butter tweets from Nick and his dad. You don't screw with your most loyal fans and the timing leaves no doubt in my mind that they were.

Andi told her sister about how Nick sees her soul and describes the intensity at MTP. Seems like Nick is still the F1 at that moment. Then she's calling Josh "babe" in the next scene. Conclusion: by that point she was acting, so the only question is when did the acting begin or was it all an act? I'm sure poor Nick wonders that too.

Remember in the bloopers when Andi is doing an ITM and the toilet flushes? Andi laughs, "at least they're washing their hands." It could have been said during the season, but i sensed it was a laugh about Dylan (not washing hands) which would mean it was post filming. Was that a look at Andi faking her ITMs?

ITA with the ATFR being an extension of the Nick show and ending with grumpy cat. TPTB do not like Andi. She was a good sport about grumpy cat, but ouch! that was a jab at her, especially since the proposal was left out.

Grace, good post -
Interesting points about the PB tweets
A big question for me is when... when did Andi turn from Nick to Josh.  I actually don't think Andi was acting at Nick's MTP... I thought Nick was F1, but his MTP date was first.... and maybe it was a combination of the impression Josh made on her family and her LCD with Josh that turned the tide... because for sure by Nick's LCD something was different.

I think this is probably the most haunting part for him.. what was real and what wasn't? If you watch the evening portion of the LCD and try to read her lips when there are VOs she is telling Nick about all his first and she repeats, be confident 3 more times. WTH is wrong with her?!

[Guest]

If you see him, ask him about the bracelet please.

As far as the clues this season, I'm a tad bitter about the crunchy peanut butter tweets from Nick and his dad. You don't screw with your most loyal fans and the timing leaves no doubt in my mind that they were.

Andi told her sister about how Nick sees her soul and describes the intensity at MTP. Seems like Nick is still the F1 at that moment. Then she's calling Josh "babe" in the next scene. Conclusion: by that point she was acting, so the only question is when did the acting begin or was it all an act? I'm sure poor Nick wonders that too.

Remember in the bloopers when Andi is doing an ITM and the toilet flushes? Andi laughs, "at least they're washing their hands." It could have been said during the season, but i sensed it was a laugh about Dylan (not washing hands) which would mean it was post filming. Was that a look at Andi faking her ITMs?

ITA with the ATFR being an extension of the Nick show and ending with grumpy cat. TPTB do not like Andi. She was a good sport about grumpy cat, but ouch! that was a jab at her, especially since the proposal was left out.

Grace, good post -
Interesting points about the PB tweets
A big question for me is when... when did Andi turn from Nick to Josh.  I actually don't think Andi was acting at Nick's MTP... I thought Nick was F1, but his MTP date was first.... and maybe it was a combination of the impression Josh made on her family and her LCD with Josh that turned the tide... because for sure by Nick's LCD something was different.

I think this is probably the most haunting part for him.. what was real and what wasn't? If you watch the evening portion of the LCD and try to read her lips when there are VOs she is telling Nick about all his first and she repeats, be confident 3 more times. WTH is wrong with her?!

My husband noticed the look she gave him when she left his place that night - rewatch that look, it is "You are the one and I'm so excited to be engaged to you tomorrow" look. Seriously. Then, during the LCD she reassured him as you stated, and said something like, "Think of all that you have enjoyed" which I think referred to their being so intimate in the fantasy suite. The "be confident" and "it will be OK" over and over was totally to lead him on. I'm with you, what is wrong with her?

[nutty1]

Not to rehash the show, but I think on the MTP date and even more on the LCD, she wasn't into Nick at all, and it was so obvious. Body language said it all. In that one scene when she was kissing him, she was holding her braid, as if not to touch him at all.
I think she was still totally attracted to him at the FD (duh, I guess so!). But I still think she knew she'd be choosing Josh. Then she spent the FD with Josh and that was it. Now we have heard her & Josh talked about what engagement ring she'd want (where did that come from, anyway??). So by MTP & LCD, she was a goner for Josh. I think she was a goner from Josh from day 1, and as soon as she knew he was 100% in, there was no turning back.

[isittrue]

Not to rehash the show, but I think on the MTP date and even more on the LCD, she wasn't into Nick at all, and it was so obvious. Body language said it all. In that one scene when she was kissing him, she was holding her braid, as if not to touch him at all.
I think she was still totally attracted to him at the FD (duh, I guess so!). But I still think she knew she'd be choosing Josh. Then she spent the FD with Josh and that was it. Now we have heard her & Josh talked about what engagement ring she'd want (where did that come from, anyway??). So by MTP & LCD, she was a goner for Josh. I think she was a goner from Josh from day 1, and as soon as she knew he was 100% in, there was no turning back.

I agree with you, Nutty.  I actually noticed the look that passed between her and Josh at the FD rose ceremony and my heart sank for Nick.  Although, I was not willing to completely rule it out as being a figment of my imagination.  I just hated all the reassuring she gave Nick on LCD - totally unnecessary IMO.

Another thing that continues to bother me is the CH blog.  He seemed to almost leave his column musings open for a Mesnick.  The way he want on about being comfortable with something even when it's not right and how Nick was the relationship she was aspiring to, etc. etc.  I don't know if he used his blog to create doubt for the ending or if he genuinely believed Nick was the better choice or if perhaps he was giving encouragement to Nick as his column came out after the MTA when Nick was down in LA probably hoping Andi might have a change of heart. Of course, in his final column, he backtracked from everything he had said.

Such a wonky season, TBH, the finale is still very disturbing to me.  I don't think I can ever re-watch it again nor do I want to.  

[happygolucky]

I agree with Nutty. From day 1. Producers knew it, there was no surprise at the end. If there was any surprise of the season is Nick, a guy who nobody would bet on to arrive in F2. So TPTB and Andi made sure that Nick's journey would be planned for execution in style and a rich one (scenes, words). And they could afford it, because Nick has a vast vocabulary and there was never a boring moment with him.

[isittrue]

I agree with Nutty. From day 1. Producers knew it, there was no surprise at the end. If there was any surprise of the season is Nick, a guy who nobody would bet on to arrive in F2. So TPTB and Andi made sure that Nick's journey would be planned for execution in style and a rich one (scenes, words). And they could afford it, because Nick has a vast vocabulary and there was never a boring moment with him.

Yes, there was never a boring moment with Nick. I just find it sad if in fact he was used in that way by TPTB and Andi for entertainment purposes. It's a cruel show IMO.

[emad0722]

Not to rehash the show, but I think on the MTP date and even more on the LCD, she wasn't into Nick at all, and it was so obvious. Body language said it all. In that one scene when she was kissing him, she was holding her braid, as if not to touch him at all.
I think she was still totally attracted to him at the FD (duh, I guess so!). But I still think she knew she'd be choosing Josh. Then she spent the FD with Josh and that was it. Now we have heard her & Josh talked about what engagement ring she'd want (where did that come from, anyway??). So by MTP & LCD, she was a goner for Josh. I think she was a goner from Josh from day 1, and as soon as she knew he was 100% in, there was no turning back.

agreed 100%

[quietpal]

I'm wondering if all the blatant SM clues overshadowed the plane video, which is why Nick got more time on the ATFR show? After all, the plane video was not something he planned (done by some random person who decided to record him), but all those SM clues were definitely deliberate, IMO. I agree with others that something was strange when the couple only got a 10-minute segment where the proposal was not shown. After all, TPTB are looking for a proposal at the end of this silly show, which is what they got. Why not show it?
I just want to say that even though I haven't posted much on this thread, I do like the way Nick is handling himself post show and I've enjoyed his journey throughout the show. Love reading everyone's comments on here, btw.  

[quietpal]

I agree with Nutty. From day 1. Producers knew it, there was no surprise at the end. If there was any surprise of the season is Nick, a guy who nobody would bet on to arrive in F2. So TPTB and Andi made sure that Nick's journey would be planned for execution in style and a rich one (scenes, words). And they could afford it, because Nick has a vast vocabulary and there was never a boring moment with him.

  Very well said! He was prominent in every episode. This season would have been boring were it not for the Nick show.

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